400D or 30D

[jeryltan]

Just to make it more interesting.. I';ve started a poll here To build up the tension till 8 Sep :bsmilie:

http://www.clubsnap.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219112

 

[Halfmoon]

I think if one can wait, wait for 30D replacement... if not, I still think 30D will open up much more area to explore and learn in photography than 400D...

 

[csisfun]

Not really, I think the 30D is not as friendly as the 400D, its interface doesn't seem as simple and might be a bit more confusing at first. Granted, one will get used to it. Even so, I wouldn't say that a 30D would open up more opportunities. It's a bit like driving a car - a sports car and a regular sedan - both can move you around except the sports car does it faster.

 

[tamiya_model]

I think if one can wait, wait for 30D replacement...

I second this...

 

[Halfmoon]

Not really, I think the 30D is not as friendly as the 400D, its interface doesn't seem as simple and might be a bit more confusing at first. Granted, one will get used to it. Even so, I wouldn't say that a 30D would open up more opportunities. It's a bit like driving a car - a sports car and a regular sedan - both can move you around except the sports car does it faster.

Not as friendly??? Read the manual and practise and practise.... Practise make perfect!!!!

Sports cars and regular sedan???? You want me to illustrate the difference??? Me happen to be a car mad freak too!!!

Sports car, I assume you refering to a Ferrari... suppose a F-360...
Regular sedan, I will use a popular choice, Toyota Corolla......
And sedan 2, Subaru Impreza.......

All get you from pt A to pt B...

In totally different style!!! Not only faster and slower... depending on the road condition, and the type of road....

Ferrari is a RR, Rear Engine rear drive car, with a V8 engine, producing over 380+bhp and top speed in excess of 300km/h.

Corolla is powered by NZE 121 (if I remember correctly), In-line 4, FF configuration and with a top speed of 180km/h, horse of 110bhp.....

Impreza is run by a flat 4 engine, EJ16, Front engine, all wheel drive..... Top speed, 180km/h...... 95bhp....

In a winding road with heavy rain, which will be fastest??

A ferrari, with 300km/h top speed will be unable to use it full potential. A Corolla will be restricted by the high roof line and its soft suspension system setting is so soft and will have a lot of body roll....

Impreza will be the winner due to the AWD system, and it Horizontal oppose engine (also call F4) will have a lower center of gravity and also, this help in the cornering, and AWD system will have much better traction than RR and FF.....

Sports car might not be fastest... it depend on conditions, and usually, the drivers.... here, it depend on the photographer.....

30D have spot metering, and faster frame per second.... 400D have only 3, but a bigger CMOS sensor.... Unless you always crops, and need to crops to have a good image... and PS, then, the 10.2 MP will be good for you.

Try shooting sports events and you will realise that having 5fps is an assets... my EOS33 have only 3fps, and I think that it is not enough....

Try shooting portraits of a person with strong back lighting, and you will swear that spot metering will save your picture.... it will be more accurate.....

So.... if you never know all the difference between the functions, you will not know the difference.... and that was until I got hold of a EOS 33, and that I realised that I have not explored a lot of horizons.......

A cam body does help you in a sense. From my personal experience.

 

[csisfun]

Are you pissed?

You are right, a camera body does help you in a sense, and practising plus manual does help, and over time, one will get used to whatever he has. The extra features do make your shooting easier, just that they are not necessary at all. It is important that a photographer does not rely too much on his equipment, but rather, learn the limits and plan ahead. Spot metering is good, but the photographer will need to know how to use EV compensation. 5fps is great, I would love to have that, and some more you still can slow it down to 3fps, if necessary, why not? Because it is hardly necessary. Photography, is, like you said " it depend on the photographer".

Remember the venerable FM2? Centre-weighted average? Metering with only a +, O and - to depend on? Photographers got the shot with that camera. Without a motor drive, you are limited to maybe 1fps a second, depending on how fast your finger can wind the film. Photography is not about equipment, it's about putting your imagination on your recording medium.

Debating is good, but, really, there is no need to get so worked up.

 

[panzerpunk]

Actually, I'm a 30D user and I don't know how to use a 350D.. 350D seems too complicated with so many buttons. 30D is use wheel one, so convenient.

Yeah style. 30D definitely has more style than 350D/400D. Its so small but the best thing about 30D that i like is that its predecessor costs more than itself when I bought it! I don't think the 400D will cost less than the 350D, will it?

 

[Halfmoon]

Are you pissed?

You are right, a camera body does help you in a sense, and practising plus manual does help, and over time, one will get used to whatever he has. The extra features do make your shooting easier, just that they are not necessary at all. It is important that a photographer does not rely too much on his equipment, but rather, learn the limits and plan ahead. Spot metering is good, but the photographer will need to know how to use EV compensation. 5fps is great, I would love to have that, and some more you still can slow it down to 3fps, if necessary, why not? Because it is hardly necessary. Photography, is, like you said " it depend on the photographer".

Remember the venerable FM2? Centre-weighted average? Metering with only a +, O and - to depend on? Photographers got the shot with that camera. Without a motor drive, you are limited to maybe 1fps a second, depending on how fast your finger can wind the film. Photography is not about equipment, it's about putting your imagination on your recording medium.

Debating is good, but, really, there is no need to get so worked up.

Not pissed.... no one here have seen me really PISSED yet.... I have enough net forum debates to shoot people down... with vulgarity or not... I can hit real hard..... but that's not what I am here for.

You made a sweeping statement, and that is never fair. It also depend on too many factors, and etc.... Sports car will be faster...

If you generalise things so generally, I will not know how specific and what you are meaning and refering to since I will not know what you refer to if you do not explictly say it out.....

I think cars and camera is the same... The user, driver, photographers will explore the limit and derive their own style of using the tools.

You say spot metering is not neccessary.... but from what I know, even pro photographer love that option. If now we are still using film, most will want spot metering for sure. DSLR spoilt most people since with the review, you know if you need to reshoot or not... that is the challenge digital kills, and anyone can be a PRO now much easier... if not, PS... but this is only part of the story....

I also use D70 for work at times, and I can say that the spot metering is really useful.... SPOT metering can get you a lot of shots cleanly....

It depend on if you need it. Try shooting sports, and the 5fps will be useful.... it does not depend on photographer... the photograper is LIMITED by the camera...... but that is life.

So it is better to have a better cam since you never know when you need that option than not having it.

As for FM 2, that is one camera I have not used before, and full mannual, and not something I can compare with since I never use it. I used Minolta full manual camera before, and I am not sure if it is similar... but if so, I can say that I have experience, but for sports photography for example, it is still a weakness. I am using sports events as a reference, but you seem to be generalising shooting as a topic.

Different cam will need different skills to overcome the weakness of the camera.

I agree that imagination is the MOST important perhaps in shooting, but without a camera body to allow you to explore the horizons, and using one that is limiting your skills, which one will your shooting improve with??? I believe it is not the camera that happen to limit your skills developments.

What I refer to is having a camera with more options will allow you to open up more doors as one develop in photography!

For your information, I seen the 400D and 30D pictures, and I think their control is similar to 300X and 33...... and I can say I can handle both camera user interface with some confidence. I meant the buttons and the dial.... of this 2 cameras.

Just practise, and getting used to it. Slowly, I am getting used to D70 too.... One thing I am not good with is digital AWB, and some other issue.

 

[Halfmoon]

Actually, I'm a 30D user and I don't know how to use a 350D.. 350D seems too complicated with so many buttons. 30D is use wheel one, so convenient.

Yeah style. 30D definitely has more style than 350D/400D. Its so small but the best thing about 30D that i like is that its predecessor costs more than itself when I bought it! I don't think the 400D will cost less than the 350D, will it?

Actually, the buttons and the dial control the same thing. Just that a button is cheaper to produce than dial. It is a matter of getting use to it. Once you play with it, you can get it cos the theory is basically the same.

