BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

[denniskee]

guess most have seen the orchard road, the road side is covered with flowers, newly planted. that my friend, one look can see it artificial. and guess how long it will last? how much more effort have to be put in to take good care of them after the convention?

i think the original state is fine. my oversea friends already impress liao. now like abit "draw snake add legs".

the million smiles, is it really needed? look so fake.

i think as long as we put in alittle more effort to provide better services is already enough to impress the delegates.

i do agree that if you have visitors, you will clean up your house. but this is not just "cleaning", more like inter-rim up grade.

but for the security, i think singapore is doing a good job.:thumbsup:

 

[Wolfgang]

Actually the whole situation is simply that our Government is too kaisu..... first it tried to justify by reasoning that it is for security reason and for the delegates' own good, but nobody bought this reason and then it tried to justify it again by saying that the Government will not have double standard, ok for foreigners and not ok for local (when has it ever considered local's view in implementing things? :bsmilie: )...
Again the bigshots didnt buy this reason, and so we tried again, by giving a 8x8 INDOOR area :bsmilie: .....
Then it "banned" some activists .... haha, world community protests, then modified to not totally banned but depend on the immigration officers bsmilie: ) .....
Come on Singapore, 4 million smiles and 4 million excuses?

Personally I think our Government should simply accept their suggestion and go for an exception to allow these foreign activists to have a free-for-all outdoor confined protests and not defend on fine prints to say "NO, you have misread our Memorandum of Understanding, etc..", (like those with KL), There are certain advantage for this: A test of our RIOT POLICE readiness to react to real situations (they have been practising with fake protesters, and here we have free, professional and foreign quality talents). If the outdoor area is confined and controlled, as well as the no of activists, I dont think there will be too much damages done. Anyway our RIOT team is so well prepared and our hardwares are known to be world class, why fear the few tens of angmo venting their frustrations?
I say go for it, Singpapore .... and it will provides some educational or entertainment to the young and restless, since our MM is always talking about the 50's riots which the young has never seen before. Are we really that helpless as to dare not to face some real riots? I say, go for it, Singapore and show the world how Singapore can contain real riots! Then probably we will stand another good chance to host these wayangs again. :angel:

I honestly honestly feel extremely sad that you feel this way. My friend, everything may be in place to protect but if an accident should take place and an innocent life is taken, would you stand there with that smile on your face and say, "hey its fine. it was a lovely experience to have at the expense of a few lives?"

What is a "why fear the few tens of angmo..."?! Have you watched the news lately? If you have not, here are some of the videos that might change your mind abt the "few tens of ang mo.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV4KfCLQNT0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g1X-YaWLaI (cantonese)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxJOS1Dm2Hc&mode=related&search=

Please do not have such a narrow mind to think that only ang mo or any particular ethnic group is capable or responsible for violence. Again, i would like to remind you, talk is cheap.

Unless you have experienced a full blown riot, I do not think you should call for one to happen just for you to experience it. This is irresponsible. Ultimately, before anyone else shoots their mouth off in such an irresponsible manner, i suggest you think it through thoroughly. None of us here, not you nor me have the ability to bring anyone back from the dead.

Life, may it be of our citizens or anyone elses, is sacred. Unless you are willing to be the one standing up and taking full responsibility for the consequences if the riot you so dearly wish for happens, i suggest you do not be too hasty in wishing for one.

Thank you.

 

[dawgbyte77]

First of all, I must say tt I totally agree w the govt stance to be uptight abt security ... I dun think centuryegg meant to say tt all foreigners are violent protesters or all protesters are violent. However, we cannot dismiss the fact that the protesters are mostly foreigners and some tend towards violence (historically proven). I dun fear the protests but I dun think that we need some violent protesters waving pipes and throwing firebombs ... the people I care abt may be there and may be hurt by these. If the protesters are peaceful and civil (no pun intended), I guess the Govt is more than happy to welcome them. If you are a shop owner ard the area of a taxi driver driving pass or office worker in Suntec, would u drive pass that area and park there? Without control, most likely there would be violent demonstrations ...

