BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

[Silence Sky]

One Question: Can our world class Police Force or Armed Forces take good care of the 28 activists when they get over active?

If the answer is a resounding "Yes", then we should import them. Don't let it be another classic case of 'Praise the bully, execute the victim'. I have read reports on how the rich nations siphon money from the poorest nations in Africa (some of these nations can't even repay the interest terms forever). These activists might be rowdy during the past IMF meetings, given the conducive environment for demonstration in those host nations. But Singapore offers an entirely different setting, how far can these 28 activists go when prevented from gathering in forces?

If the Chief IMF-World Bank seriously wants to engage these activists, I suggest that we let these people stay together in the same hotel, preferably next to each other. In this manner they can have constant and more direct engagement in private. ;p

 

[Silence Sky]

Maybe we can do it this way. Since the whole SunTec is barricaded, we escort the activists there, prohibit them from leaving the compund. They can roam freely and express themselves fully to the Chiefs. :think:

 

[wildstallion]

Maybe we can do it this way. Since the whole SunTec is barricaded, we escort the activists there, prohibit them from leaving the compund. They can roam freely and express themselves fully to the Cheifs. :think:

Sigh, protesting is not about causing trouble for the sake of it, what you are suggesting is just immature in my opinion. Protesting is merely a way to make peoples voices heard. It is not full on rioting, I will repeat this again, protesting and rioting are vastly different! While I dont think protesters should be banned they should also not be allowed just to roam free and do what they please, there still has to be limitations.

 

[Silence Sky]

Sigh, protesting is not about causing trouble for the sake of it, what you are suggesting is just immature in my opinion. Protesting is merely a way to make peoples voices heard. It is not full on rioting, I will repeat this again, protesting and rioting are vastly different! While I dont think protesters should be banned they should also not be allowed just to roam free and do what they please, there still has to be limitations.

Hi:

I understand fully the meaning and purpose of a demonstration. Have joined a few while overseas. To me, protest and demonstration is a measure of a nation democracy level, and the conducting manners reflects its civilization level. I always agree that alternative voices must be allowed with no restriction. The irony here is that the IMF wanted the activists and creates such big hoo-ha over it, but are they really sincere in hearing them out and act on them? Please don’t take my words seriously, I am just mocking at some of the bad decisions made, eg. Fencing of Suntec, are we locking out the terrorists or locking in the delegates? Can the 28 activists really stretch our police force to a breaking point?
:heart:

 

[kongping]

Foreigners are what this country lives and breathes off! We are improving your country and frankly without western intervention Singapore would definatly not be what it is now! What would Singapore be like with no money? Western TNC's bring billions of dollars worth of business to this region, maybe you would like to think just a little bit before you open your mouth and show how stupid you really are.

Woah. Relax man. You sound like a charity worker.

Do you work for free in Singapore?

 

[wildstallion]

Woah. Relax man. You sound like a charity worker.

Do you work for free in Singapore?

Not that its any of your business but no. I was just angry at certain statements, I guess that anger shows and I may have gone slightly over the top.

 

[mau_lovers]

history of this meeting always attract large protests... now an IMF without protest doesnt feels like one, or is not going to be one... i guess this is oso how many IMF members felt...

during IMF in other countries, it's normal for protests to happen, and if we dont have a 'proper' one, the world could probably felt how abnormal our culture can be...

Hmm ... I will just think you are being sarcastic - haha! But I think the IMF / World Bank big boys are SO VERY VERY HAPPY NOW - they are falling over themselves congratulating each other for choosing Singapore - NO PROTESTS / NO DISRUPTIONS - everybody can do business - cho sui sui then ting chu - come on! FANTASTIC RIGHT?? Who cares about human rights / simi rights? it's all about the MONEY, ok? And Singapore Government SMILING HAPPILY away - this will be THE place for Big Biz / Big Bro conventions - coz it will become FORTRESS BUSINESS SINGAPORE and the all recreational activities will be provided by the IRs - next time all the delegates need not leave their FORTRESS at all - just hold all meetings at IRs and if they need to 'tour' Singapore - can just go on virtual tour. What a SURREAL WONDER Island we live in ... like the fake world in the Matrix ...

 

[mau_lovers]

I have nothing against foreigners but facts are facts, FT (Foreign Talents) take up jobs and opportunities. In case you are too busy trying to look cool mixing around with the FTs, maybe you want to look around.

Rather be condemned and voice the truth then to be political correct until it is too late.

I find your statement extremely prejudicial - enough said.

Hmm ... so I must be acting so BLOODY cool lah - since I am married to one??? I didn't marry him because he is a FOREIGN TALENT - I married him because we fell in love and YOU CAN'T PLAN LOVE. Besides, one day you may become a Foreign Talent in some other country - I think it is difficult for us to really live in Singapore forever until we die IF WE HAVE A CHOICE - because this country does not encourage us to be rooted. Everything is in constant flux - CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE ... how to grow roots, if you keep uprooting a plant??

 

[Klose]

30 people hold silent protest against poverty at Suntec Singapore

About 30 people from various civil society organisations demonstrated at Suntec Singapore on Friday.

These groups fall under the umbrella of an organisation called Global Call To Action Against Poverty.

The organisation is the world's largest ever anti-poverty movement which mobilised 35 million people last year to take action to end poverty.

The campaigners on Friday wore surgical masks carrying the words "No Voice" and T-shirts with a message against poverty.

The silent protest at a designated zone in Suntec comes as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) hold their meetings in Singapore.

The protest was to show how poor countries do not have a say in how the World Bank and IMF are run, said the organisers. - CNA/ir

Anyone have any pics of this?

 

[Klose]

Anyone have any pics of this?

Singapore inflicted enormous damage to reputation: Wolfowitz

Singapore has inflicted enormous damage to its reputation because of its reluctance to admit 27 activists accredited for the World Bank and International Monetary Fund meetings, bank president Paul Wolfowitz has said.

"Enormous damage has been done... A lot of that damage has been to Singapore and it's self-inflicted," Wolfowitz said at a meeting with non-governmental organizations.

Singapore said it had security concerns about 27 of the hundreds of activists whom the World Bank and International Monetary Fund had already accredited to attend the institutions' meetings in Singapore as part of a formal dialogue.

"I would certainly argue that at the stage of success they've reached they'd be much better for themselves if they (took) a more visionary approach to the process," Wolfowitz said, adding that he raised the issue in a Thursday night meeting with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong .

"Last night the prime minister said that based on Bank and Fund vouching for these people that they would look at each case individually and open the door to let them in. I hope that will happen expeditiously and completely and we're waiting for further developments," Wolfowitz told an earlier news conference.

Since independence in 1965, Singapore has grown from a Third World country to an Asian economic powerhouse.

 

[Silence Sky]

Hmm ... I will just think you are being sarcastic - haha! But I think the IMF / World Bank big boys are SO VERY VERY HAPPY NOW - they are falling over themselves congratulating each other for choosing Singapore - NO PROTESTS / NO DISRUPTIONS - everybody can do business - cho sui sui then ting chu - come on! FANTASTIC RIGHT?? Who cares about human rights / simi rights? it's all about the MONEY, ok? And Singapore Government SMILING HAPPILY away - this will be THE place for Big Biz / Big Bro conventions - coz it will become FORTRESS BUSINESS SINGAPORE and the all recreational activities will be provided by the IRs - next time all the delegates need not leave their FORTRESS at all - just hold all meetings at IRs and if they need to 'tour' Singapore - can just go on virtual tour. What a SURREAL WONDER Island we live in ... like the fake world in the Matrix ...

Your expression is funny, I like your insights.

Yes, it's all about money. If the Big Boys have acted to balance the world economy, then why are infants/children still dying every second due to starvation?

I recall the signing of the bail out terms by the IMF in Indonesia during the 1997 financial crisis. It reminds me of how China was sliced up by the eight nations.

 

[Sion]

Hey I like that photo...nice contrast.

I was actually hovering around just about 10 metres away from it for the entire duration of last night.

I also got.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=222426&page=4

 

[Long Thai Bean]

One Question: Can our world class Police Force or Armed Forces take good care of the 28 activists when they get over active?

If the answer is a resounding "Yes", then we should import them...... But Singapore offers an entirely different setting, how far can these 28 activists go when prevented from gathering in forces?

What do you think of your own question .... ?
Do you really believe it is a resounding "YES" ???
If they need to move a roit squad to take care of the "fantastic Four" outside the CPF Building ... How many squads do you think they will need to take care of the 28 FOREIGN TALENTS?
I think all the "security forces" are quite stretched to the point they have been calling back NSMen to do duties in and around the meeting premise, not to mention other manning status.


RGDs

 

[Silence Sky]

Foreigners are what this country lives and breathes off! We are improving your country and frankly without western intervention Singapore would definatly not be what it is now! What would Singapore be like with no money? Western TNC's bring billions of dollars worth of business to this region, maybe you would like to think just a little bit before you open your mouth and show how stupid you really are.

And you clearly have something against foreigners!

Also just out of interest, you have to relate jobs to the average Singaporean, and the average Singaporean cannot do the jobs that Foriegn talent can (especially western)

Im not trying to start a war here, just trying to open people minds a little bit.

It is not very clever either, to name your host stupid.
Yes, we welcome you (FT) and foreign funds.
But please be reminded that it is two way traffic.
Rich nations come to Asia to exploit cheap labours and the naïve locals, while Asians on the other hand learn the technologies and improve our lives. Heard about the BHP(Australia) case in Papua New guinea, BHP's mining operation poisoned the river, affecting the lives of the local resident, the damage done is irreversible. Heard about how Mac Donald exploits child labour in Asia.
It is about "Money", if not why is Seagate shifting it's operations to China, is it to make the Chinese richer?

 

[wildstallion]

It is not very clever either, to name your host stupid.
Yes, we welcome you (FT) and foreign funds.
But please be reminded that it is two way traffic.
Rich nations come to Asia to exploit cheap labours and the naïve locals, while Asians on the other hand learn the technologies and improve our lives. Heard about the BHP(Australia) case in Papua New guinea, BHP's mining operation poisoned the river, affecting the lives of the local resident, the damage done is irreversible. Heard about how Mac Donald exploits child labour in Asia.
It is about "Money", if not why is Seagate shifting it's operations to China, is it to make the Chinese richer?

That may be the case but has this happened in Singapore?

Not that I know of.

This is a Singapore thread, not a China or Papua New Guinea one. There may be issues in these countries with pollution and exploitation but thats a whole different issue.

And please, where did I say Singapore was stupid? If you look carefully that comment is aimed at centuryegg

 

[Silence Sky]

That may be the case but has this happened in Singapore?

Not that I know of.

This is a Singapore thread, not a China or Papua New Guinea one. There may be issues in these countries with pollution and exploitation but thats a whole different issue.

And please, where did I say Singapore was stupid? If you look carefully that comment is aimed at centuryegg

My apology, did not read about centuryegg's posting.
Forget about the negative comments, be assured that you are not hated or targeted in Singapore. Enjoy your stay here.
Good to have constructive debate with you people here.

In Singapore case, the trade off is not very obvious. Allowing US warships to dock here, has always rattle our sensitive neighbors. In the early days, Singapore provided cheap labours and was chosen because of its strategic location.

 

[wildstallion]

My apology, did not read about centuryegg's posting.
Forget about the negative comments, be assured that you are not hated or targeted in Singapore. Enjoy your stay here.
Good to have constructive debate with you people here.

In Singapore case, the trade off is not very obvious. Allowing US warships to dock here, has always rattle our sensitive neighbors. In the early days, Singapore provided cheap labours and was chosen because of its strategic location.

Yes, in the early days this was indeed true. But you have to start somwhere dont you, look how great Singapore has become now.

Again, this isnt a huge war, its what Silent Sky has said, its good to have a constructive debate, which looking at the topic will undoubtedly become heated at times.

 

[satay16]

An agreement is an agreement. Why did Singapore signed it in the first place? You know how contracts work, once signed, that's it, no exceptions allowed-unless stated otherwise.


Though allowing protesters is indeed a risky thing to do due to possible damages, the underlying principle is that Singapore has signed that agreement. I am not implying that they should allow protests, but this is a problem the government got themseleves into.


Right now, no matter what they do, there seems to be no perfect ending anymore, so the government took the option with the least cost inccured : break the stupid deal, protect the citizens, and just suffer with these contract-breaking consequences. sigh..... but this is definately a very very very good learning experience for Singapore, not only the government, but citizens too.


However, I do find that the 8by8 meters protesting area is an extremely bad move. When most people see this, it gives them the feeling of the Singapore government insulting or making fun of these protesters. this size is almost like a classroom!

 

[optimage]

I agree that we might have overdone the security lockdown this time. 4 million smiles means nothing when viewed thru layers of steel barricades. As host country, we must facilitate the intent of the organizers to allow feedback from accredited groups. Why insist on saying NO when they say YES?? Do we really want to make a loud statement that we can run the show better than the organizers intended? It is like having a salesman force you to buy Canon when what you really want is a Nikon!

 

[Silence Sky]

What do you think of your own question .... ?
Do you really believe it is a resounding "YES" ???
If they need to move a roit squad to take care of the "fantastic Four" outside the CPF Building ... How many squads do you think they will need to take care of the 28 FOREIGN TALENTS?
I think all the "security forces" are quite stretched to the point they have been calling back NSMen to do duties in and around the meeting premise, not to mention other manning status.


RGDs

Hi;

Have done the math, we need 7 riot squads to take care of the 28 FT.
Hmmm... Not very effective and efficient as our leaders claimed them to be leh..
Looking at it from another angle, we must employ these 28 FT to replace our world class Armed forces.