D4 User Thread

[Light Machinery]

The red square AF indicators in the viewfinder are to indicate the AF sensor in use and the relative position of the AF sensor in the image.

Why is this so? You may ask?

Well the phase detect AF sensors reside in a module beneath the main reflex mirror and it views through the lens via semi reflective slot on the bottom of the main mirror and a sub mirror located behind the main mirror. AF sensors are not located in the viewfinder module.

The red sqaure AF indicators are projected via a LCD on to the viewfinder to indicate the AF sensor in use and its relative position in the image. Therefore the red square AF indicators may not 100% be in the position of where the real AF sensors are located in the image plane.

See here. These are the AF position indicators on my D4. Observe carefully how they are all skewed to the left.

All 51 AF sensor position


IMG_2396 by Light Machinery, on Flickr

The actual position of the AF sensors on my D4 are about 2/3 of a square to the right of the indicated red square. SO when I place the red square on the subjects eye, I shift the camera position by 2/3 of a square to the left.

Again you may ask if I have asked NSC about that? I did. If I insisted to have it to fixed they will strip up my D4 to work on the view finder. Anyway I left it as it for now and will have it fixed when it is due for a major service or shutter replacement.

You can also check if your D4 AF indicators are well centred by setting the AF to the AFC-S mode, use the centre sensor, find a subject with a sharp edge, press the shutter release halfway continuously and slowly swing your camera from the right of the frame to the indicated middle sensor and observe through the viewfinder when does the focus shifts and focuses on the sharp edge. Repeat from the test from the left, slowly swing the camera from the left and observe through the viewfinder when does the focus shifts and focuses on the sharp edge. You may notice that the camera will shift focus before the sharp edge even reaches the indicated red square or already in the red square halfway or more either from the right or left. So from this test it, will give you a rough position of where the actual AF sensor is positioned in the image plane of your D4.

Once you find out about this problem on your D4, don't despair. Even even you have unloaded a lot of $$$ for the D4, you are right to expect perfection but nothing is 100% perfect. Just use it to make beautiful pictures.

Some of my shots

Cockpit at the esplanade


DSC_0279 (147) by Light Machinery, on Flickr

Teochew opera


D4S_7630 by Light Machinery, on Flickr

Sunflower


D4S_6697 by Light Machinery, on Flickr

Seagull


D4K_2152 by Light Machinery, on Flickr

 

[zoom3]

@Light Machinery - I commend you for your patience to delay fixing this issue. I understand that this is not a critical issue for your typical shooting scenario but this is a major workmanship fault for a professional tool! Nikon should not be let of the hook so easily. If we have bought something like this for company use, it would have been returned immediately or exchanged for a properly working one.

 

[daredevil123]

Just sharing something on how your AF works... http://www.dphotojournal.com/focus-test-chart.pdf
The info inside is for a D70. Of course the D4 is a lot more advanced, and comes with more cross points, but you get the idea. The AF module can be out of alignment sometimes. And sometimes the AF sensor is actually slightly protrudiing from the AF-box/point you see in the screen.

 

[daredevil123]

To: Moderator,
I also find your topic of higher resolution is not as forgiving as those of 12MP interesting. Is there something I can read this up somewhere?

This came after I had a face to face, camera to camera discussion with a friend of mine who is using a D800, while having coffee in North Vietnam. He first mentioned that when he first used the D800, he has to start shooting at smaller apertures because the DoF is much thinner on the D800. After a long discussion with him and viewing some test shots, It is indeed true. straight face shots that used to work at F2.8 on a D700, now we can see that the other eye which is only slight off the plane, is starting to blur out when shot on a D800. Please note, these differences are viewed at 100% of the output from each cam. I also tried it out on my D4. While not as big a difference when compared to a D800 file, I can really see the difference in output compared to the output from my D700, which was with me also on that trip.

So this is what I see when viewing from 100%. When you downsize the images to match those from the D700, and add a tad of sharpening (very very little), the files look the same in terms of sharpness. I suspect you are viewing at 100% (on your PP screen), and due to focus and recompose, or subject/camera movement, maybe have some pics that are slightly off the focus plane. The larger size of the file will make it look more apparent. But if you downsize those files, most probably it is quite undetectable.

So not sure where I can point you to for reading. Maybe you can do a little googling. I suspect more people will talk about this with the D800, and I think that is the first place you should start looking.

Since I see some excellent pictures shared... I will share one as well. Look at the 100% crop... the left eye of the minority lady is already starting to get slightly OOF... This happens even with F2.8 at 122mm (not even 200mm). The focus is on her right eye (the eye closer to the camera).

D4 + 70-200VR2. Shot is not cropped at all.
Focal length= 122mm
Aperture = F2.8

100% crop, processed from RAW, no sharpening added (all sharpening in LR reduced to 0). Focus on her right eye.
Note her left eye already starting to get slightly OOF. And her left shoulder already OOF.

100% crop, direct output from JPEG Basic (I shoot RAW+Jpeg Basic). On Standard picture style (parameters default from camera)

 

[Zeckson Chow]

Thanks guys! That's a lot of information! I will slowly digest them!

 

[lenslust]

This came after I had a face to face, camera to camera discussion with a friend of mine who is using a D800, while having coffee in North Vietnam. He first mentioned that when he first used the D800, he has to start shooting at smaller apertures because the DoF is much thinner on the D800. After a long discussion with him and viewing some test shots, It is indeed true. straight face shots that used to work at F2.8 on a D700, now we can see that the other eye which is only slight off the plane, is starting to blur out when shot on a D800. Please note, these differences are viewed at 100% of the output from each cam. I also tried it out on my D4. While not as big a difference when compared to a D800 file, I can really see the difference in output compared to the output from my D700, which was with me also on that trip.

So this is what I see when viewing from 100%. When you downsize the images to match those from the D700, and add a tad of sharpening (very very little), the files look the same in terms of sharpness. I suspect you are viewing at 100% (on your PP screen), and due to focus and recompose, or subject/camera movement, maybe have some pics that are slightly off the focus plane. The larger size of the file will make it look more apparent. But if you downsize those files, most probably it is quite undetectable.

So not sure where I can point you to for reading. Maybe you can do a little googling. I suspect more people will talk about this with the D800, and I think that is the first place you should start looking.

Since I see some excellent pictures shared... I will share one as well. Look at the 100% crop... the left eye of the minority lady is already starting to get slightly OOF... This happens even with F2.8 at 122mm (not even 200mm). The focus is on her right eye (the eye closer to the camera).

D4 + 70-200VR2. Shot is not cropped at all.
Focal length= 122mm
Aperture = F2.8

100% crop, processed from RAW, no sharpening added (all sharpening in LR reduced to 0). Focus on her right eye.
Note her left eye already starting to get slightly OOF. And her left shoulder already OOF.

100% crop, direct output from JPEG Basic (I shoot RAW+Jpeg Basic). On Standard picture style (parameters default from camera)

This is similar when the D2X was released at 12MP.

The pixel density is larger on the sensor, so it became less forgiving as compared to a 6mp D100, D70 (back then). So I would expect the same for the D800 vs D4/D700 as the D800 has 200% more MP than the D700.

Even the D4@16mp is not very forgiving while using the 24-70@f/2.8. Slight misses and you can throw out the image.

 

[Zeckson Chow]

Sorry guys, I was reading all the posts again. I still don't quite understand what does it mean by "not so forgiving"... I am no technical expert, I just take the camera and use it as a tool to capture images that I like. At this juncture, I cannot relate the "not so forgiving" phrase with megapixel count... Heh heh heh...

 

[daredevil123]

Sorry guys, I was reading all the posts again. I still don't quite understand what does it mean by "not so forgiving"... I am no technical expert, I just take the camera and use it as a tool to capture images that I like. At this juncture, I cannot relate the "not so forgiving" phrase with megapixel count... Heh heh heh...

Just know the simple version: that mistakes and flaws will show up clearer on these new bodies. Just like a magnifying glass.

If still cannot relate, then just do some adjustments to your shooting till you find a workaround that you are comfortable with.

 

[daredevil123]

This is similar when the D2X was released at 12MP.

The pixel density is larger on the sensor, so it became less forgiving as compared to a 6mp D100, D70 (back then). So I would expect the same for the D800 vs D4/D700 as the D800 has 200% more MP than the D700.

Even the D4@16mp is not very forgiving while using the 24-70@f/2.8. Slight misses and you can throw out the image.

Yup. Every generation refresh, there will be a lot of complaints on sharpness. But a large fraction is actually shooting technique problems that are now shown much clearer and larger than before, especially when viewing at 100%

 

[Light Machinery]

Good evening to all D4 shooters on this thread.

After looking at the picture posted by "daredevil123", especially the full image and the two cropped image :thumbsup:, it looks like the D4 shooting technique is much more technical :sweat: than what I am used to on the D700. Anyway I am still getting into the grove with it after shooting with it for about 3 quarters.

Hi daredevil123. May I ask, how far were you from the subject when you took the picture?

As for the question why I didn't want to get the AF indicators fixed:

1. Well age and experience taught me not to chase for perfection of minor defects in a camera that doesn't effect its overall function.

2. I didn't want my D4 to be operated on by service techs that maybe just freshly trained on the D4 series, again coming from experience.

I have been doing some of my own research here and DPR, there is a SG D4 user who has been suffering endless AF problem with his D4 and it was never really solved by NSC , he commented that NSC even sent it back to JP and he said that Nikon JP checked and it was in spec!

I truly feel his pain :cry: when I read about it.

 

[Zeckson Chow]

there is a SG D4 user who has been suffering endless AF problem with his D4 and it was never really solved by NSC , he commented that NSC even sent it back to JP and he said that Nikon JP checked and it was in spec!

I truly feel his pain :cry: when I read about it.

I think I know who he is... He just came back from Vietnam.

 

[daredevil123]

Good evening to all D4 shooters on this thread.

After looking at the picture posted by "daredevil123", especially the full image and the two cropped image :thumbsup:, it looks like the D4 shooting technique is much more technical :sweat: than what I am used to on the D700. Anyway I am still getting into the grove with it after shooting with it for about 3 quarters.

Hi daredevil123. May I ask, how far were you from the subject when you took the picture?

As for the question why I didn't want to get the AF indicators fixed:

1. Well age and experience taught me not to chase for perfection of minor defects in a camera that doesn't effect its overall function.

2. I didn't want my D4 to be operated on by service techs that maybe just freshly trained on the D4 series, again coming from experience.

I have been doing some of my own research here and DPR, there is a SG D4 user who has been suffering endless AF problem with his D4 and it was never really solved by NSC , he commented that NSC even sent it back to JP and he said that Nikon JP checked and it was in spec!

I truly feel his pain :cry: when I read about it.

I believe the subject is roughly around 10 meters away.

Actually, shooting with the D4 doesn't necessarily need to be that technical. But I always believe as photographers it is always in our favor to know our tools well. In the end, it really depends on what you do with the picture. Even when printed large, if view from a comfortable viewing distance to see the entire picture, I am sure no viewer can tell the difference.

 

[UncleFai]

I was at a camera store in JB ("the usual place") chatting with the store guy on a slow day. He says that nearly every D4 he sold had to be sent back to Nikon for focusing issue. Some even more than once. And even that often don't fix the problem.

 

[daredevil123]

I was at a camera store in JB ("the usual place") chatting with the store guy on a slow day. He says that nearly every D4 he sold had to be sent back to Nikon for focusing issue. Some even more than once. And even that often don't fix the problem.

The early batch I heard, because of the left AF point issue. And the D4 is not really moving much over there. Only a few sets sold in the "usual place"

 

[surrephoto]

Hi friends... regarding the guy who has suffered for almost a year with a D4 with left side AF (or asymmetrical) focusing issue, that would be me.

I have previously been afriad to post here due to 3 reasons, 1. I was still hoping to resell it & get a new set, 2. I have been non-civil in the past in Nikon sub-forums regarding some things, don't wanna harm myself or stir stuff anymore 3. If I allegedly say that the Nikon D4 is defective, It might develop into an international lawsuit and I do not want to harm anyone in CS.

Dear moderators, am I allowed to share my vv long and dramatic story here? If I am I will start to speak. To be honest, heart & head damn pain & stress loaded after 11 mths of not being able to solve the issue, and also guilt that if I sell this camera, I would hurt a 2nd person. It's vv difficult and hope bro/sis here can understand. Nikon still believes everything is within specs...

 

[stevepow]

Hi friends... regarding the guy who has suffered for almost a year with a D4 with left side AF (or asymmetrical) focusing issue, that would be me.

I have previously been afriad to post here due to 3 reasons, 1. I was still hoping to resell it & get a new set, 2. I have been non-civil in the past in Nikon sub-forums regarding some things, don't wanna harm myself or stir stuff anymore 3. If I allegedly say that the Nikon D4 is defective, It might develop into an international lawsuit and I do not want to harm anyone in CS.

Dear moderators, am I allowed to share my vv long and dramatic story here? If I am I will start to speak. To be honest, heart & head damn pain & stress loaded after 11 mths of not being able to solve the issue, and also guilt that if I sell this camera, I would hurt a 2nd person. It's vv difficult and hope bro/sis here can understand. Nikon still believes everything is within specs...

You got a lemon

 

[surrephoto]

You got a lemon

Then someone probably purchased florida's naturals and has a lemon farm somewhere. Really wish to talk more but I wait for moderator to approve my sharing first.

 

[UncleFai]

Then someone probably purchased florida's naturals and has a lemon farm somewhere. Really wish to talk more but I wait for moderator to approve my sharing first.

The salesman (even though he sells all sorts of brands) was persuading me to switch system. "The other side" has no such issue.

 

[Luminare]

Nice sales tactic by the salesman

The salesman (even though he sells all sorts of brands) was persuading me to switch system. "The other side" has no such issue.

 

[UncleFai]

Nice sales tactic by the salesman

Does it make any diff to him whether he is selling one brand or another? Probably not.