I think the 400D is cheaper than 350D when it first launch.

 

[panzerpunk]

Actually, the buttons and the dial control the same thing. Just that a button is cheaper to produce than dial. It is a matter of getting use to it. Once you play with it, you can get it cos the theory is basically the same.

I think the 400D is cheaper than 350D when it first launch.

Nono I mean the price of 20D when 30D was launched was much higher than that of 30D...

 

[hwchoy]

just found out something interesting today. can the 400D set a specific temperature for WB?

 

[csisfun]

Not pissed.... no one here have seen me really PISSED yet.... I have enough net forum debates to shoot people down... with vulgarity or not... I can hit real hard..... but that's not what I am here for.

You made a sweeping statement, and that is never fair. It also depend on too many factors, and etc.... Sports car will be faster...

If you generalise things so generally, I will not know how specific and what you are meaning and refering to since I will not know what you refer to if you do not explictly say it out.....

I think cars and camera is the same... The user, driver, photographers will explore the limit and derive their own style of using the tools.

You say spot metering is not neccessary.... but from what I know, even pro photographer love that option. If now we are still using film, most will want spot metering for sure. DSLR spoilt most people since with the review, you know if you need to reshoot or not... that is the challenge digital kills, and anyone can be a PRO now much easier... if not, PS... but this is only part of the story....

I also use D70 for work at times, and I can say that the spot metering is really useful.... SPOT metering can get you a lot of shots cleanly....

It depend on if you need it. Try shooting sports, and the 5fps will be useful.... it does not depend on photographer... the photograper is LIMITED by the camera...... but that is life.

So it is better to have a better cam since you never know when you need that option than not having it.

As for FM 2, that is one camera I have not used before, and full mannual, and not something I can compare with since I never use it. I used Minolta full manual camera before, and I am not sure if it is similar... but if so, I can say that I have experience, but for sports photography for example, it is still a weakness. I am using sports events as a reference, but you seem to be generalising shooting as a topic.

Different cam will need different skills to overcome the weakness of the camera.

I agree that imagination is the MOST important perhaps in shooting, but without a camera body to allow you to explore the horizons, and using one that is limiting your skills, which one will your shooting improve with??? I believe it is not the camera that happen to limit your skills developments.

What I refer to is having a camera with more options will allow you to open up more doors as one develop in photography!

For your information, I seen the 400D and 30D pictures, and I think their control is similar to 300X and 33...... and I can say I can handle both camera user interface with some confidence. I meant the buttons and the dial.... of this 2 cameras.

Just practise, and getting used to it. Slowly, I am getting used to D70 too.... One thing I am not good with is digital AWB, and some other issue.

I do not believe I am generalising at all. Sports cars are definitely built with speed in mind, sedans are not. The impression that people get when they see a Ferrari on the street is that it is built aerodynamically fast, with a powerful engine inside and whatnot. Sure, the drivetrain might lose out sometimes, particularly in lesser conditions like rain or off-road, but hey, what's a Ferrari built for again? Imprezas, if I do know them correctly, are not so much the family sedans, but the more sporty types of sedans modified for racing sometimes. Horses for courses. I'm more interested in painting our fellow forum members, whether they agree to my views or not, a bigger picture of what I view a 400D is when compared to a 30D by using cars. Not go into the intricate details about how cars work and how their wheels are linked to the engine.

I still insist that spot metering is not necessary. I think a pro photographer knows his stuff already, and has the ability to choose between the three different metering modes, dependent on situation - but someone who is still a beginner is better off with the other modes of metering. Spot metering requires frequent EV compensation, and I think you should keep that fact in mind. Plus, which type of pro photographer are you referring to? The studio pro photographer? The paparazzi? The fine art photographer? Can I call this a "sweeping statement" or a "generalisation" like you did to my statements? "If you generalise things so generally, I will not know how specific and what you are meaning and refering to since I will not know what you refer to if you do not explictly say it out..... "

The camera always limits the photographer. It's never ending cycle, is it? Why is there a need to upgrade even with the best bodies of yesteryear? Why is it digital photography is becoming more popular than film photography?