We do not know how WB accredit those individuals, do they personally know them? Vouched by their own govt? Think that the words used were "cleared" by their govt ... How does their govt clear them and does it comes with explicit understanding that these individuals do not go on a violent protest run while in Singapore? Rem Michael Fay? Spraying paint in States is considered ur "freedom of expression".

I dun think that in all the demonstrations, everyone start off intending to be violent ... violent ringleaders start the process and lead the way, show the example and stir up anger and resentment until the people standing ard capture the same anger and injustice ... in that moment, someone start becoming violent and the spark starts the fire ...

I think it is naive to compare violent protests to smoking ... how abt allowing serial rapists be alone with your loved ones ... u naturally dun want to take that chance, however remote ...

Okay, first of all I agree with your concerns about protesters that leads to violence and to avoid this as a necessity. But the people in the list are to attend the meetings and not to demonstrate, wave placards or burn effigies. Of course, there is a chance that they may cause problems... but at this point, I still think its premature to assume. This is not about freedom of speech or expression. I believe what WB wants to get is to know what are the problems and what they can do about it. Century Egg's reasoning that these deligates are rich and can pay so they won't cause trouble, and those who protest are farmers or .. basically poor people.. isn't it ironic that WB is about helping the poor countries but most who are against it are also poor? My point is just to listen to 2 side of the story. Regarding Michael Fay, what he did is theft and vandalism, and his case is anything but freedom of expression.

Regarding my comparison with smoking, I wanna clear that.. that is a hypothetical scenario and not about Singapore rule. So for the comparison of not allowing to smoke but allowed to sell cigarettes... i'm just commenting about the 4000 photos of people smiling, and those actual people are confined on the other side of the fence. Based on some comments about foreigners here, I am still continued to be amazed with the irony.

Again... comparing serial rapist to someone who disagreed with a policy (and later termed protester because they just can't agree with the majority's idea).. doesn't seem fair. They may be wrong but can't be that evil.

 

[wildstallion]

I already have tons of foreigners here to wreck our homes, take away our jobs, I dont want them to come tear down trees and mess up the place with their clashes with police.

I pity your view of foreigners :thumbsd:

 

[LazerLordz]

I pity your view of foreigners :thumbsd:

don't be bothered by him, extremists exist on both sides of the camp.

 

[centuryegg]

I have nothing against foreigners but facts are facts, FT (Foreign Talents) take up jobs and opportunities. In case you are too busy trying to look cool mixing around with the FTs, maybe you want to look around.

Rather be condemned and voice the truth then to be political correct until it is too late.

 

[Jango]

I find some of those giving thumbs up to the ban are selfish and are thinking out of their own welfare. I cannot believe my eyes when the reason to ban protests is so that you won't be late for a date or catch some damn camera sale. Fair enough, examples quoted of farmers destroying public properties or burning effigies are extreme though unlikely, and should rightly be banned. But why deport activitst groups that are wants to hold peaceful protests eg PETA?

There will still be Apartheid in S. Africa; South Americans would still be slaves of the whites if people hadn't stood up for their rights.

 

[centuryegg]

I find some of those giving thumbs up to the ban are selfish and are thinking out of their own welfare. I cannot believe my eyes when the reason to ban protests is so that you won't be late for a date or catch some damn camera sale. Fair enough, examples quoted of farmers destroying public properties or burning effigies are extreme though unlikely, and should rightly be banned. But why deport activitst groups that are wants to hold peaceful protests eg PETA?

There will still be Apartheid in S. Africa; South Americans would still be slaves of the whites if people hadn't stood up for their rights.

It is just an example.... when I mentioned camera sale and all. The point I was trying to make is that firstly does it really concern us? Secondly it is our house they are wrecking. And thirdly our laws passed down since long ago, no protests may take place without permit from Police. Hence Peta protest was illegal as they didnt get a permit and they wanted to strip naked. I am a Singaporean and I love my country and no way am I going to bend the rules for foreigners. As they say in Chinese, a family has its rules, a country has its laws. And please look through history of WTO meetings before saying that violence is unlikely, first look at Wolfgang's posts of videos on U-Tube and for your info, violence at WTO is a SOP. And about standing up for your rights... hello please dont go be a rebel for the sake of rebelling. Protest? Protest against what?? Do anyone really know what the protests are about?? Want protest to be allowed just so that we can be labelled as freedom loving?? Or just protest for the sake of having a protest?

 

[wildstallion]

I have nothing against foreigners but facts are facts, FT (Foreign Talents) take up jobs and opportunities. In case you are too busy trying to look cool mixing around with the FTs, maybe you want to look around.

Rather be condemned and voice the truth then to be political correct until it is too late.

Foreigners are what this country lives and breathes off! We are improving your country and frankly without western intervention Singapore would definatly not be what it is now! What would Singapore be like with no money? Western TNC's bring billions of dollars worth of business to this region, maybe you would like to think just a little bit before you open your mouth and show how stupid you really are.

And you clearly have something against foreigners!

Also just out of interest, you have to relate jobs to the average Singaporean, and the average Singaporean cannot do the jobs that Foriegn talent can (especially western)

Im not trying to start a war here, just trying to open people minds a little bit.

 

[wildstallion]

Secondly it is our house they are wrecking.

They are wrecking your house now? When did this happen, I havnt seen it. Oh wait, they were banned from entering so they couldnt cause 'damage'. Im sorry this is BS! No one knows whether they were going to cause damage or not, but I vote not.

The whole system of having to register to have a protest is utterly ridiculous! They will just turn down all applications. Protests have there + sides as well as some of the negative sides which MAY come with it.

 

[Nisa]

I think our gov't is ready if there is any riots of any sorts that might come up. But why take that chance? I know my family member is in the conference hall helping out this event, even though she has to work late every night, but at least i know if she wants to come home she could, without any fears.

Singapore might be kiasu, but then I think we are right in standing up to what we believe in.

Personally, i don't think that opporunities are taken away from Singaporeans by FT, but rather who would be more suitable for certain jobs and who is willing to give up more for certain jobs. And lastly there is not because of one race (aka Westerners) who bring Singapore to what she is today, it's thru many races who had done so. So please don't credit one race with so much honor.

Not happy don't come. Not happy then go lor.

 

[denniskee]

Foreigners are what this country lives and breathes off! We are improving your country and frankly without western intervention Singapore would definatly not be what it is now! What would Singapore be like with no money? Western TNC's bring billions of dollars worth of business to this region, maybe you would like to think just a little bit before you open your mouth and show how stupid you really are.

And you clearly have something against foreigners!

Also just out of interest, you have to relate jobs to the average Singaporean, and the average Singaporean cannot do the jobs that Foriegn talent can (especially western)

Im not trying to start a war here, just trying to open people minds a little bit.

while i dont agree to what centuryegg wrote, but do you think your reply is just and is totally uncalled for. especially the 1st statement. i hope it is only in the moment of anger that you wrote this.

 

[centuryegg]

I am not narrow minded and I am just reflecting the views of many Singaporeans. Of course we depend on foreigners but then our recent immigration policies of Pro Immigration has opened the flood gates for PRCs that come here on all sorts of visas. In case you havent read the news, how many PRCs have taken over jobs, wrecked families? They are so in your face that you see them everywhere. And for your info, the birth rate of Chinese is dropping drastically as compared to other races. To maintain the current status quote, this is the govt way of ensuring Chinese maintain a majority, and for your info the exact number of PRC in Singapore is a state secret.

If Singapore were like other countries that allowed protests for anything. We would not be the economic power we are today. Although we are not that "free" but at least compared to other nations, we are better off. One example of which we have time and money to buy cameras that cost a year's wages for some of our neighbours and computers and internet. So be contented with your lot and dont do dumb things to disrupt the good life you have. You haven't seen real misery.... not misery about no freedom of speech.

 

[thedellis]

Some of the comments here are really, really sad.

The government's got you so terrified of protestors that you cannot tell the difference, nor seem mentally capable of differentiating between protests and riots.

Sad, sad, sad.

 

[denniskee]

like our minster had said, singapore govt cannot have 2 sets of rules.:thumbsup:

 

[wildstallion]

I am not narrow minded and I am just reflecting the views of many Singaporeans. Of course we depend on foreigners but then our recent immigration policies of Pro Immigration has opened the flood gates for PRCs that come here on all sorts of visas. In case you havent read the news, how many PRCs have taken over jobs, wrecked families? They are so in your face that you see them everywhere. And for your info, the birth rate of Chinese is dropping drastically as compared to other races. To maintain the current status quote, this is the govt way of ensuring Chinese maintain a majority, and for your info the exact number of PRC in Singapore is a state secret.

If Singapore were like other countries that allowed protests for anything. We would not be the economic power we are today. Although we are not that "free" but at least compared to other nations, we are better off. One example of which we have time and money to buy cameras that cost a year's wages for some of our neighbours and computers and internet. So be contented with your lot and dont do dumb things to disrupt the good life you have. You haven't seen real misery.... not misery about no freedom of speech.

This happens in other countries too, like the UK for example. It is outstanding how many foreigners are there now, but they usually add something positive to the community.

How do you know I havnt seen real missery, do you really know that much about me?

Who says Singapore wouldnt be an economic power with protests? Is it really that farfetched an idea?

 

[globalshooter]

I think what IMF/WB want is to have an alternate view on how to improve. Not all protesters are there to cause trouble, some are just the same normal people with a different opinion but still the same common goal.
QUOTE]

that's why only 27 pple are banned!

 

[sharf]

Have we over done it this time round? :bsmilie:

We have always overdone it, even when not necessary. It should be ok as long as even overdoing works.

 

[aRcHeR]

sg government is just kiasu and kiasi... spend so much $$$ acquiring so many new ang-chias and peh-chias for the PTF, fence up almost the whole suntec. yet barr those 'protestors' from entering the state at the checkpoints.

haven't even got chance to protest already can u-turn and go home already... buy so many ang-chias and peh-chias for what? wayang? i wonder if you guys took a look at the parade ground at the old police academy while driving along PIE.

1 week before the IMF thingy, the whole area was parked full of ang-chias and peh-chias plus police buses and vans and what have they... my rough estimated minimum also 60 vehicles in there.. all just for a few ikan-bilis protestors in suntec?

my toes are laughing...

 

[dawgbyte77]

I am not narrow minded and I am just reflecting the views of many Singaporeans. Of course we depend on foreigners but then our recent immigration policies of Pro Immigration has opened the flood gates for PRCs that come here on all sorts of visas. In case you havent read the news, how many PRCs have taken over jobs, wrecked families? They are so in your face that you see them everywhere. And for your info, the birth rate of Chinese is dropping drastically as compared to other races. To maintain the current status quote, this is the govt way of ensuring Chinese maintain a majority, and for your info the exact number of PRC in Singapore is a state secret.

If Singapore were like other countries that allowed protests for anything. We would not be the economic power we are today. Although we are not that "free" but at least compared to other nations, we are better off. One example of which we have time and money to buy cameras that cost a year's wages for some of our neighbours and computers and internet. So be contented with your lot and dont do dumb things to disrupt the good life you have. You haven't seen real misery.... not misery about no freedom of speech.

Even though some of what you said is true, what you deem as facts are just incidents to me. I'm also concern that many singaporeans share your view about how foreigners (PRC to be precise) are the reason for all the problems in this country, taken over jobs and wreck families. But if you are true and banning PRC will solve all this problem, then I believe we just discovered the elusive solution to everlasting happiness. We should inform all Miss Universe candidates (except PRC) that world peace is indeed attainable... or else.:devil: