BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

[satay16]

Can i ask one simple question? what should the governement do right now?

1. allow protest? nah, those pp are boycotting us already, so it is useless to allow protests.

2. stay firm and say no to protests without restrictions. well, sure, singapore would be safe, but charities will boycott IMF and so will many many other NGOs. hmmm, i think not bad an idea, just shift the problem somewhere else, give more poverty into other countries and let singapore stay in the surreal state of security.

conculsion: ???????:dunno: i would say it's too late for any repairs. we just have to grab the handle as tight as possible and wait till the ride is over.

 

[mattlock]

Can i ask one simple question? what should the governement do right now?

1. allow protest? nah, those pp are boycotting us already, so it is useless to allow protests.

2. stay firm and say no to protests without restrictions. well, sure, singapore would be safe, but charities will boycott IMF and so will many many other NGOs. hmmm, i think not bad an idea, just shift the problem somewhere else, give more poverty into other countries and let singapore stay in the surreal state of security.

conculsion: ???????:dunno: i would say it's too late for any repairs. we just have to grab the handle as tight as possible and wait till the ride is over.

I think that this discussion is good. like I said earlier I think that the amount of replies this thread is getting points to some strong feelings.....

I think that we as citizens have to ask whether hosting the IMF was a good idea in the first place. and take into consideration these issues if we decide to host another event of this scale again

But hey, on the bright side I'm sure the hoo haa over this will actually be beneficial. We may get more hardnosed countries approaching us to host events in our country. last time I heard, China, Russia and Iran have their own little meetings once in awhile and I'm sure they wouldn't mind some toughass security.

 

[satay16]

Activists say might take legal action against Singapore
Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:08am ET

By Koh Gui Qing

BATAM, Indonesia (Reuters) - Activists are considering legal action against Singapore, accusing the government of violating human rights after police held members incommunicado before deporting them, an activist said on Saturday.

Lidy Nacpil said several NGOs that gathered on the Indonesian island of Batam are considering taking legal action in international courts or appealing to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights.

Singapore, which is hosting the annual World Bank-IMF meetings, initially blacklisted more than two dozen activists who had been accredited to attend the event.


The government said late on Friday that it would allow 22 of the 27 blacklisted activists to enter, following strong criticism of its actions by the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.

"The point is we have to show that we are serious, that they can't get away with this," Nacpil said on the sidelines of a three-day forum in Batam, a short boat ride from Singapore.

"We are still in the exploratory stage as to what our options are," added Nacpil, international coordinator of Jubilee South, a network of non-governmental organizations.

She said NGOs including Jubilee South and the International NGO Forum on Indonesian Development (INFID) were discussing the "appropriate action" to take.

"The fact is that they detained all these people without giving them a chance to inform their colleagues or their family" or to make any telephone calls, she said.

Singapore police declined to comment.

Jakarta-based INFID is an umbrella group of more than 100 non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in Indonesia and abroad. The group lobbies governments on issues affecting Indonesia.
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see, we took the wrong path, now, we have to make a choice between two paths, both having to make certain sacrifices.
some of you who argued the dangers of protests with reference to historical examples are correct. it is indeed dangerous, but i think that's no longer the issue right now. i think the best thing we can do for singapore is to be like a lawyer, arguing things like the IMF choosing singapore despite knowing what we are like. but it is going to be hard, as the one who breaks the contract is most of the time on the losing end.

 

[DT_]

DT the point is what are we protesting against? Are we protesting just because IMF is here and Foreigners come and we happily join in and protest and say "Freedom!! Free Speech!!"

If we really want to protest then it should be against something that affects us. I will not hesitate to speak up if the govt is wrong but in this instance I feel that it is so silly that we are doing "Billy (or in this case foreign groups) says" Meaning what they do, we follow. As I said before, IMF have had history of severe violence and SIngapore IS a prime target for Islamic Extremists. I can understand the govt point of view, a street protest will be a security nightmare, no one can guarantee among that hundred over people (that is if a public protest was allowed) you won't have a small group of trouble makers who start a riot. In that instance, the police will be forced to step in with force and then they will be accused of being brutal in using force to curb the protests. Either way, our govt gets blamed for everything.

Yes if you get food and drink, you still have the right to fight for your rights, but as I said are these foreign protesters really concerned about you? They are just here for their own agendas.

And as for our neighbours, yes they need time to catch up but one cannot deny their mismanagement have led them to what they are today. One tip, just go to any tall building and take a look around at teh skyline and the modern development, the order, the sight of our nation and you compare that with that of our neighbours. I would say this I am proud to be Singaporean.

could it be local or foreigner, pples protest because they wanted to express their objection.. their concern? .. usually of good interest such as, to stand up on behalf of the poverty, to get attention on what has to, .. think positively, is their voices going to help? i think even IMF agree it will... of course sometimes it turns out bad (only sometimes), bloodshed happens, protesters are hurt, but should it be an excuse to barred these civil society for execising their good deeds?... in the end, these are the pple whom sacrifice, and what had they gain for personal? ... initially it could be a protest on economical issues, but look now who's responsible when protesters start yelling on 'no voice', speech freedom and democracy.. who has 'self-inflicted' embarrassment on themselves?

if the foreign protesters aint here for their own agendas.. they wont know they have to be concern about us.. some foreigner even highlighted that this might causes impact on citizen of singapore... from all the news headline we've made, i think probably the whole world is concern about us now...

skyline and the modern development makes you feels proud.. okay i guess it's individual.. but seriously it doesnt make me feel any happier... i m not into those which are 'good to see'.. if only 135 millions could be of use to improve living rather then potted flowers and iron fence, etc...

 

[dawgbyte77]

Its really sad that for all the pride and success that you are enjoying, you are still apathetic and self centered. First of all, not everyone have that chance to stand at the tallest building. And for those who do, all they see is a peaceful view of the city. They do not see the problems and the people behind it. If what you said is true about Singapore being a perfect country, why do I encounter so many charities? I got nothing more to add for the IMF issue but I am deeply disturb on how you also try to relate everything into "me" against "them". More disturbing is how other people agree with you. This has nothing to do with your neighbors who, as you say, is incompetent. This has nothing to do with westerners in particular. This has nothing to do with Iraq. But this has something to do with the poor, which you seem to be afraid of.

Well the last I know, we have clean streets, good health care, my sister can walk safely at night without the worry of getting raped unlike some of our neighbours in which the police is so incompentent, the residents have to set up vigilante groups. When you stand at the tallest building in Singapore, I take a look and I feel proud, proud of the majestic of Singapore's infrastructure. And I know that our military might not be a 100 percent perfect one but at least it makes our neighbours think twice about trying to swallow us. Cos they know even if we fall, will inflict heavy losses on them before we do.

This might not be a perfect country but nothing in this world is perfect. Give me stability, posperity anytime and not some "freedom, rights" that is imposed by other "cultures" Look at what Freedom and Rights have done to Iraq...



It is not as simple as 27 activists, They are leaders and hence organisers. It is now a case of cutting off the head to kill the body. Banning them is a good decision to prevent them from organising protests that have always turn violent.

 

[Silence Sky]

see, we took the wrong path, now, we have to make a choice between two paths, both having to make certain sacrifices.
some of you who argued the dangers of protests with reference to historical examples are correct. it is indeed dangerous, but i think that's no longer the issue right now. i think the best thing we can do for singapore is to be like a lawyer, arguing things like the IMF choosing singapore despite knowing what we are like. but it is going to be hard, as the one who breaks the contract is most of the time on the losing end.

My nightmare is not about the protest or the activists, but the consequences and implications our actions will bring upon us. Seems like it is becoming a reality.

One day, we might see Newspaper carrying a dying African infant with Title " Act of Singapore"

This time it is not as simple as shutting off Dr Chee and his sister. These activists have wealth of experience in handling our authoritarian leaders. They will pursue their causes and their rights to the fullest.

Best cause of action == Prepare 4 millions Apologies!!

:cry::embrass: :kok: :hammer: :hung:

 

[seankyh]

lets make a jumbo plane full of paper cranes and drop it over batam.

 

[seankyh]

I think that this discussion is good. like I said earlier I think that the amount of replies this thread is getting points to some strong feelings.....

I think that we as citizens have to ask whether hosting the IMF was a good idea in the first place. and take into consideration these issues if we decide to host another event of this scale again

But hey, on the bright side I'm sure the hoo haa over this will actually be beneficial. We may get more hardnosed countries approaching us to host events in our country. last time I heard, China, Russia and Iran have their own little meetings once in awhile and I'm sure they wouldn't mind some toughass security.

I think the gov. saw this event to be like the Olympics or the World Cup and the glamour that comes with it.

I guess they thought they could cover everything up with flowers, smiles and tar over unfinished roads.

But to their credit, they did allow some of the banned protestors to come. A bit too late but that was a show of openness and willing to work with the system. This kind of give and take is not normally seen. I think despite its poor timing, it still shows the country's willingness to comply.

 

[CYRN]

Activists say might take legal action against Singapore
Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:08am ET

By Koh Gui Qing

BATAM, Indonesia (Reuters) - Activists are considering legal action against Singapore, accusing the government of violating human rights after police held members incommunicado before deporting them, an activist said on Saturday.

Lidy Nacpil said several NGOs that gathered on the Indonesian island of Batam are considering taking legal action in international courts or appealing to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights.

they better tink hard before suing Sg... I believe, Sg let them in after some hoo-ha. But it's they how now refuse to enter. We might have a very tough law enforcement procedures, but it should not have infringed on something UNCHR can pin us to.

They haven't felt Sg poweress in counter-suing. :bsmilie:

 

[CYRN]

Can i ask one simple question? what should the governement do right now?

1. allow protest? nah, those pp are boycotting us already, so it is useless to allow protests.

2. stay firm and say no to protests without restrictions. well, sure, singapore would be safe, but charities will boycott IMF and so will many many other NGOs. hmmm, i think not bad an idea, just shift the problem somewhere else, give more poverty into other countries and let singapore stay in the surreal state of security.

conculsion: ???????:dunno: i would say it's too late for any repairs. we just have to grab the handle as tight as possible and wait till the ride is over.

The ball is now (actually, all the while) in the activist court... we allowed "protest"... Juz like we allowed free-speech @ hong lim park. Get security screened, get permit, stay well within the boundries of OB markers.

 

[CYRN]

But to their credit, they did allow some of the banned protestors to come. A bit too late but that was a show of openness and willing to work with the system. This kind of give and take is not normally seen. I think despite its poor timing, it still shows the country's willingness to comply.

It's only after someone high up there mentioned/complained/protested to our 2 highest.

Who's credit is it?

 

[CYRN]

lets make a jumbo plane full of paper cranes and drop it over batam.

Then they fine sg $500 for each crane for littering. :bigeyes: :bsmilie:

 

[CYRN]

.....These activists have wealth of experience in handling our authoritarian leaders. They will pursue their causes and their rights to the fullest.

Which in Sg... it's non-existant. :devil:

 

[satay16]

they better tink hard before suing Sg... I believe, Sg let them in after some hoo-ha. But it's they how now refuse to enter. We might have a very tough law enforcement procedures, but it should not have infringed on something UNCHR can pin us to.

They haven't felt Sg poweress in counter-suing. :bsmilie:

:dunno:

 

[CYRN]

:dunno:

basically.. the activist dun have much grounds to sue Sg govt in the first place.

If the fail to sucessfully sue... then it implies Sg govt can "counter" sue them back for defamation or somthing like that.

*edit* I tink sg govt may be more "happy" if the activist sued them in ICJ.... then they can prove their "innoence" to the world.

 

[LazerLordz]

Consumption.

One major reason why so many Singaporeans do not believe/not want to believe in ideals that others have bled and died for.

Because it hurts and it doesn't give them an instant feel-good factor.

Shame on those who are guilty of this.

 

[CYRN]

For some posters here who IMHO needs to have more "details" before taking sides...

What are CSOs actually here for.. A little more details.

How WB/IMF views this issue.

1 thing I dun understand is the harping on the 27... what happened to the rest? In Batam??:dunno:

*edit* found them liao... seems like there's a third party.

 

[satay16]

basically.. the activist dun have much grounds to sue Sg govt in the first place.

If the fail to sucessfully sue... then it implies Sg govt can "counter" sue them back for defamation or somthing like that.

*edit* I tink sg govt may be more "happy" if the activist sued them in ICJ.... then they can prove their "innoence" to the world.

well, i am not too sure about it. i mean right now, we are talking about like how many organizations againest one singapore government. and these organizations are those that have gone through like how many lawsuits already, and lawsuits meaning global ones, not like lky vs chee. and i think they already got the first ground, which is that stupid contract singapore signed.

hmmmm.........hopefully it will end up like the apple/creative lawsuit. no bloodshed, just money movement.

 

[satay16]

and i am still very irritated by the singapore media totally being ignorant of this incident. is like they totally reported nothing about this. all they talked about is all those going-ons in imf without the incident of singapore breaking the deal. ;( do they really want to keep us in the dark? with the imf still here, i think it will just speak badly about us, our imaginary freedom of speech, or something even worse, selective reporting.

 

[CYRN]

well, i am not too sure about it. i mean right now, we are talking about like how many organizations againest one singapore government. and these organizations are those that have gone through like how many lawsuits already, and lawsuits meaning global ones, not like lky vs chee. and i think they already got the first ground, which is that stupid contract singapore signed.

hmmmm.........hopefully it will end up like the apple/creative lawsuit. no bloodshed, just money movement.

Firstly, if the CSO can protest all they like in the past, I dun tink thay took any or much govnt to court in the first place, it means they haven't any experience handling Sg govt.. so their past experience might not be valuable when suing Sg in ICJ...

Sg also got experience in ICJ too mah... most recently with our northen neighbour regarding some works around Tekong area thingy.