Competitive

[vince123123]

Yeap probably true, however the difference between balanced and unbalanced audio usually only makes an impact on long wire runs. I think it only takes 5cm of wire from the beachtek to the videocam.

Maybe one day shd test out - from what I know, for extremely short wire runs like this case, you won't be able to discern any difference in a blind test.

And I noticed you mentioned on a few occasions abt whether audio si impt or not, that's not what I'm discussing - obviously it is important. I'm discussing whehter you can discern a difference between the two.

hi, thanks for sharing your tots n knowledge.
I am sorry tat i cant commends on the audio algorithm of the 2 diff cat of camera as i have not read and compare them.

Mic is very important, but good audio not just depends on the mic alone, a good recording device is also important.

XLR input is balanced input.. signal to noise ratio better.

for a production tat audio is important, a "clean' audio is needed with min of unwanted noise. as wat i mentioned B4, unless your audio is not important, then of cos u can use beachtec or signvideo as a subsitute for your audio..

jus my tot

 

[sundazz]

Yeap probably true, however the difference between balanced and unbalanced audio usually only makes an impact on long wire runs. I think it only takes 5cm of wire from the beachtek to the videocam.

Maybe one day shd test out - from what I know, for extremely short wire runs like this case, you won't be able to discern any difference in a blind test.

And I noticed you mentioned on a few occasions abt whether audio si impt or not, that's not what I'm discussing - obviously it is important. I'm discussing whehter you can discern a difference between the two.

for a little sharing here.. i think.. not oni longer the cable will pick up more noise, but oso i think.. (i really means i think) if to go to the extrame, calculation of the correct cable length oso determine the audio, think something to do with the phase, (study b4, forgot liao:embrass: ) anyway i may be wrong on this, correct me if i am wrong..

and cant really say whether can tell the diff or not lor, it depends on the recording process itself too.. any unwanted noise will be bring up lor if using the mini jack and in the case u will kow the diff.

but my tot is if u shooting something tat audio is important, like drama, interview shoot, on air video, etc is not so advisable lor. but wedding (lots of ambient noise), corporate video (usually got VO) then maybe shd not be too worry lor.

and well, maybe is good to do a test side by side, and let me know the result tat u find..

 

[Hobbes00]

I'm gettin abit lost in this conversation over here.

lenght of cable means more resistance. It will affect the audio alittle but its almost impossible to tell the difference unless you are talking about afew metres

I think we started this audio conversation from "using a cheaper cam + a good mic = good videos"

To be honest, I agree that it is possible to make good videos with cheaper camcorders.
But will you risk the situation where your event venue lacks the desired lighting condition?
Will you risk if your subject is pretty far away and you cant zoom in?
Stuff like that is a reason why people invest more in a camera - BESIDES picture quality

For the audio issue, I believe getting a better mic and several equipment will suffice.

And last of all it depends on the kind of event you are shooting.

 

[vince123123]

Yeap, I agree that picture quality and zoom n all will be better with a better cam. My only point raised in discussion was when a semi/pro cam was stated as a necessity in order to get superior audio. After discussion, it was found that the only difference is an XLR/balanced vs 1/4" unbalanced input and not so much the cam. The assumption is that the mic used for both is the same (or else obviously an external mic is going to beat the consumer cam's in built mic).

The question now remains for testing is whether balanced audio is discernably better than unbalanced audio over very short runs.

I'm gettin abit lost in this conversation over here.

lenght of cable means more resistance. It will affect the audio alittle but its almost impossible to tell the difference unless you are talking about afew metres

I think we started this audio conversation from "using a cheaper cam + a good mic = good videos"

To be honest, I agree that it is possible to make good videos with cheaper camcorders.
But will you risk the situation where your event venue lacks the desired lighting condition?
Will you risk if your subject is pretty far away and you cant zoom in?
Stuff like that is a reason why people invest more in a camera - BESIDES picture quality

For the audio issue, I believe getting a better mic and several equipment will suffice.

And last of all it depends on the kind of event you are shooting.

 

[shojibake]

There's probably not much of a difference between the balanced and unbalanced for short runs, but if you're attached to a monitor or are powered by mains, there can possibly be ground loops, in which case a balanced cable is the answer.

In either case the really tok gong way is to bypass the motor hum of the camera and go for external solid state recorders.

But the easiest is just to get a relatively inexpensive microphone and attach it to your cam, balanced or unbalanced.

 

[sundazz]

yeah hobbes, we are rather dragging abit away from the original discussion.. which actually talking abt competitive.. but guess some technical aspect that worth discussing.. no problem, it is healthy discussion here..

well, infact i agreed tat all u guys have your point..
but my concern is depending on what kind of productions u are doing.. if drama, interview recording, or anything that audio is crucial, then it is safer to use balanced signal.. do not take chance.. especially u are interviewing "big Shot".. u may not tell much diff if u are not for on air or broadcast.. but the chances of picking up unwanted noise is higher... so my point is depends on what u are using it for, not always the case that a audio / video "pro" equipment can easily replace by adding in additional equip to enhace.. anyway if u are to purchase additional ehancing equip, i think it is more a worth to pay for something aredy built in. less electronic device.. less noise..

jus my tots

 

[sundazz]

There's probably not much of a difference between the balanced and unbalanced for short runs, but if you're attached to a monitor or are powered by mains, there can possibly be ground loops, in which case a balanced cable is the answer.

In either case the really tok gong way is to bypass the motor hum of the camera and go for external solid state recorders.

totally agree w u..

But the easiest is just to get a relatively inexpensive microphone and attach it to your cam, balanced or unbalanced

if it is just use for wedding shoot, event coverage then it is fine.. to me i think not advisible for using for audio which is crucial for the production as what i mentioned earlier.

 

[vince123123]

I suppose if you are doing productions, such as dramas, interviews, film clips, I won't even use an onboard mic, whether on a semi-pro or otherwise. The on-cam mic which you stick on your semi pro will be way inadequate for this purpose anyway.

I always assumed we were talking about event coverage.

 

[sundazz]

I suppose if you are doing productions, such as dramas, interviews, film clips, I won't even use an onboard mic, whether on a semi-pro or otherwise. The on-cam mic which you stick on your semi pro will be way inadequate for this purpose anyway.

I always assumed we were talking about event coverage.

oh.. i am thinking of a camera that can cater me for events shoot and other shoot like interviews, drama, etc. guess u will buy something tat can provide u for multi use rather then just good enough for event shoot tat within your budget.

yes.. for audio crucial shoot like drama, interview, we will use wired clip mic, and or boom with gun, then to audio mixer, strictly no onbord mic or cam mic... and not forgetting need to feed to camera audio in which here i defined as XLR balanced input.

maybe different people have different way of getting the job done. and maybe everyone has their own confortable way of working around with equip.. :dunno:

for me is tat i wont take any chance for productions tat audio is crucial in this case..

well, anyway i thanks for your sharing and toughts..

and a small request.. can we switch our topic here back to competitive which i think it is more worth a discussion which actually affect our biz?

thx.

 

[litl3boy]

Hi, I am looking for a sincere videographer who can do a decent job on our wedding event which split onto 2 days.

1)Tea ceromony on 30Mar07(Sat) starts 7am to noon.
2)Actual Day on 1Apr07 lunch ballroom banquet(Sun)

If you have any reasonable videography package to offer pls email your quotation to me at e_x_pert@yahoo.com.sg

Freelancers are welcome.

Thank you very much.


Regards,

Yeo

 

[GhostSG]

Hey guys,

Guess being videographers here we must maintain the price. Its a matter of survival as a trade/ service of skills in Singapore man.

I dun think the price should not even go anyway below SGD500 at all, looking at the amount of work we do. If anyone is doing it for hobby or part-time :dunno: who is trying to try and charge below SGD500;they should at least join some professional guys to shoot and learn at the same time under proper guidance.

Otherwise, our market will get the bad name I heard and seen so many wedding couples who take up those super cheap spoil-market type:think: and the couples get super cheap results and there are threads of discussions on some wedding websites are against videographers as a whole instead of pin-pointing at those who spoil the market.

And for those media trained students who are good:lovegrin: - dun cheapen yourselves - go with the market rate lah.

As for the audio, interviews and the malay wedding NICA etc, should use external boom mics and even wireless mics are good if you have it.:thumbsup:

www.heevproduction.com

 

[sundazz]

hmm.. doctors and lawyers need professional certication and few years of practise b4 they can really qualify. Professional Engineers have certication b4 they are called professional.. There are Adobe cerified, microsoft certified, etc.. etc..

:think:jus some tots.. just wonder if we have some sort of licence or some certication or endorement before they are qualified to do the job will help? form a committee.. get recognised.. pro to registered, certified and endorsed by the committee. with the recognation probably cusumers will be more willing to pay more rather then getting a "amarture" to do the job. just like some "Safety Mark" on your electrical appliances.. well, just my tots.. :dunno:

 

[DXNMedia]

Bro Sundazz,

I totally agree with your point of the industry being too competitive. Our market here is just too small.

I've done some research and these "certifications" or unions or clubs, etc... won't work.
What can you do to other newbies who just wanna make a quick buck out of this particular job? They're not in the professional union, so what can u do to them?

I can anytime undercut anyone or any production company out there to produce a feature or corporate and still produce a top quality work...but question is, it is worth my time to do so?


I think I am quite pleased that everyone who contributed to this thread reacted very very positively and everyone knew about the issues we're facing in the video production & post production industry. This alone is a very very positive sign! :thumbsup:

I hope we can all start to push up our rates to the 'industry' standard level, and perhaps bro Sundazz's cafe can be a host to a list of video professionals with a standard rate chart.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[samvision]

Bro Sundazz,

I totally agree with your point of the industry being too competitive. Our market here is just too small.

I've done some research and these "certifications" or unions or clubs, etc... won't work.
What can you do to other newbies who just wanna make a quick buck out of this particular job? They're not in the professional union, so what can u do to them?

I can anytime undercut anyone or any production company out there to produce a feature or corporate and still produce a top quality work...but question is, it is worth my time to do so?


I think I am quite pleased that everyone who contributed to this thread reacted very very positively and everyone knew about the issues we're facing in the video production & post production industry. This alone is a very very positive sign! :thumbsup:

I hope we can all start to push up our rates to the 'industry' standard level, and perhaps bro Sundazz's cafe can be a host to a list of video professionals with a standard rate chart.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

sound good. when is the next meeting ?

 

[sundazz]

ok, seems like we have quite a number of us on the same track. let me kick starts..
why not we meet up at my cafe this sunday afternoon.
we can share our view in the industry and see if we can develop from there..
we can also get a chance to know each other.. at the same time can give cafe f'stop some support too..
And DXNMedia, i hope to hear more regards abt your suggestion too..

Date: 28 Dec 2007
time: 2pm
place: Cafe f'stop (17 / 19 South Bridge Road)


1.) Sundazz (Jensen)
2.)
3.)
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.
.
.
.
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[devilboy]

Hey guys,

Guess being videographers here we must maintain the price. Its a matter of survival as a trade/ service of skills in Singapore man.

I dun think the price should not even go anyway below SGD500 at all, looking at the amount of work we do. If anyone is doing it for hobby or part-time :dunno: who is trying to try and charge below SGD500;they should at least join some professional guys to shoot and learn at the same time under proper guidance.

Otherwise, our market will get the bad name I heard and seen so many wedding couples who take up those super cheap spoil-market type:think: and the couples get super cheap results and there are threads of discussions on some wedding websites are against videographers as a whole instead of pin-pointing at those who spoil the market.

And for those media trained students who are good:lovegrin: - dun cheapen yourselves - go with the market rate lah.

As for the audio, interviews and the malay wedding NICA etc, should use external boom mics and even wireless mics are good if you have it.:thumbsup:

www.heevproduction.com

Some people out there still thinks videography is as simple as shoot-burn-watch....
1) Shooting the event is tiring, we move from one point to another... sometimes we risk our lives doing vehicle convoy shots... hahahaha...
2) Retrieve the avi from the system is another taxing work on your computer, not to forget time consuming
3) Editing alone will eat your whole day, you still have to match the music track to the video
4) Designing Slipsheet and DVD cover requires good creativity

Life is tough as a videographer, but who the "F" care... In Singapore, everyone expects good/cheap/excellent services... hahahaha

 

[ilovehouse]

Some people out there still thinks videography is as simple as shoot-burn-watch....
1) Shooting the event is tiring, we move from one point to another... sometimes we risk our lives doing vehicle convoy shots... hahahaha...
2) Retrieve the avi from the system is another taxing work on your computer, not to forget time consuming
3) Editing alone will eat your whole day, you still have to match the music track to the video
4) Designing Slipsheet and DVD cover requires good creativity

Life is tough as a videographer, but who the "F" care... In Singapore, everyone expects good/cheap/excellent services... hahahaha

LIfe is tough as a freelancer. it really sucks. but then, glad i moved on and seen more of the world.

 

[Faiz]

As for the audio, interviews and the malay wedding NICA etc, should use external boom mics and even wireless mics are good if you have it.:thumbsup:


Wah.... wireless ah? so serious ah? juz buy a decent boom mic or the other choice will be the Ice Cream mic lah ....... not practical to use wireless or lavalier coz the sound is kinda clean and i'm sure the groom will 4get his using a lavalier or wiress in the end u got broken lav cables !

juz my 2 cents lah

 

[Faiz]

Bro sundazz sunday again ah??????????? would love to come but sunday seem impossible to me lah bro !

 

[Shawn The Farmer]

wedding video is like doing retail if you know what i mean