creative/intellectual critiques and info

[I_AM]

Initially dont really wanna be involved in this, but i think i have to say something.

IMHO, i think that to want to critique a person's work, an individual must have already attained a certain level of skills in the field he is in.

Just like in photography, i feel, and only persoanlly feel, that if i were to want to critique a master's work, i would want to be at the same level as the master first, if not, whatever i say will, i think, be treated as rubbish.

Most of the photographers here, i think, are still amatuers and not really ready to be talking about works that have far surpressed theirs. I think it would just hinder their development in learning photography.

Ex, i think you are still a brave soul to bring this topic up, but really, CS might not be the forum. Basically, you are like talking about digital vs film here. Just as dangerous.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers.

 

[Scriabinesque]

Ten years ago when I started photography as a hobby in secondary school, I admired long lenses and powerful camera bodies. Now ten years later, after majoring in photography and having tested out most of the top-end equipment (mind you, including Phase One digital technology) that was made available to us students, I admired photographers for their eyes and brains and didn't care whatever rickety cameras they had with lenses that came from god-knows-where the glass is made.

The mind is the most valuable piece of equipment that I have known. For anything else, you can have your platinum card. (Maybe a pair of golden lips, together with your mind so you could talk your way through to coax the client to buying your work if that particular piece happens to be lousier than your usual output)

 

[excentrique]

Originally posted by I_AM
IMHO, i think that to want to critique a person's work, an individual must have already attained a certain level of skills in the field he is in.

Just like in photography, i feel, and only persoanlly feel, that if i were to want to critique a master's work, i would want to be at the same level as the master first, if not, whatever i say will, i think, be treated as rubbish.

Most of the photographers here, i think, are still amatuers and not really ready to be talking about works that have far surpressed theirs. I think it would just hinder their development in learning photography.
Cheers.

Well, I understand your worries. Not trying to sound offensive but Seriously, people who fear of making mistake will be bigger failures. By not being able to accept critism, how then can one learn to accept mistakes, and bigger mistakes in life? Don't underestimate the abilties of new blood. That include yourself and others. If some of us are already willing to help, why should there even be hesitation.

 

[Scriabinesque]

**puts on fireproof suit**
go ahead. laugh and retort.

 

[Adam Goi]

Originally posted by Scriabinesque
**puts on fireproof suit**
go ahead. laugh and retort.

:bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[denizenx]

wah so much traffic while I work...
anyway I just didn't like your way of saying that in the FIRST msg... I might be reading toomuch between the lines, but I didn't like the insinuations.
Maybe not all of CS, but like me esp, I feel this is a homey community to hang out. So other than the occasional grunt of encouragement, I rarely feel enough impulse or skill to give my insight on a picture. and i think 80% is like me..
also, initially there was an undercurrent of elitism in CS, where newbies are generally talked down to. I feel that has been, safe to say, eradicated, and the masses are pouring in happily.
and, like they say, the elite dun mix with the dirty unwashed masses, and having "pro" critique forum might again cause the sedimentation of "elite" ppl, who might become obnoxious and overly critical of newbie work.
migh be unfounded but I have seen this happen in a school club and another forum on something else...

so I think a new advanced forum is good, but enough guidelines must tell and warn the newbie that it will be harsh and highly critical, as there shd be enough disclaimers such that we dun get anymore "open air" complaints and grouses about ppl who pick on small things. This *will* be worse than BMT...
then can ask Kit back.. I think he's back in sg right? selling his stuff in offstone...

Generally I think the Critique Section was made for this? for somehow the lack of clearer guidelines had it degenerate into another share forum..

how's this? or have I tread into a fiery pit?

 

[excentrique]

Originally posted by denizenx
also, initially there was an undercurrent of elitism in CS, where newbies are generally talked down to. I feel that has been, safe to say, eradicated, and the masses are pouring in happily.
and, like they say, the elite dun mix with the dirty unwashed masses, and having "pro" critique forum might again cause the sedimentation of "elite" ppl, who might become obnoxious and overly critical of newbie work.
migh be unfounded but I have seen this happen in a school club and another forum on something else...

so I think a new advanced forum is good, but enough guidelines must tell and warn the newbie that it will be harsh and highly critical, as there shd be enough disclaimers such that we dun get anymore "open air" complaints and grouses about ppl who pick on small things. This *will* be worse than BMT...
then can ask Kit back.. I think he's back in sg right? selling his stuff in offstone...
\

Well, I think it's not only about criting of member's work. The thing is that there should be more exposure to good photography. The new sub forum should also allow people to talk about works they like or dislike from a particular photographer in the strait times, magnum photographer etc... The reason for their reaction or feelings. They can also reflect on how it influence the way they shoot.

Hereby I apologise to you personally if my words are offensive to you. It was never meant to be like this in the first place.

 

[denizenx]

maybe can revamp the current critique section.. as for serious intellectual discussion, it's not easy as usually a thread would degenerate into inane chatter... ;p which is why I suspect the technical section and the general review section were merged..
BUT maybe can have a showcase section? or just re-use the current ones? imho too many forums already

maybe like everytime u have someone n his/her work to showcase u make it sticky for a mth/week etc...

 

[rueyloon]

slightly Off Topic

actually I tot we can have something like "critique of the week", where 1 person's work, a few person's work is chosen and then critiqued by a few more experienced photographers......... from probably a few from a few different angles.

 

[Adam Goi]

Originally posted by rueyloon
slightly Off Topic

actually I tot we can have something like "critique of the week", where 1 person's work, a few person's work is chosen and then critiqued by a few more experienced photographers......... from probably a few from a few different angles.

Ah...idea!

 

[shawntim]

excentrique,

the time is never ripe, like you say, but like denizenx said, the degree of elitism in Clubsnap is still very high (although its getting a little more used to now). I also get this vibe that the more experienced photographers are getting a little complacent?

I like to post in the Critique forum because I really depend on other's critiques to improve. What is the only unique criteria that I can identify there? - POST ONLY 1 PHOTO - that's it. Because we can see critiques and :thumbsup: all over the photo galleries.

Another reason is that people tend to get a little defensive over their photos. It ends up having critiques that are taken quite personally sometimes. Rarely, if the person defends what others felt as erroneous, would he get a better understanding or better critique. And the forumers can read. They know exactly what kind of response that they'll get if they post.

Good critiques are hard and time-consuming to write. But we all learn from mimicking and learning from the (macro) experts right? I personally like Jed's recent photos because they are different: I might not be able to see similiar things in Singapore (like crosses beside roads); I've seen enough travelogues to feel some of the travel photos a little mundane for their pictures of pagodas, buildings etc etc (but still good photography!).

I've seen the thread that you posted regarding the photo of the mother bathing her deformed child, deformed due to nuclear radiation. I thought that your critique offered something more interesting that I don't read elsewhere like golden areas, where eyes line of sight crosses etc.

I learnt more from 1 good photo critque than an entire month of "homey community" at Clubsnap. Really, who in this forum will take such emotional pictures? Maybe some of them have, but haven't posted. If it's something promising like what you posted, then I'd like to see it. But I think you should also work to redefine the Critique corner to prevent it from becoming a degenerative forum.

 

[excentrique]

Originally posted by rueyloon
slightly Off Topic

actually I tot we can have something like "critique of the week", where 1 person's work, a few person's work is chosen and then critiqued by a few more experienced photographers......... from probably a few from a few different angles.

probably you might even take a work from professionals to talk about it by various more experienced photographers. Works that are controversial, or alternatives can be discuss too. Maybe a picture used in an advertisment. It need not be solely discussion on fine arts photography. As long as there is use of the photographic medium to convey a message, be it in media form or fine arts, people should be free to discuss.

 

[excentrique]

Originally posted by shawntim


I learnt more from 1 good photo critque than an entire month of "homey community" at Clubsnap. Really, who in this forum will take such emotional pictures? Maybe some of them have, but haven't posted. If it's something promising like what you posted, then I'd like to see it.

I'm glad to know that my efforts have not been wasted.

 

[denizenx]

so the call to arms has been raised.. NATO or PAP?

 

[excentrique]

Originally posted by denizenx
so the call to arms has been raised.. NATO or PAP?

Well from the poll now, it seems that slightly more people is interested with the idea. It's a small amount of poll though.

 

[denizenx]

Originally posted by excentrique


Well from the poll now, it seems that slightly more people is interested with the idea. It's a small amount of poll though.

well do what US do... implement and ignore the masses ;p
can just try lor.. if it lessay degenerates into another banal talk forum in a mth, then hasta la vista...
but since it's so-called academic discourse, there should be a MO for Asbestos Suit +4... and we need more than 1 moderator...

 

[togu]

What's going to happen to the critique corner then?

 

[denizenx]

Originally posted by togu
What's going to happen to the critique corner then?

I think retain lor... just stricter guidelines to eliminate the wrong freq.. to share fren-fren style dun post here, else it'd be bbq'd and can't cry abt it...

 

[denizenx]

Originally posted by shawntim
I've seen the thread that you posted regarding the photo of the mother bathing her deformed child, deformed due to nuclear radiation. I thought that your critique offered something more interesting that I don't read elsewhere like golden areas, where eyes line of sight crosses etc.

I learnt more from 1 good photo critque than an entire month of "homey community" at Clubsnap. Really, who in this forum will take such emotional pictures? Maybe some of them have, but haven't posted. If it's something promising like what you posted, then I'd like to see it. But I think you should also work to redefine the Critique corner to prevent it from becoming a degenerative forum.

yeah the use of terms are more studied than casual, eg who's heard of bokeh in everyday life? bouquet lah...
so requires the critic to be well-versed, although a glossary might come in handy as well...

homey community has nothing to do with photo critique , it's just how some view/use the forum.. it can be a Bash-the-Bush forum for all we care..

maybe critique can be invited in degrees, like Doom.
- How's this? (friendly comments)
- What's missing? (ways to improve, some nit-picking)
- Slaughter my pride! (fwah take my picture and burn man!)

 

[excentrique]

Originally posted by denizenx


I think retain lor... just stricter guidelines to eliminate the wrong freq.. to share fren-fren style dun post here, else it'd be bbq'd and can't cry abt it...

I agree with this point. critique should be retained. Is either we modify it or we have a new section where we can just 'study' pictures. It need not necessary to be just members work. But pictures from well known photographers as well. The idea is to create more exposure possiblities to different types of works, and the differect aspects of criting a work.