Apple vs Samsung

[stuck]

please... go do your homework... before this lawsuit came up, apple went and bought up all patents from companies it had taken technology from.

it's been revealed that "swipe to unlock" was originally patented by another company, along with a host of other technological goodies.

I stand corrected on that particular patent. Whether the US patent system is broken is another conversation that I'm not qualified to comment on. Most rational people would agree that it's been abused beyond belief, but If your company operates within that domain then you'll have to play by the rules (however unfair). Apple is not the only tech company suing others. It's certainly not the only tech company to buy patents to protect their business (that's why all the lawsuits flying around the globe now).

The fact of the matter is if you look at the evidence being presented, you'll be hard pressed not to be convinced that Samsung as a company exhibits a long running pattern of copying other people's designs. Before the iPhone in 2007, their smartphones looked like Palm Treo's, then blackberry & then finally like iPhones. You may argue that the simple rectangle with rounded corner thing is very generic, but they didn't do that before the iPhone became hugely popular.

Samsung before iPhone

Samsung after iPhone

Even more damning is the internal emails that revealed during the trial between Samsung & her partners. Some of it came from Google, specifically asking them to back off from Apple like designs, but they didn't. Why didn't Apple go after Amazon for the hugely popular kindle fire? Or Sony with their gorgeous Experia series of phones? It's because these companies took their n effort to differentiate the products both interns of hardware design & software interfaces. At the heart of the lawsuit is not simply a question of Samsun violating obscure Apple patents because there was no other way to design a phone. Its because Samsung just blatantly ripped off Apple designs safe for minor tweaks to make them look not exact copies. Just take a look at the article linked in the first post!

 

[keiser]

Apple’s case that Samsung copied the iPhone and iPad—in pictures | Ars Technica

Got copy? What do you think?

Obviously! Apple is copying Samsung's bigger screen idea in the next iphone right? Why the new iphone currently in production not in pic leh? Apple should therefore stick on to their 3.5 inch screen right?

 

[Mr Khaw]

Apple sucks. Samsung will fight back for sure

 

[keiser]

Juz compare the courts' verdict at South Korea and the US ... its easy to tell what is going on ... anyway Apple is so heavily weighted on the NASDAQ ... you think they can afford to let it loose at this point in time?

It is a US court deciding in favour of Apple a US company against Samsung, a Korean company.
It is anti-competition.
If such reasons can be accepted to extract $1.05 Billion, then:

Sanyo may sue Apple. Sanyo SCP-5300 was the first camera phone.
O2 may sue Apple. O2XDA Flame was the first to have the flat rectangular shape with rounded edges.

Apple must be careful about the Korean / Asian backlash if this is perceived as unreasonable bullying against Asian company by an American company in an American court.

Two can tango. Two can play this game. Asian countries that have mobile phone manufacturers can find fault with Apple and fine Apple $1 Trillion for contravening various rules and regulations in those Asian countries. Or stop all sales of Apple products in those countries.

In addition, if Asian consumers see this as an attack on Asia, such that it is unpatriotic or distasteful to own an Apple product, then Apple loses its Asian consumer base.

 

[kei1309]

I stand corrected on that particular patent. Whether the US patent system is broken is another conversation that I'm not qualified to comment on. Most rational people would agree that it's been abused beyond belief, but If your company operates within that domain then you'll have to play by the rules (however unfair). Apple is not the only tech company suing others. It's certainly not the only tech company to buy patents to protect their business (that's why all the lawsuits flying around the globe now).

The fact of the matter is if you look at the evidence being presented, you'll be hard pressed not to be convinced that Samsung as a company exhibits a long running pattern of copying other people's designs. Before the iPhone in 2007, their smartphones looked like Palm Treo's, then blackberry & then finally like iPhones. You may argue that the simple rectangle with rounded corner thing is very generic, but they didn't do that before the iPhone became hugely popular.

Samsung before iPhone

Samsung after iPhone

Even more damning is the internal emails that revealed during the trial between Samsung & her partners. Some of it came from Google, specifically asking them to back off from Apple like designs, but they didn't. Why didn't Apple go after Amazon for the hugely popular kindle fire? Or Sony with their gorgeous Experia series of phones? It's because these companies took their n effort to differentiate the products both interns of hardware design & software interfaces. At the heart of the lawsuit is not simply a question of Samsun violating obscure Apple patents because there was no other way to design a phone. Its because Samsung just blatantly ripped off Apple designs safe for minor tweaks to make them look not exact copies. Just take a look at the article linked in the first post!

Well explained. What you're talking about is the reel story.

The real story is that apple is threatened by Samsung. I'm not a Samsung fanboy and i don't like copycats either. But the fact of the matter is that one giant is afraid of another and is fighting to retain supremacy

 

[keiser]

Did Apple copied Samsung smartphone design in terms of shape base on the pics (i.e. rectangular in shape)? I mean Apple could have designed differently yes? Also what makes you think Apple is not going to go after Kindle Fire?

I stand corrected on that particular patent. Whether the US patent system is broken is another conversation that I'm not qualified to comment on. Most rational people would agree that it's been abused beyond belief, but If your company operates within that domain then you'll have to play by the rules (however unfair). Apple is not the only tech company suing others. It's certainly not the only tech company to buy patents to protect their business (that's why all the lawsuits flying around the globe now).

The fact of the matter is if you look at the evidence being presented, you'll be hard pressed not to be convinced that Samsung as a company exhibits a long running pattern of copying other people's designs. Before the iPhone in 2007, their smartphones looked like Palm Treo's, then blackberry & then finally like iPhones. You may argue that the simple rectangle with rounded corner thing is very generic, but they didn't do that before the iPhone became hugely popular.

Samsung before iPhone

Samsung after iPhone

Even more damning is the internal emails that revealed during the trial between Samsung & her partners. Some of it came from Google, specifically asking them to back off from Apple like designs, but they didn't. Why didn't Apple go after Amazon for the hugely popular kindle fire? Or Sony with their gorgeous Experia series of phones? It's because these companies took their n effort to differentiate the products both interns of hardware design & software interfaces. At the heart of the lawsuit is not simply a question of Samsun violating obscure Apple patents because there was no other way to design a phone. Its because Samsung just blatantly ripped off Apple designs safe for minor tweaks to make them look not exact copies. Just take a look at the article linked in the first post!

 

[keiser]

Trend comes ... Trend goes ... right?

Except in Singapore, where most kids think they cannot live unless they own an iPhone just like all their "frens"

 

[ricohflex]

This was the first iphone (a landline phone) in 1983. See how different their in-house phone design looked like, before they got inspiration from O2 XDA Flame.

O2 announced their XDA Flame in late 2006.

and a few months later......

Apple announced 3g iphone on 9 January 2007.

So who is copying who?

 

[Edwin Francis]

Man, what a huge publicity machine for the both of them.
The lawyers are cleaning up, thousands of articles on the web, and they've got fans on both sides telling everyone who will listen about their innovations and features.

Of course, we'll end up paying for it all :bsmilie:

 

[trd2970]

They account for a significant part of South Korea's GDP.

I would think so... Comparatively, Apple has just a few key product lines...abeit very strong ones, but if they lose the winning touch or things dont turn out well, it is easy to lose everything (altho apple has a rather strong balance sheet)

 

[trd2970]

Apple sucks. Samsung will fight back for sure

Yeah... I have been boycotting iphone since few years back!

 

[trd2970]

Apple's win in US will only mean that Samsung may not be able to sell certain devices in US (or pay royalties to apple), but unless apple sues samsung in every major mkt, i am sure samsung galaxy line will prevail

 

[stuck]

Well explained. What you're talking about is the reel story.

The real story is that apple is threatened by Samsung. I'm not a Samsung fanboy and i don't like copycats either. But the fact of the matter is that one giant is afraid of another and is fighting to retain supremacy

Agreed. I'm sure commercial interests played an impt role in the decision to sue Samsung - their biggest rival in the smartphone market.

I just so happen to also agree with Apple that Samsung shows a well established pattern of copying & stealing from other companies' designs. The evidence is convincing from my perspective. But let's agree to disagree.

 

[ricohflex]

Samsung is one of Apple's major suppliers and sole supplier for some critical compnents.
Don't forget that other mobile phone manufacturers are watching this; and they may ALL close ranks against Apple if they feel threatened. This may include the countries that these mobile phone manufacturers belong to and their populations.

When I look at what Apple did, I am reminded of 2 things.
1) Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and thought they had won a great victory. But Admiral Yamamoto knew better. It was a strategic catastrophe.
2) Hitler in his stupidity/craziness, attacked Russia (an ally of Germany up till then) in 1941 when Germany was still fighting Britain.

When a company is doing well, it tends to feel omnipotent. So the mistakes are:

• to make unnecessary enemies.
• to attack too many enemies at the same time.
• to turn a former ally into a deadly enemy.

When Apple opens up too many battle fronts, it got problem. It may be attacked commercially/legally from all sides by everyone else.

 

[stuck]

This was the first iphone (a landline phone) in 1983. See how different their in-house phone design looked like, before they got inspiration from O2 XDA Flame.

O2 announced their XDA Flame in late 2006.

and a few months later......

Apple announced 3g iphone on 9 January 2007.

So who is copying who?

I fail to see how the iPhone is a copy of the flame. They look so different that nobody would mistake one for the other, the galaxy series of phones on the other hand are blatant copies.

There is no doubt that Apple also seeks inspiration for its designs for other companies.. Apple did not claim to invent the touchscreen smartphone, they just made it better. As kei has pointed out, Apple is not beyond buying patents that they believe will improve their products. This is not the first time that it has happened & won't be the last. The original mac OS was based on an OS they BOUGHT (not stolen) from xerox, while the modern mac OS X is based on software they bought from a little known company called NEXT (started by Jobs after he was fired from Apple). That is fair & above board, rather than simply ripping off other people's ideas & inventions simply because they're popular.

Apple's win in US will only mean that Samsung may not be able to sell certain devices in US (or pay royalties to apple), but unless apple sues samsung in every major mkt, i am sure samsung galaxy line will prevail

I thought we were debating whether Samsung copied from Apple & not which product is more popular? :dunno:

 

[pinholecam]

At the end of the day, consumers are the ones losing out in all this false righteousness.

 

[stuck]

Samsung is one of Apple's major suppliers and sole supplier for some critical compnents.
Don't forget that other mobile phone manufacturers are watching this; and they may ALL close ranks against Apple if they feel threatened. This may include the countries that these mobile phone manufacturers belong to and their populations.

When I look at what Apple did, I am reminded of 2 things.
1) Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and thought they had won a great victory. But Admiral Yamamoto knew better. It was a strategic catastrophe.
2) Hitler in his stupidity/craziness, attacked Russia (an ally of Germany up till then) in 1941 when Germany was still fighting Britain.

When a company is doing well, it tends to feel omnipotent. So the mistakes are:

• to make unnecessary enemies.
• to attack too many enemies at the same time.
• to turn a former ally into a deadly enemy.

When Apple opens up too many battle fronts, it got problem. It may be attacked commercially/legally from all sides by everyone else.

Apple is projected to buy up 25% of all the NAND flash modules in the world in 2012, while Samsung makes abt a third of all such modules in the world. Thus, both companies would probably still be doing business for the foreseeable future yet.

But of course, war is never good for business (unless you're a professional soldier, or in this case lawyers). That's why I really don't see this escalating into all out legal warfare. I suspect Jobs was actually the main driver behind the legal action against Samsung & Tim Cook is probably busy trying to negotiate a ceasefire behind the scene now. :bsmilie:

 

[keiser]

What is the difference between seeking inspiration for its design and ripping people's idea & inventions in your view?

I fail to see how the iPhone is a copy of the flame. They look so different that nobody would mistake one for the other, the galaxy series of phones on the other hand are blatant copies.

There is no doubt that Apple also seeks inspiration for its designs for other companies.. Apple did not claim to invent the touchscreen smartphone, they just made it better. As kei has pointed out, Apple is not beyond buying patents that they believe will improve their products. This is not the first time that it has happened & won't be the last. The original mac OS was based on an OS they BOUGHT (not stolen) from xerox, while the modern mac OS X is based on software they bought from a little known company called NEXT (started by Jobs after he was fired from Apple). That is fair & above board, rather than simply ripping off other people's ideas & inventions simply because they're popular.

 

[UncleFai]

http://buraga.org/gadgets/samsungs-...samsungs-new-tablet-design-after-court-ruling

 

[ricohflex]

There were 9 jurors. What Samsung can do is to consult some PI or specially trained investigators to sniff out whether any of the jurors were inclined to decide in favour of Apple and if so, why? Most likely it would be above board. But no harm checking.