17-35mm f2.8 VS 17-55mm f2.8

[Cheesecake]

Since already fat, just take root beer la :lovegrin: :devil: indulge in the sin...

rootbeer is tops!!! :thumbsup:

 

[jOhO]

Since already fat, just take root beer la :lovegrin: :devil: indulge in the sin...

i don't mind a root... without the beer. :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

 

[espn]

i don't mind a root... without the beer. :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

Sorry, but the beer comes with it... that's life :bsmilie:

 

[jOhO]

but G lenses don't come with aperture rings leh!!! u brufffff me~~ :cry:

 

[espn]

but G lenses don't come with aperture rings leh!!! u brufffff me~~ :cry:

Gs come with two rings what... else how you slide your legs through... :bsmilie:

 

[Dennis]

Lai lai order now delivery on Sat ;p

 

[Tetrode]

while i'm trying to be polite, tetrode, u are the epitome of the word "bigot".

even IF you are right that nikon is only good becos of it's backward compatibility and all that stuff you said, it does not mean that people (like myself) that stick with nikon's newer bodies and G lenses are blindly following the masses with a brainless attitude.

i've never needed to blow my own horn, but if you click on my website below u will see POSITIVE example of a nikon "newbie" using G and VR and all that acronyms.

so u may say, "i'm sure u can do just as well with canon. at a much lower cost", to which i can agree. but wat am i supposed to do now bro, sell 30k (historical cost) worth of equipment for 15k and convert to canon?

and of course, there are other REAL reasons why (i feel) nikon is better than canon for MY USE. it's not just the lens system. i'll throw just one at you. how about the FLASH system?

just becos u have a vendetta against espn doesn't mean all nikon "newbies" that use G lenses are brainless. watch your mouth, cos i too belong to that "clan".

that is why i called u a bigot.

i'm sure you know the meaning, but for those who don't:

big·ot
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

taken from : http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bigot

Granted, I do concede you that. Nikon's flash system is technically better than Canon's.

But owning the better flash system doesn't automatically make one an expert in flash photography. Technology isn't the cure all for bad technique - be it iTTL,VR, et al.

By all accounts Canon users seem to get by pretty well with their flash system. I don't hear Gary Fong complaining.

OK - I guess I'm a bigot.

Btw, nice photos.

 

[Cheesecake]

JFYI, Gary Fong is the inventor of the LightSphere II and last i know, he endorses FujiFilm S3Pro for his wedding event shoots.

he is a keen admirer as well as user of the Nikon Flash System.:thumbsup:

 

[jOhO]

Granted, I do concede you that. Nikon's flash system is technically better than Canon's.

But owning the better flash system doesn't automatically make one an expert in flash photography. Technology isn't the cure all for bad technique - be it iTTL,VR, et al.

By all accounts Canon users seem to get by pretty well with their flash system. I don't hear Gary Fong complaining.

OK - I guess I'm a bigot.

Btw, nice photos.

hey we agree on one thing! :thumbsup: (the bigot part)

on a less harsh note: you have every right to like your AFS80-200 becos of the aperture ring and your old bodies, but not everyone's like you. if you throw me that lens on a FM2 i will die a horrible death. but does that mean i am a lousy photographer who is not worth my price in the industry that i am working in? i think not.

 

[Tetrode]

Tetrode:

Not that I dont see your point about the G lenses but you gave a pretty absurd idea there. There are a lot of new users that do not own older nikon equipment and that really doesnt apply to them. Buying Nikon is not about having an aperture ring and older nikon equipment to be backward compatible with. There would be some that buy it because of the flash system, the UI or the build of a nikon.

A G lens might be "crippled" to you but there are a lot out there that would disagree with you. They dont use the aperture ring to begin with, why bother turning the ring when you can use the command dial? That feature is not essential to them as they might/prob wont be using a film/manual body at all in future. Image quality, build and price would be what that matters to them. Thus "crippled" would only apply in your case or others similar. I would hardly call a 70-200 or the 105 "crippled", they deliver excellent image quality and demands for speed, aperture is control is relegated to the command dial, which made it easier in my case.


Ease up.

TMC,

Thank you for your civil and measured reply.

I have never said that the 70-200 and 105 couldn't deliver excellent image quality - or any G lens for that matter.

The points you have brought up - UI, build quality, image quality - don't hold up at the semi-pro and pro spec'd level. Canons (30D and above) now have pretty good UIs and build quality - on par with Nikon.

The flash system, granted isn't as refined as the Nikon system. But many Canon users are able to get by pretty good flash pics with their system. I've tried a friend's Canon based wedding rig and it was pretty good.

So where there is very little difference between the two systems/brands. Now more so with the introduction of G lenses.

If there is no need for what the aperture ring affords one in the Nikon system (access to it's Macro system) and with the UIs (Canon 30D and above), image and build quality of both systems the same. What is it about the Nikon system that these newbies are buying into?? The name? The goodwill?

 

[Tetrode]

JFYI, Gary Fong is the inventor of the LightSphere II and last i know, he endorses FujiFilm S3Pro for his wedding event shoots.

he is a keen admirer as well as user of the Nikon Flash System.:thumbsup:

I do believe he isn't tied to one system.

 

[Cheesecake]

I do believe he isn't tied to one system.

:think: i dunno abt that. but his seminars and such, are always abt S3Pro.:thumbsup:

FujiFilm S3Pro.:thumbsup:

but his LSII proves to be great, even when used on a Canon flash. :bsmilie:



GARY FONG is TOPS!!:thumbsup:

 

[espn]

:think: i dunno abt that. but his seminars and such, are always abt S3Pro.:thumbsup:

FujiFilm S3Pro.:thumbsup:

but his LSII proves to be great, even when used on a Canon flash. :bsmilie:



GARY FONG is TOPS!!:thumbsup:

GARY FONG ROX!!

 

[Cheesecake]

GARY FONG ROX!!

can't agree more with that! :thumbsup:

he invented the life-saving LSII!! he is my idol!!!!:thumbsup:

 

[espn]

can't agree more with that! :thumbsup:

he invented the life-saving LSII!! he is my idol!!!!:thumbsup:

How can you forget the Inverted Dome too!!! :thumbsup: We cannot live without him...:thumbsup:

 

[Tetrode]

hey we agree on one thing! :thumbsup: (the bigot part)

on a less harsh note: you have every right to like your AFS80-200 becos of the aperture ring and your old bodies, but not everyone's like you. if you throw me that lens on a FM2 i will die a horrible death. but does that mean i am a lousy photographer who is not worth my price in the industry that i am working in? i think not.

No, but I'm inclined to think that you're a tad reliant on technology.
Have you tried shooting a wedding with a couple of Leica M6s and fast lenses instead?

 

[Cheesecake]

How can you forget the Inverted Dome too!!! :thumbsup: We cannot live without him...:thumbsup:

my bad!

i advocate the use of the LS PJII with the inverted dome. :thumbsup:
from a flash blur to a flash guru jus like the main man, Gary! :thumbsup:

 

[espn]

my bad!

i advocate the use of the LS PJII with the inverted dome. :thumbsup:
from a flash blur to a flash guru jus like the main man, Gary! :thumbsup:

Ever wondered where you'd be without Gary? Shooting underexposed or lousily exposed images!!!! BUY YOURS TODAY!!!

 

[Cheesecake]

Ever wondered where you'd be without Gary? Shooting underexposed or lousily exposed images!!!! BUY YOURS TODAY!!!

bingo! without it i'm still a flash sotong! with it, i can imitate and act as if i'm the real guru, Gary Fong!:thumbsup:

 

[espn]

bingo! without it i'm still a flash sotong! with it, i can imitate and act as if i'm the real guru, Gary Fong!:thumbsup:

That's the correct word, IMITATE, we can never be a real Gary Fong cos he's da GURU!!! :thumbsup: