Apple vs Samsung

[stuck]

will the hardcore Apple Fanboys tone down. NO ONE stole anything. they just copied. and copying is the best form of flattery :bsmilie:

BTW, Apple did steal technologies and patents. they just bought it later to cover the tracks.

and buying doesn't absolve one from the past act of stealing.

I own up. I'm an Apple fanboy. But I also like to be rational.

Copying is stealing if you're profiting off other peoples work. Apple is not above infringing on other companies patents but they do pay for them as can be seen by the lawsuits flying ard. But I like to think in agreeing to sell the patents/inventions to Apple the original innovators got fair compensation (eventually).

 

[Evilmerlin]

It's not over yet....

 

[stuck]

My views ...

1. Base on what your description, it sounds like ... "seeking inspiration for its design = ripping off + improved on what was being ripped off" ... which some does it more while others does it less?

2. Physical form? Do you find led/lcd TVs for example to be very different in their basic shapes and forms? In other words, how do you want a flat screen to look different in terms of shape or forms? I believe the innovation is making them thinner, brighter, larger, lighter and more energy efficient and other areas etc. Btw, why is Apple making smaller iPads besides making iphone with bigger screen?

3. Color scheme, symbols and corners? I believe many can tell the difference between the 2 brands and consumers do not own Samsung devices because it looks like an Apple but for other reasons.

4. Software interface? I think you have to ask Google on that one?

Design does not occur in a vacuum. It is mostly an evolutionary process that is also influenced by what else already existed. There is no doubt that phones like the XDA flame inspired Apple's design decisions for the iPhone.

But if you'll remember at the time the smartphone market was dominated by blackberry & their clones. The industry was moving towards more buttons rather than less, as a touch only interface was thought to be slow & inefficient. IMHO Apple changed that & Samsung followed suit. But just like they "cloned" palm & BB phones before, they did the same with the 1st gen iPhone.

Sure one can argue that The galaxy phones NOW do not look like iPhones & that's credit to Samsung. But that does not cover up the fact that they unfairly copied off Apple designs in the past, resulting in commercial loss to Apple.

How would you feel if a brilliant product YOUR company invented with hard earned R&D $ was ripped off by some China shanzai company? The only difference in this case is Apple is already hugely successful & hence is seen to be just a big bully. As if Samsung is just some small startup that needs protection.

As for the user interface, Amazon & HTC has already shown that with some effort Android based OS can be differentiated from iOS. Samsung just didn't try in the early days as they just wanted to get the product out early to grab market share by doing the easiest thing - copying their most successful competitor. I rest my case.

 

[edutilos-]

Aiya, Apple also don't need the money, Samsung won't feel the pinch I think..

Unless you are shareholders you really don't have to care. Life will go on. Unless Apple succeeds in banning Samsung products. :bsmilie:

 

[keiser]

Earlier Galaxy phones resulting in Apple commercial loses because of the similar touch features or design? Are you absolutely certain the more consumers chose iPhone instead of Windows' smart phone / BB because of its touch capabilities and not for other reasons in the past?

R&D ripped off by a China company? I would ask why the design could be so easily copied and therefore raise the barrier (e.g. technology or design wise etc.), as well as continue out innovate them … or should I hide behind my patent for the greater good perhaps?

The fact that the hardware manufacturing has to make changes to OS or the interface tells a lot right… so i am juz curious why aren't you against google instead?

Design does not occur in a vacuum. It is mostly an evolutionary process that is also influenced by what else already existed. There is no doubt that phones like the XDA flame inspired Apple's design decisions for the iPhone.

But if you'll remember at the time the smartphone market was dominated by blackberry & their clones. The industry was moving towards more buttons rather than less, as a touch only interface was thought to be slow & inefficient. IMHO Apple changed that & Samsung followed suit. But just like they "cloned" palm & BB phones before, they did the same with the 1st gen iPhone.

Sure one can argue that The galaxy phones NOW do not look like iPhones & that's credit to Samsung. But that does not cover up the fact that they unfairly copied off Apple designs in the past, resulting in commercial loss to Apple.

How would you feel if a brilliant product YOUR company invented with hard earned R&D $ was ripped off by some China shanzai company? The only difference in this case is Apple is already hugely successful & hence is seen to be just a big bully. As if Samsung is just some small startup that needs protection.

As for the user interface, Amazon & HTC has already shown that with some effort Android based OS can be differentiated from iOS. Samsung just didn't try in the early days as they just wanted to get the product out early to grab market share by doing the easiest thing - copying their most successful competitor. I rest my case.

 

[stuck]

Earlier Galaxy phones resulting in Apple commercial loses because of the similar touch features or design? Are you absolutely certain the more consumers chose iPhone instead of Windows' smart phone / BB because of its touch capabilities and not for other reasons in the past?

R&D ripped off by a China company? I would ask why the design could be so easily copied and therefore raise the barrier (e.g. technology or design wise etc.), as well as continue out innovate them … or should I hide behind my patent for the greater good perhaps?

The fact that the hardware manufacturing has to make changes to OS or the interface tells a lot right… so i am juz curious why aren't you against google instead?

I'm not against anybody in particular. Just discussing the case, which was the subject of the first post. But if Jobs was still alive you can bet your house on it that google will be next. He was quoted directly in the biography that e'll do whatever it takes to destroy android cos he believes it was a stolen product.

Anyhow I'm glad you take such a cavalier approach to your companies IP being ripped off. Let me know when you invent next big thing!

 

[fmeeran]

While I'm not a apple hater, I'm not exactly a fanboy. But I did have good CS experience from the Apple store I visited in HK. Care to elaborate what you hate about their attitude towards customers?

It's not their customer service. It's more about how their products are designed trying to discourage you tinkering with it. I love fiddling with my gadgets. I ended up with a bricking scare with my first Android phone within 3 days of buying it because I was trying out different builds.
I would have tried macs if not for their locked down hardware and the apple chip for original motherboard detection. I like building my desktops and don't like such restrictions.
Their litigious nature also leaves a bad taste in the mouth. They went after all companies with any iNamed product just after releasing their iPod. Even ones which were established way before the iCrap. So not a cent of my money is ever going to apple.

 

[Rashkae]

Plus, Android has been in development since before the iPhone was announced.

 

[fmeeran]

But the trial is not abt which company u love more. I can't understand most of the comments here defending Samsung. If u have read up on the details that has come out during the trial abt how Samsung engineers n execs debated over which Apple features to copy n which ones to fudge so they don't look so apple-like, there can be no doubt who is in the wrong here.

There's no doubt Samsung has already began the process of moving to differentiate their products more. But I'm sure the legal pressure had a lot to do with it. The fact still remains that Samsung did steal. They may make good phones (which is another conversation) but stealing should not be condoned!

So wait, nokia had a square array of buttons in their phones to launch things in their non-smart phones. They had folders too . So apple ripped that off, patented it, and now no one else can use it?
Swipe to unlock was already present in a previous phone before iPhone, but I'm willing to say maybe apple came up with it on their own. But now they are just being bullies.
From your before and after picture of Samsung it looks like the main difference is number of buttons decreasing. But that's an effect of android not anything Samsung consciously did. And frankly, I hate the reduction in number of buttons, especially the pick up and hang up ones.
And lastly, who do you think is going to be fooled by other phones looking like iPhone. Everyone who gets it wants the worm eaten fruit logo on it. And no, when iPhone changes its notification system to something more like android or implements sms to hang up or whatever it is called, it's innovation, though the same Damn things were on Samsung android phones earlier, but whoops sammie didn't do the patent troll, so apple escapes.
I don't care if you are an apple fan boy or Samsung fan boy. Never support the competition being destroyed. Then you're fated to end up with *******s like Microsoft who want to screw power users of windows 8 for a more apple like ecosystem. Curse you MS, if you release windows 8 the way I think you're gonna release it.

 

[keiser]

Well, i don't literally mean being against someone but rather speaking against in general in an open and objective discussion in this forum … interesting that you mentioned that Jobs would make difference for google in this legal battle ...

Cavalier approach? Not really, let me put it this way … suppose the taste of the pork rib soup from a famous local store could be easily and quickly replicated (which is normally not the case of course) by a competitor … then I guess the competitor could be as good as the famous store (e.g. perhaps the competitor supply the famous store with some top notch ingredients or key spices etc.?) … or could it be that the famous store could not innovate further (maybe limited by the ingredients or spices or raw materials they could acquired to work on new / existing dishes etc.)?

Looking at it from another perspective , would the customer patronize or continue to visit the competitors' store if their pork rib soup is served in a similar environment, with the same type of utensils, with the same color soup and even the same large portion of pork ribs as the famous store, but not with the same delicious or great taste? If the customer do patronize or continue to do so for the competitors' store, do you think that those "non-taste" related factors are the main motivators?

So why is Apple fighting all these insignificant factors and won it in the US? Well ... Protectionism? Or ...? I leave it to your own conclusions and be reminded that you the customers are eventually in control and has the say.

I'm not against anybody in particular. Just discussing the case, which was the subject of the first post. But if Jobs was still alive you can bet your house on it that google will be next. He was quoted directly in the biography that e'll do whatever it takes to destroy android cos he believes it was a stolen product.

Anyhow I'm glad you take such a cavalier approach to your companies IP being ripped off. Let me know when you invent next big thing!

 

[xtemujin]

 

[Rashkae]

Aiyooo

I posted this already... you're late to the party!

 

[xtemujin]

Lol, just it on EDMW.

Cheers.

Aiyooo

I posted this already... you're late to the party!

 

[yrh0413]

Then you're fated to end up with *******s like Microsoft who want to screw power users of windows 8 for a more apple like ecosystem. Curse you MS, if you release windows 8 the way I think you're gonna release it.

Having an ecosystem is not a bad thing. Let me share my experience:
- when I snap a photo on my iPhone, my iCloud sync will replicate this photo to my Mac and my iPad. I do not need to transfer the photo from my phone to my computer manually.
- when I update my contacts and my calendar, my iCloud account on my Mac and other iOS devices got updated together.
- when I reach home and start charging my phone, my phone gets sync with my iTunes account on my Mac, thanks to iTunes sync across wi-fi.
- I can control my iTunes from my iOS devices, with Airplay I can push my songs from my computer room to the Airplay-enabled speakers in my living room.
- with iMessage now I can even send SMS from my Mac to iOS recipients.

No doubt that this ecosystem locks users into committing future purchase from Apple, but to me it works. It made life easier. Microsoft sees this as a potential thus they are following the same footsteps. Samsung did this with their SmartTV, their Smart fridge, and their Andriod phones as well.

This "ecosystem" idea has recently been enhanced on Microsoft's server platform; with SharePoint, Dynamics NAV, Dynamics CRM, Lync, Office 365, Exchange Online all integrating into one another to make a huge ecosystem it really makes a huge benefit to end users. Gone are the days you need to use #App1 for this, #App2 for that, and #App3 for another purpose. Now you get all from the same principal, and all products integrates with one another seamlessly.

Even Google is going that way. You don't like this ecosystem?

 

[fmeeran]

Having an ecosystem is not a bad thing. Let me share my experience:
- when I snap a photo on my iPhone, my iCloud sync will replicate this photo to my Mac and my iPad. I do not need to transfer the photo from my phone to my computer manually.
- when I update my contacts and my calendar, my iCloud account on my Mac and other iOS devices got updated together.
- when I reach home and start charging my phone, my phone gets sync with my iTunes account on my Mac, thanks to iTunes sync across wi-fi.
- I can control my iTunes from my iOS devices, with Airplay I can push my songs from my computer room to the Airplay-enabled speakers in my living room.
- with iMessage now I can even send SMS from my Mac to iOS recipients.

No doubt that this ecosystem locks users into committing future purchase from Apple, but to me it works. It made life easier. Microsoft sees this as a potential thus they are following the same footsteps. Samsung did this with their SmartTV, their Smart fridge, and their Andriod phones as well.

This "ecosystem" idea has recently been enhanced on Microsoft's server platform; with SharePoint, Dynamics NAV, Dynamics CRM, Lync, Office 365, Exchange Online all integrating into one another to make a huge ecosystem it really makes a huge benefit to end users. Gone are the days you need to use #App1 for this, #App2 for that, and #App3 for another purpose. Now you get all from the same principal, and all products integrates with one another seamlessly.

Even Google is going that way. You don't like this ecosystem?

I agree with you on the power of the ecosystem and the cloud. I don't mind the ecosystem as long as it doesn't stop me from doing something I could earlier.
MS is stopping people booting straight to desktop. They are also trying to stop installation of 3rd party apps on metro.

Basically my issue with them is that they are trying to make the desktop into a mobile. This was the main reason I switched from ubuntu to mint, and now i have to look for a good alternative to windows 8. Right now, I'm just hoping MS doesn't do this ****.

 

[roDz]

I am anti-apple product..then again, i not a samsung fan but so far, samsung hasnt disappoint me yet..i dont care abt their legal fights..i am a consumer..i buy what i want..best value for my money & to my liking but never an apple..they dont come out with many choices like android..

 

[ricohflex]

I do not own any Apple iphone or Samsung phone.

This thread discussion is not about anyone being a "fan" of either brand.
A phone is a tool that we use. We are not married to the mobile phone brand.

This discussion is about:

• Anti-competition tactics.
• Abuse and misuse of law courts to handicap a competitor.
• Country-to-country protectionism in the disguise of a patent law suit.

• Just look at the market share.
• Apple dislikes Google-Android. In short, Samsung is the whipping boy.
• If USA and South Korea have vested interests in the case, the law suit should not be heard in USA. It should be carried out in another country. For example, if the law suit was heard in an Iranian Court, then the judgement may be different.
• What is the quality of the jury hearing this billion dollar case? How conversant are they with mobile phone technology and user interface design. If either party's lawyers smoke them, do they know it? Are they blur like sotong?

Testimony of paid witness testifying in favour of Apple.
Quote:
"“The similarities I saw were the regular grid, the rows of four icons, the colorful mix of icons that are square with rounded corners,” she said. “It is my opinion that these graphic features create an overall visual impression that could be confusing to a consumer.”
UnQuote

Has the jury heard of freeware Android launcher app? Apparently the user can configure the rows and columns of icons. So the Samsung phone need not permanently have 4 icons in a row.

And so what if any phone has 4 icons in a row? You mean just because Apple has 4 icons in a row, no other manufacturer can do that?
A Samsung owner will never confuse his phone with an iphone. Because on the Samsung phone, the brand name "Samsung" is printed in bold letters on the front of the phone.

• An excellent comment by "tg77" in another forum. (I am quoting them because I could not have said it better)
Quote:
"Apple didn't invent multitouch and they didn't patent it. Instead, they patented specific (and fairly obvious) multitouch gestures and uses and are now using those patents in an attempt to deprive others of the ability to use multitouch. It's a blatant abuse of the patent system, and Apple is trying to monopolize a technology they did not invent."
UnQuote.

• An excellent comment by "calfee20" in another forum. (I am quoting them because I could not have said it better)
Quote:
"I am amazed by the stubborn resistance that some people have when you tell them that apple didn't invent everything. Pinch and zoom are intuitive gestures and should not be patented. Jeff Han showed this before iphone. In this video he gives credit to someone else who worked in the field in the 80's. He went on to form a company making large touch screens and Microsoft just bought that company. I wonder why, for protection maybe.

Here is the link:

http://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_han_demos_his_breakthrough_touchscreen.html

Our technology is built a small piece at a time and everyone is standing on someone else's shoulders. Somethings should not be patented. I am sure a lot of these software techs remember movies like " Johnny Mnemonic 1995". Do you think that didn't influence anything and where did the director get the idea, it must have been around somewhere............calfee"
UnQuote

 

[kei1309]

I'm not against anybody in particular. Just discussing the case, which was the subject of the first post. But if Jobs was still alive you can bet your house on it that google will be next. He was quoted directly in the biography that e'll do whatever it takes to destroy android cos he believes it was a stolen product.

Anyhow I'm glad you take such a cavalier approach to your companies IP being ripped off. Let me know when you invent next big thing!

by the way, i'm sure you don't know that Apple does rip people off there're so many cases.

How would you feel if a brilliant product YOUR company invented with hard earned R&D $ was ripped off by some China shanzai company? The only difference in this case is Apple is already hugely successful & hence is seen to be just a big bully. As if Samsung is just some small startup that needs protection.

erm... i beg to differ. Apple and STEVE JOBS have admitted to taking others' R&D and ideas and applying it to their products as well

I own up. I'm an Apple fanboy. But I also like to be rational.

Copying is stealing if you're profiting off other peoples work. Apple is not above infringing on other companies patents but they do pay for them as can be seen by the lawsuits flying ard. But I like to think in agreeing to sell the patents/inventions to Apple the original innovators got fair compensation (eventually).

don't just read the good stuff. go read my quote that you quoted in your reply above. Apple DID steal others' ideas and patents. and well, just recently purchased many of them when they knew the case would drag all these items into the light.

as i've said, you can steal first, then PAY later to cover it all up, perhaps months or years later. but STEALING is still STEALING.

sheesh

 

[TWmilkteaTW]

I need a smartphone and certainty not a fan of any brand.
I buy a iphone because the look of it appeals to me more.. might change if any smartphones appeals to be more after my 2 years contract or not..
:bsmilie:

 

[keiser]

I prefer freedom and choices ...

Having an ecosystem is not a bad thing. Let me share my experience:
- when I snap a photo on my iPhone, my iCloud sync will replicate this photo to my Mac and my iPad. I do not need to transfer the photo from my phone to my computer manually.
- when I update my contacts and my calendar, my iCloud account on my Mac and other iOS devices got updated together.
- when I reach home and start charging my phone, my phone gets sync with my iTunes account on my Mac, thanks to iTunes sync across wi-fi.
- I can control my iTunes from my iOS devices, with Airplay I can push my songs from my computer room to the Airplay-enabled speakers in my living room.
- with iMessage now I can even send SMS from my Mac to iOS recipients.

No doubt that this ecosystem locks users into committing future purchase from Apple, but to me it works. It made life easier. Microsoft sees this as a potential thus they are following the same footsteps. Samsung did this with their SmartTV, their Smart fridge, and their Andriod phones as well.

This "ecosystem" idea has recently been enhanced on Microsoft's server platform; with SharePoint, Dynamics NAV, Dynamics CRM, Lync, Office 365, Exchange Online all integrating into one another to make a huge ecosystem it really makes a huge benefit to end users. Gone are the days you need to use #App1 for this, #App2 for that, and #App3 for another purpose. Now you get all from the same principal, and all products integrates with one another seamlessly.

Even Google is going that way. You don't like this ecosystem?