Canon Rebel Xsi Club - 450D Only

[gman23xx]

I just got my 450D lately. Great camera..:bsmilie:

Welcome to the club


gman

 

[glay123]

Err...lol....there's no such thing as a xxxD format camera cannot take better lenses. The 450D can take both EF lenses and EF-S lenses. The 450D can fit these 2 category lenses. Your friend is kinda wrong actually. I think what he's trying to say that, different series of camera has better performance. Like if you compare a 50D to a 450D, the 50D has better noise control. Since you are starting out, i don't really think it's worth it to start of with a higher series camera. The 450D is an above entry level camera. It's really good. Do remember one thing, the camera body can be of a decent range, but it's the lenses that always do the trick.


Invest in a body that you feel is comfortable, then invest on better lenses. Rather then to buy a expensive body, with sub-par lenses, is pretty useless. Unless you really want good noise control, high capture rate and other performance, then you have to get the more expensive body.


With the recent economy, i advise, buy a camera that is useful. Doesn't need to be the expensive ones. A 450D is just nice for starters. Infact it is a little hard to use for totally new people. But if you practice and learn hard, the camera will be very easy to use.


Investment on the lens is most important. Some point in life you would out grow the 1st camera you bought and most likely buy a higher end series, so no point getting the high end series now and struggle with it. The lens will remain with you for life, provided that you maintain it.


And the lens aperture that you stated above is from the kit lens. The kit lens is just for you to start out. You will need to invest on lenses. If you want, you can get the body alone and purchase your own preferred lens separately.


Take care. And not to worry...most people at this club are very friendly.


gman

bro gman!
I knew I would get a fast, swift and friendly reply from the club members to guide me along, hence I am not afraid to ask my noob questions. Im sure I will be useful some day down the road, helping other newbies :bsmilie:

Have some questions here too, hope you dont mind. Just take a look when you are free
1) So do you mean to say that for a 350D camera (I checked the lowest F number is 4.5), when fitted with a say 17-55mm/f2.8, I can still maximize the potential of the lenses (F2.8) and not 4.5?

2) Whats the difference between EF lenses and EF-S lenses? I tried to look up the threads here and went to wiki, but I do not quite understand the technicalities of the explanation, maybe you can give me a simpler lay-man explanation?

3) Last but not least (for now:sweat what are the recommended "starter" lens to purchase if I decide to go with just the 450D body (or maybe the kit lens bundle)? I know different people have different recommendations and views, but just a very generic one. From my readings, I understand that a "typical" setup would be a

1. kit lens 2. zoom lens 3. prime (macro?) lens? Pls correct me if im wrong, i wan to learn!

Also, my budget is not alot, hopefully below 1k per lens bah. I know the theory of "you pay peanuts you get monkeys" but I think there are certain really must-buy "value-for-money" lens? :bsmilie:

THANKS!!!
glay123

 

[hammie]

http://photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/ check this out

 

[gman23xx]

bro gman!
I knew I would get a fast, swift and friendly reply from the club members to guide me along, hence I am not afraid to ask my noob questions. Im sure I will be useful some day down the road, helping other newbies :bsmilie:

Have some questions here too, hope you dont mind. Just take a look when you are free
1) So do you mean to say that for a 350D camera (I checked the lowest F number is 4.5), when fitted with a say 17-55mm/f2.8, I can still maximize the potential of the lenses (F2.8) and not 4.5?

2) Whats the difference between EF lenses and EF-S lenses? I tried to look up the threads here and went to wiki, but I do not quite understand the technicalities of the explanation, maybe you can give me a simpler lay-man explanation?

3) Last but not least (for now:sweat what are the recommended "starter" lens to purchase if I decide to go with just the 450D body (or maybe the kit lens bundle)? I know different people have different recommendations and views, but just a very generic one. From my readings, I understand that a "typical" setup would be a

1. kit lens 2. zoom lens 3. prime (macro?) lens? Pls correct me if im wrong, i wan to learn!

Also, my budget is not alot, hopefully below 1k per lens bah. I know the theory of "you pay peanuts you get monkeys" but I think there are certain really must-buy "value-for-money" lens? :bsmilie:

THANKS!!!
glay123

Haha...no problem friend...i think you got your concept wrong.


The f-stop numbers...such as f2.8, or f4.5...it's not inside the camera...the camera has nothing to do with it at all. The camera only holds the sensor the mirror and all the "technology"...haha..


So what does the f-stop number refer to. It refers to the aperture inside a lens. Lets say if i have a 18-55mm kit lens with a spec of f3.5-5.6....it refers to the aperture ring inside the lens. How big or small it can open. Aperture ring affects the amount of light that can travel through the lens and into the camera. If you have a smaller aperture number like f2.8, your aperture is opened to the widest and it can allow alot of light to pass through.


I suggest that you don't interfere with the aperture and shutter theory for now. Try to absorb the basic principles first, then i'll explain to you how the shutter and aperture work together.


Answer to your question:


1) You still can use the lens at f2.8 That would be the maximum you can open the aperture ring.


2) Errmm to this question i will make a table for you to read..so it'll be easier.


3) Haha....well this is up to individual preference. Well for me when i started off with the 450D i got it with the 18-55mm kit lens, 55-250mm telephoto lens and a 50 f1.8 prime lens. You can see below my post, there's a list of equipment i own..haha..


Price wise, kit lens comes as a bundle with the camera...so you have to check with the store. Roughly ranges between $1180-$1299


55-250mm telephoto lens cost roughly around $350-$400...depends where you get it from.


50mm f1.8 prime lens..about $200...not sure about this...check with the store.


Take care.


gman

 

[gman23xx]

EF-S lenses. These lenses fit only on xxxD cameras and xxD cameras. Such as the 450D or the 50D. However do take note that they do not fit on very old model xxD cameras


EF Lenses. These lenses fit on all cameras. Be it xxxD formats or xxD formats or the xD format. Such as the 450D or the 50D or the 5D.


So what is the difference between a xxxD format or xxD format or xD format? The differences are in their performance and the most important is the sensor crop ratio.


xxxD and xxD formats, such as 450D and the 50D use a 1.6 times crop sensor. That means the image produced is slightly smaller than a conventional 35mm film camera.


xD formats such as the 1D, 1D Mark II, 1D Mark IIn, ID Mark III use a 1.3 times crop sensor. That means the image produced is very slightly smaller than a conventional 35mm film camera.


xD formats such as the 5D, 5D Mark II, 1Ds, 1Ds Mark II, 1Ds Mark III use a full frame sensor. That means the image produced is almost the same size as a conventional 35mm film camera.


The crop difference is due to the different sensors used in the different formats of the camera.


So how does it affect your lenses?


For example. lets take a 18-55mm lens.


If you pair this lens with a xxxD/xxD format camera which uses a 1.6 times crop sensor, your effective range on your lens would be multiplied by 1.6 So that adds up to your lens serving like a 28.8-88mm lens.


If you pair this lens with a xD format camera which uses a 1.3 times crop sensor, your effective range on your lens would be multiplied by 1.3 So that adds up to your lens serving like a 23.4-71.5mm lens.



If you pair this lens with a xD format camera which uses a full frame sensor, your effective range on your lens would remain the same. The range would be still 18-55mm.


So what does this range mean.


Taking a 18-55mm lens as reference. The number 18mm is widest that the lens can capture. Your field of view is the widest. The lower this value, you can capture more into the image.

The number 55mm is the most narrow and it zooms into the subject. The higher this value, you can capture a closer image, but your field of view is very narrow.


Hope it helps. Next Topic would be on Apertures and Shutters.


And if i made any mistakes please pardon me. Other users are welcomed to rectify my mistakes. Thanks


gman

 

[glay123]

bro gman, thanks for the massive writeup. Sorry to take up so much of your time. And bro Hammie, I have read the article link you gave me. Fantastic writeup about the history of CAMERAS in general.

Quote (gman):
So what does the f-stop number refer to. It refers to the aperture inside a lens. Lets say if i have a 18-55mm kit lens with a spec of f3.5-5.6....it refers to the aperture ring inside the lens. How big or small it can open. Aperture ring affects the amount of light that can travel through the lens and into the camera. If you have a smaller aperture number like f2.8, your aperture is opened to the widest and it can allow alot of light to pass through.

Hmmm, after reading it, seems logical, but I read it as:

small aperture number like f.28 -> aperture widest ->alot of light pass through.

But if the camera's maximum aperture is f4.5, can I say the "alot of light passing through" the lens cannot go into the camera??? :lovegrin:Hahaha, sounds abit dumb, sorry if I sound stupid or a pain in the ass. Just trying to get my concepts clear here.

Thanks again
glay123

 

[eleveninth]

But if the camera's maximum aperture is f4.5, can I say the "alot of light passing through" the lens cannot go into the camera??? :lovegrin:Hahaha, sounds abit dumb, sorry if I sound stupid or a pain in the ass. Just trying to get my concepts clear here.

:dunno::sweat: what do you mean by the lens cannot go into the camera.?

anyway maybe this might help

 

[hammie]

Off main topic abit .. Gman how ur 55-250. I need a cheapo tele lens >_>

 

[glay123]

:dunno::sweat: what do you mean by the lens cannot go into the camera.?

anyway maybe this might help

hi bro eleveninth, maybe I dint clarify properly. I drew up something (hahah :bsmilie: using Paint) here http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/glay123/apeture.jpg

something like that. Cos what I understand is like if u have an external lens of f/2.8. certain amount of light can come in through the lens. However as it travel into the camera (which has only max f/4.5 = smaller aperture), the eventual light that is captured in the camera is f/4.5 and not that of f/2.8.

I donno if my concept is right at all, but thats how I understood so far. Pls correct me, i don't wan to learn the wrong things! :sweat:

thanks
glay123

 

[hammie]

Read the link I posted http://photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/lenses.html#aperture Understand what is a f-stop aka aperture. Aperture is not the size of the hole but a ratio of the size of the hole regards to focal lens. f4 on 200mm hole is different size from f4 on 55mm

Camera do not have a aperture. Camera only have sensor size. Aperture is only related to lens not camera body.

Read the photonotes and u have ur basic covered

 

[eleveninth]

hi bro eleveninth, maybe I dint clarify properly. I drew up something (hahah :bsmilie: using Paint) here http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/glay123/apeture.jpg

something like that. Cos what I understand is like if u have an external lens of f/2.8. certain amount of light can come in through the lens. However as it travel into the camera (which has only max f/4.5 = smaller aperture), the eventual light that is captured in the camera is f/4.5 and not that of f/2.8.

I donno if my concept is right at all, but thats how I understood so far. Pls correct me, i don't wan to learn the wrong things! :sweat:

thanks
glay123

mmm there are no blades in the camera itself. Only in the lenses.

And i since hammie has already said everything. I dont need to elaborate more.

 

[jlkk76]

side track abit hor...hammie, wat the main diff btw 450D n 50D? Crop size diff ah?

if good maybe i buy another one...:bsmilie:

 

[hammie]

side track abit hor...hammie, wat the main diff btw 450D n 50D? Crop size diff ah?

if good maybe i buy another one...:bsmilie:

Still 1.6x but detail a bit more coz 15mp. Handling is way different also. LCD is OMG!!!! U can pixel peep on this thing. The Microadjust, you can adjust ur lens to pin sharp which I did successfully. It a worthwhile buy for body upgrading and of coz the 450D without the 4

*off track* Who want my Sandisk 8GB SDHC Ultra II with a SDHC reader. I sell cheap cheap. It become my money weight :bsmilie:

 

[eleveninth]

side track abit hor...hammie, wat the main diff btw 450D n 50D? Crop size diff ah?

if good maybe i buy another one...:bsmilie:

hoho everyone upgrading. :devil: BBB virus

 

[glay123]

Still 1.6x but detail a bit more coz 15mp. Handling is way different also. LCD is OMG!!!! U can pixel peep on this thing. The Microadjust, you can adjust ur lens to pin sharp which I did successfully. It a worthwhile buy for body upgrading and of coz the 450D without the 4

*off track* Who want my Sandisk 8GB SDHC Ultra II with a SDHC reader. I sell cheap cheap. It become my money weight :bsmilie:

Hahah. Hammie, I will definitely need it if I am getting the 450D! (which should be sometime soon). Also sidetrack abit, isit usually the case that Computer fairs give better deals? Cos I read in another thread there is one coming up in Nov/Dec.

 

[hammie]

Hahah. Hammie, I will definitely need it if I am getting the 450D! (which should be sometime soon). Also sidetrack abit, isit usually the case that Computer fairs give better deals? Cos I read in another thread there is one coming up in Nov/Dec.

Nope... U pay for the freebies at pc show. Most of the time, street price will sync with the PC show price

 

[glay123]

Nope... U pay for the freebies at pc show. Most of the time, street price will sync with the PC show price

wa. then it seems bo hua liao.

back to my topic, i have read all the new links. so in summary, can I say that simply, if I mount a 17-55mm/f2.8 on a 450D, I will be able to fully utilize the capabilities of the lens and not get "restricted" by the camera?

thanks ah!

 

[eleveninth]

wa. then it seems bo hua liao.

back to my topic, i have read all the new links. so in summary, can I say that simply, if I mount a 17-55mm/f2.8 on a 450D, I will be able to fully utilize the capabilities of the lens and not get "restricted" by the camera?

thanks ah!

yes, when you get your camera it will probably be easier to understand. Hands on is always better.

 

[jlkk76]

wa. then it seems bo hua liao.

back to my topic, i have read all the new links. so in summary, can I say that simply, if I mount a 17-55mm/f2.8 on a 450D, I will be able to fully utilize the capabilities of the lens and not get "restricted" by the camera?

thanks ah!

yup...try then u will know..but rem of the 1.6x crop factor hor..

oh yah..btw, I think the 17-55 F2.8 might be out of ur range cos it cost more than 1k lor..

*side track* I'm thinkin of getting dat or the tammy 17-50 F2.8 ....man i'm slowly getting the BBB virus liao...hmm..think I sunk in abit liao..

 

[JPLim]

Hi, add me in the the club. I joined the photo marathon though still a novice. Just for the fun of it

Kiterunner

I just got my 450D lately. Great camera..:bsmilie:

Welcome to the club.
Feel free to exchange the information and photos related to 450D here.
You might want to check the first page for our outing activities.