I know of a camera brand. It's called Leica. Their cameras routinely limit their uses to death. Yet, there are so many people who lust for a Leica (see the recent Leica R3 being sold in B&S section), buy a Leica, use a Leica, collect a Leica. Henri Cartier Bresson used a Leica, with a 50mm prime lens. The thing with him is that, he did not have opportunities to develop his photographic vision in anything else, and that's why, he developed it exclusively. Jack of all trades, master of none. Conversely, master of one, jack of none.

Digital AWB... eww. I don't like that either.

 

[unseen]

Try shooting portraits of a person with strong back lighting, and you will swear that spot metering will save your picture.... it will be more accurate.....

I believe a good photographer wouldn't be so limited by the body. He'd shoot manual, and check for exposure via histogram. It'll be as accurate as it can get.

 

[stjhie]

maybe i would say the most physical advantage of 30d is it's magnesium alloy build and larger viewfinder. i dont really mind my 350D's fps. it will all depends on the one who presses teh shutter

 

[Jet Lim]

Kill all the waiting and this v.s. that? Go for 1Ds Mark II.

 

[Halfmoon]

I believe a good photographer wouldn't be so limited by the body. He'd shoot manual, and check for exposure via histogram. It'll be as accurate as it can get.

Maybe..... I dunno about digital, but spot metering will save most film users, based on what I know.

Maybe digital is different, since one can always photoshop it.

Different people have different style.

 

[Halfmoon]

I still insist that spot metering is not necessary. I think a pro photographer knows his stuff already, and has the ability to choose between the three different metering modes, dependent on situation - but someone who is still a beginner is better off with the other modes of metering. Spot metering requires frequent EV compensation, and I think you should keep that fact in mind. Plus, which type of pro photographer are you referring to? The studio pro photographer? The paparazzi? The fine art photographer? Can I call this a "sweeping statement" or a "generalisation" like you did to my statements? "If you generalise things so generally, I will not know how specific and what you are meaning and refering to since I will not know what you refer to if you do not explictly say it out..... "

The camera always limits the photographer. It's never ending cycle, is it? Why is there a need to upgrade even with the best bodies of yesteryear? Why is it digital photography is becoming more popular than film photography?

I know of a camera brand. It's called Leica. Their cameras routinely limit their uses to death. Yet, there are so many people who lust for a Leica (see the recent Leica R3 being sold in B&S section), buy a Leica, use a Leica, collect a Leica. Henri Cartier Bresson used a Leica, with a 50mm prime lens. The thing with him is that, he did not have opportunities to develop his photographic vision in anything else, and that's why, he developed it exclusively. Jack of all trades, master of none. Conversely, master of one, jack of none.

Digital AWB... eww. I don't like that either.

Wonder why spot metering is limited to only the more expensive bodies??? Since we will not need it at all, and it is not useful and anyone can get a good shot without that mode anyway??? Why so exclusive???

Tried spot metering and evaluative metering and centre weighted... there is a vast difference... especially when you need speed.... spot metering is still the best.....

When you only have one time to take a perfect shot and no retake, spot metering should be the most useful.

People lust for lecia more for the sharpness of the lens I heard.

Agree or disagree, photography is for fun, and CS IS suppose to be FUN.... just tired of getting into this...

If I wanna Fight, I go sammy boy coffee shop, and F*** those jerks.....

If someone is going into so much details, it shows how much a person know his interest... regardless of cars or anything, as this is a personality traits. Much into details, and attention to details... while others will not notice that difference much.. but that is life... it distinguish the difference........

 

[Halfmoon]

Kill all the waiting and this v.s. that? Go for 1Ds Mark II.

Different league mah.... ;p

 

[panzerpunk]

Different league mah.... ;p

The 45 AP points just blow people away.... :bsmilie:

 

[Halfmoon]

The 45 AP points just blow people away.... :bsmilie:

It also BLOW a big hole in the wallet!!!! :bsmilie: