fotoudavid
Senior Member
how to take risk when you look at our bench.....
You'll Never Walk Alone! LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB!! *70* - A New Beginning!
- Thread starter Cheesecake
- Start date
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Cheesecake
Senior Member
hahahahahhaa we took risk by sending on stewart downing!!!
that clown almost gave away a PK!!!!!
it was a tremendously huge risk! my heart was in my mouth! what a crap player signed by King Kenny.
Cheesecake
Senior Member
Cheesecake
Senior Member
From Rafa to Rodgers – Back to the Future
By Marco Lopes on April 16, 2013
With Liverpool set to play host to their old manager this week, Marco Lopes explores the feelings of some fans towards the old and new regimes of management at the club.
When Rafael Benitez’s Liverpool ended 4 points away from the promised land of the Premier League title in 2008-09, the club lost a mere 2 matches the entire season. But, crucially, conspired to accumulate 11 draws, including dull goalless stalemates against Aston Villa, Fulham, Stoke (home and away) and West Ham (sound familiar?).
In similar fashion to this past week, Liverpool then managed back-to-back 0-0 draws with Fulham and West Ham, the latter producing boos at full time even though Benitez’s side stood at a dizzy height looking down at 19 teams from the summit of the table at the time. There could have been more stalemates had many a match (Sunderland, Manchester City, Chelsea, Portsmouth and Fulham as examples) not been won through the last minute heroics of Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt and super-sub Benayoun.
True, Rodgers won’t be getting any near the same sympathy by some for presiding over back-to-back goalless stalemates by comparison. After all, he didn’t somehow win the Champions League in his first season. Nor does Rodgers have a FA Cup trophy in the cabinet as well as collateral to protect against his critics. Rodgers’ side isn’t sitting in the top 6, let alone fighting neck and neck for 1st place like Rafa did in that one season.
But predictably, despite the gradual, visible improvements in Liverpool over the course of the season, the knives are once again out for Rodgers after his side conspired to draw two matches in a row against opposition that a slightly above average team in transition are supposed to pummel as if they’re winning the Premier League every week.
Rafa In
Results like the 0-0 draw away to the league’s bottom club already do much to discredit Brendan. I feel sympathy for Rodgers – it’s not the best time to play host Rafa, who is still so loved and revered by many a Liverpool fan. Benitez’s Liverpool career, for its lack of trophies relative to its decadence in transfer spending produced significant charmed highlights, especially in Europe. What Liverpool fan didn’t enjoy beating Real Madrid 5-0 over two legs in Europe? When Liverpool reached the finals of 2005 and 2007, they did so with weaker squads relative to other teams.
Benitez “got” the club. His time there stands as an antithesis to disconnected managers like Hodgson, and even to an extent Houllier. Rafa fought battles on and off the pitch. He supported those involved with the fight for justice over Hillsborough. He contested the club’s health under the poisonous reign of Hicks and Gillett. His Liverpool side, featuring both extremes of the talent spectrum (Torres and El Zhar anyone?), largely overachieved given the lack of resources / size of clubs of the era comparatively.
Queue this weekend – Rafa’s return to Anfield in Chelsea blue will appear almost perverse to some. And in the context of Liverpool’s recent form, many fans have once again posed the thought that FSG should have appointed Benitez last summer, or should do so in the summer coming.
Rodgers Out
After all, why wouldn’t Rafa do a better job than Rodgers? To criticise Rodgers is against the spirit of good Liverpool results, but now that in the last 2 games only 2 points have been collected from a “guaranteed” 6, why shouldn’t we lambast the young manager? Some Liverpool fans even suggest that they won’t need to criticise Rodgers – his results will show up his weaknesses and lack of aptitude as a Liverpool manager.
And for all his charismatic footballing anecdotes, Rodgers clearly has fallen short of Liverpool standards, hasn’t he? The team exited both domestic cup competitions (one to the eventual winners, the other due to a complacent performance against a smaller club). They conspired to exit Europe before even reaching the final 8 of the Europa League, effectively ending all hopes for silverware. And 7th place is hardly consolation for a club like Liverpool, is it?
Except that all of that, while factual in certain respects, is important to understand in context, especially when comparing to Rafa. When Rafa took over, he inherited a far better side than Rodgers did. He didn’t inherit a club that other clubs have now chosen to exploit with ludicrous transfer demands because of over-spending the summer before. Rafa came with more years of experience, having spent a few more years than Rodgers cutting his management teeth before managing that Valencia side that won the league title in 2002 and 2004. That Valencia side, previously managed by Hector Cuper, had managed to reach consecutive Champions League finals the seasons before. It had established and rising stars like Ruben Baraja, Canizares, Roberto Ayala and Pablo Aimar.
Benitez’s arrival at Valencia was fortuitous given the team and resources he had available, but nonetheless Benitez produced an aggressive and defensively disciplined team, building on the work of Cuper before him. That’s not to diminish Rafa’s achievement; league titles don’t win themselves. But by comparison, Rodgers has hardly inherited a squad remotely as balanced and strong and competitive in its own league. Rafa’s start at both Valencia and Liverpool featured much more favourable circumstances, ironically.
Rodgers In
I don’t believe enough Liverpool fans really appreciate truly the challenge that faces the current Liverpool manager. One can argue his managerial skill and whether or not he is out of his depth, but given how the squad and its performance have evolved over the course of the season, it’s important to notice the progress and blame the poor results on the right elements. Liverpool have become a far more effective attacking side under Rodgers in most cases. Last season’s hi-octane, direct style sometimes seemed a case of “bomb the ball forward and hope for the best”. Rodgers has brought in players that are more effective at penetrating defences that try and sit back against Liverpool, and the team’s attacking shape and movement is far more effective at turning dominance into goals. Two goalless draws don’t change the facts. Liverpool have pummelled their fair share of opponents this season (number of wins by 3 goals or more = 8 in the league alone). The issue, as most aptly point out, is consistency.
It wasn’t Rodgers that missed so many good chances against Reading. Suarez’s magnificent right footed bending shot near the end of the game would probably have been better served as the clinical finish he needed in the first half when his chip was headed off the line. Yes, McCarthy was outstanding in goal, but the Reading game stank of another match rank with Liverpool’s impotence in front of goal. Simply put, the game was there to be won, and it would take a supremely cynical person to ignore that Liverpool were indeed set up to win the game. The finishers didn’t do their job for once (or twice). That’s not something that can be exclusively blamed on Rodgers.
Considering the squad he inherited – which lacks depth, balance and some of the inherent technical qualities his style of play desires, Rodgers has done well to at least getting Liverpool to be dominant in most of the games they’ve played. In a previous blog, I cited how the margins have been unkind to Liverpool this season, something that Rodgers cannot take fault for. He’s made mistakes, no question. He’s been tactically stubborn and naive about certain team selections in particular. But he’s prepared the team well enough to compete and win in most of the games they’ve played this season.
That they haven’t won isn’t just about him – it’s about the players as well. He’s also amended the tactical style to suit the players he has, rather than the style he wants to force on them. Doing that, however, exposes other vulnerabilities. For example, Liverpool have to sit deeper in defence to accommodate the lack of speed in Carragher – but Jamie’s excellent form of late merits inclusion. It does mean Liverpool play with wider gaps between attack, midfield and defence, causing them to play far more direct as opposed to Brendan’s preferred compact, narrow style.
It’s something which will be addressed over time, largely through transfers, but Rodgers then needs to be afforded that time. It also means ceasing with these irreverent accusations that will no doubt raise their head during the visit of Benitez to Anfield with Chelsea. So Rodgers didn’t win the Champions League in his first season – or the Europa League. Point to the fact that he doesn’t have a squad that compares to those in the top 4, unlike Rafa in his first season. So Rodgers didn’t a domestic trophy in his first season – neither did Rafa. So Rodgers will finish outside the top 4 in his first season – so did Rafa. So Rodgers apparently spent too much on Joe Allen – but Rafa spent fair amounts on “flops” Morientes, Cisse, Sissoko, Pennant, Babel, Dossena, Keane, and Aquilani.
Some Liverpool fans are spoilt by the fact that Rafa won the Champions League in his first season. For all the credit we give to Benitez, there is no sense in condemning future managers that don’t somehow wave a magic wand, or don’t benefit from alleged ghost goals that may or may not have crossed the line. (Ironically, one visit to debatabledecisions.com and you may even believe that Rodgers is suffering the opposite extremes of bad luck, in fact).
By Marco Lopes on April 16, 2013
With Liverpool set to play host to their old manager this week, Marco Lopes explores the feelings of some fans towards the old and new regimes of management at the club.
When Rafael Benitez’s Liverpool ended 4 points away from the promised land of the Premier League title in 2008-09, the club lost a mere 2 matches the entire season. But, crucially, conspired to accumulate 11 draws, including dull goalless stalemates against Aston Villa, Fulham, Stoke (home and away) and West Ham (sound familiar?).
In similar fashion to this past week, Liverpool then managed back-to-back 0-0 draws with Fulham and West Ham, the latter producing boos at full time even though Benitez’s side stood at a dizzy height looking down at 19 teams from the summit of the table at the time. There could have been more stalemates had many a match (Sunderland, Manchester City, Chelsea, Portsmouth and Fulham as examples) not been won through the last minute heroics of Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt and super-sub Benayoun.
True, Rodgers won’t be getting any near the same sympathy by some for presiding over back-to-back goalless stalemates by comparison. After all, he didn’t somehow win the Champions League in his first season. Nor does Rodgers have a FA Cup trophy in the cabinet as well as collateral to protect against his critics. Rodgers’ side isn’t sitting in the top 6, let alone fighting neck and neck for 1st place like Rafa did in that one season.
But predictably, despite the gradual, visible improvements in Liverpool over the course of the season, the knives are once again out for Rodgers after his side conspired to draw two matches in a row against opposition that a slightly above average team in transition are supposed to pummel as if they’re winning the Premier League every week.
Rafa In
Results like the 0-0 draw away to the league’s bottom club already do much to discredit Brendan. I feel sympathy for Rodgers – it’s not the best time to play host Rafa, who is still so loved and revered by many a Liverpool fan. Benitez’s Liverpool career, for its lack of trophies relative to its decadence in transfer spending produced significant charmed highlights, especially in Europe. What Liverpool fan didn’t enjoy beating Real Madrid 5-0 over two legs in Europe? When Liverpool reached the finals of 2005 and 2007, they did so with weaker squads relative to other teams.
Benitez “got” the club. His time there stands as an antithesis to disconnected managers like Hodgson, and even to an extent Houllier. Rafa fought battles on and off the pitch. He supported those involved with the fight for justice over Hillsborough. He contested the club’s health under the poisonous reign of Hicks and Gillett. His Liverpool side, featuring both extremes of the talent spectrum (Torres and El Zhar anyone?), largely overachieved given the lack of resources / size of clubs of the era comparatively.
Queue this weekend – Rafa’s return to Anfield in Chelsea blue will appear almost perverse to some. And in the context of Liverpool’s recent form, many fans have once again posed the thought that FSG should have appointed Benitez last summer, or should do so in the summer coming.
Rodgers Out
After all, why wouldn’t Rafa do a better job than Rodgers? To criticise Rodgers is against the spirit of good Liverpool results, but now that in the last 2 games only 2 points have been collected from a “guaranteed” 6, why shouldn’t we lambast the young manager? Some Liverpool fans even suggest that they won’t need to criticise Rodgers – his results will show up his weaknesses and lack of aptitude as a Liverpool manager.
And for all his charismatic footballing anecdotes, Rodgers clearly has fallen short of Liverpool standards, hasn’t he? The team exited both domestic cup competitions (one to the eventual winners, the other due to a complacent performance against a smaller club). They conspired to exit Europe before even reaching the final 8 of the Europa League, effectively ending all hopes for silverware. And 7th place is hardly consolation for a club like Liverpool, is it?
Except that all of that, while factual in certain respects, is important to understand in context, especially when comparing to Rafa. When Rafa took over, he inherited a far better side than Rodgers did. He didn’t inherit a club that other clubs have now chosen to exploit with ludicrous transfer demands because of over-spending the summer before. Rafa came with more years of experience, having spent a few more years than Rodgers cutting his management teeth before managing that Valencia side that won the league title in 2002 and 2004. That Valencia side, previously managed by Hector Cuper, had managed to reach consecutive Champions League finals the seasons before. It had established and rising stars like Ruben Baraja, Canizares, Roberto Ayala and Pablo Aimar.
Benitez’s arrival at Valencia was fortuitous given the team and resources he had available, but nonetheless Benitez produced an aggressive and defensively disciplined team, building on the work of Cuper before him. That’s not to diminish Rafa’s achievement; league titles don’t win themselves. But by comparison, Rodgers has hardly inherited a squad remotely as balanced and strong and competitive in its own league. Rafa’s start at both Valencia and Liverpool featured much more favourable circumstances, ironically.
Rodgers In
I don’t believe enough Liverpool fans really appreciate truly the challenge that faces the current Liverpool manager. One can argue his managerial skill and whether or not he is out of his depth, but given how the squad and its performance have evolved over the course of the season, it’s important to notice the progress and blame the poor results on the right elements. Liverpool have become a far more effective attacking side under Rodgers in most cases. Last season’s hi-octane, direct style sometimes seemed a case of “bomb the ball forward and hope for the best”. Rodgers has brought in players that are more effective at penetrating defences that try and sit back against Liverpool, and the team’s attacking shape and movement is far more effective at turning dominance into goals. Two goalless draws don’t change the facts. Liverpool have pummelled their fair share of opponents this season (number of wins by 3 goals or more = 8 in the league alone). The issue, as most aptly point out, is consistency.
It wasn’t Rodgers that missed so many good chances against Reading. Suarez’s magnificent right footed bending shot near the end of the game would probably have been better served as the clinical finish he needed in the first half when his chip was headed off the line. Yes, McCarthy was outstanding in goal, but the Reading game stank of another match rank with Liverpool’s impotence in front of goal. Simply put, the game was there to be won, and it would take a supremely cynical person to ignore that Liverpool were indeed set up to win the game. The finishers didn’t do their job for once (or twice). That’s not something that can be exclusively blamed on Rodgers.
Considering the squad he inherited – which lacks depth, balance and some of the inherent technical qualities his style of play desires, Rodgers has done well to at least getting Liverpool to be dominant in most of the games they’ve played. In a previous blog, I cited how the margins have been unkind to Liverpool this season, something that Rodgers cannot take fault for. He’s made mistakes, no question. He’s been tactically stubborn and naive about certain team selections in particular. But he’s prepared the team well enough to compete and win in most of the games they’ve played this season.
That they haven’t won isn’t just about him – it’s about the players as well. He’s also amended the tactical style to suit the players he has, rather than the style he wants to force on them. Doing that, however, exposes other vulnerabilities. For example, Liverpool have to sit deeper in defence to accommodate the lack of speed in Carragher – but Jamie’s excellent form of late merits inclusion. It does mean Liverpool play with wider gaps between attack, midfield and defence, causing them to play far more direct as opposed to Brendan’s preferred compact, narrow style.
It’s something which will be addressed over time, largely through transfers, but Rodgers then needs to be afforded that time. It also means ceasing with these irreverent accusations that will no doubt raise their head during the visit of Benitez to Anfield with Chelsea. So Rodgers didn’t win the Champions League in his first season – or the Europa League. Point to the fact that he doesn’t have a squad that compares to those in the top 4, unlike Rafa in his first season. So Rodgers didn’t a domestic trophy in his first season – neither did Rafa. So Rodgers will finish outside the top 4 in his first season – so did Rafa. So Rodgers apparently spent too much on Joe Allen – but Rafa spent fair amounts on “flops” Morientes, Cisse, Sissoko, Pennant, Babel, Dossena, Keane, and Aquilani.
Some Liverpool fans are spoilt by the fact that Rafa won the Champions League in his first season. For all the credit we give to Benitez, there is no sense in condemning future managers that don’t somehow wave a magic wand, or don’t benefit from alleged ghost goals that may or may not have crossed the line. (Ironically, one visit to debatabledecisions.com and you may even believe that Rodgers is suffering the opposite extremes of bad luck, in fact).
Cheesecake
Senior Member
Back to the Future
Liverpool cannot afford to keep going with the knee-jerk reactions. I for one hope that the patronising tweets aimed at John W Henry do not force his hand to sack Rodgers if nothing else for the financial and cultural impact it will have on the club. Nazareth Da Gamas excellent piece on Liverpools finances highlights that parting company with Rafa (£7.78m), Hodgson (£8.39m), Kenny and Comolli (£9.8m) and their respective teams cost the club in excess of £24m and all that occurred in the last 3 years. Is it really good sense to dismiss Rodgers?
Consider the financial and footballing impact of each new regime bringing with it dramatic changes Hodgson damaged the clubs core and disenchanted some of its most important players, while bringing in poorer players. Kenny and Comolli overspent on players and ultimately left an unbalanced and overpriced squad to Rodgers that was never going to deliver results relative to its value. As the cliché goes, a new broom sweeps clean, and while Rodgers has improved certain players and bought some decent talent of his own, his own style and regime makes the Rafa years unrecognisable even though they were a mere 3 years from today.
The truth of the matter is that for all the petty comparisons we can make between Rodgers and Rafa, the club is in need of stability and that means sticking with Rodgers, and trusting what hes trying to do. There are no guarantees that Rafa will work out a second time Kenny didnt work out perfectly, for example. Rafas record since leaving Liverpool hasnt exactly endeared him as such a strong candidate when compared to other managers either. Benitez doesnt appear exactly enthralled by his current circumstances and while Chelsea have had good cup runs and are within touching distance of the top 4, they are hardly playing like the force they were under Mourinho, Hiddink or Ancelotti.
As for Rodgers, Liverpool fans would do well to back him and be patient. Those well informed supporters will recognise this as the true season of transition and next season as the pivotal one by which we judge Brendan on results. Hodgsons time was masked as a season of transition what happened of the pitch was more crucial to the future. Kennys season nearly looked the one of transition but instead it left more questions than answers, and only added to the complexities preventing the club from moving forward. Since Rafas departure, the Top 4 has become a Top 5 + 2 (at least, thats the only way to realistically justify Liverpool and Evertons inclusion in the hierarchy) so that means Rodgers job is also much harder than the others had it.
The club is one of the richest in Europe, but 5th richest in England. It has spent plenty of transfer money, but its also been far less effective at seeing a return on those transfers compared to other clubs with less money (e.g. Tottenham). The club has top level expectations set upon a squad of players, some of which capture our hearts with passion and determination, but play alongside others who would barely justify warming a bench at Old Trafford or the Etihad Stadium. The club has fans who happily call those in Chelsea plastic but some demand a 5th manager in as many years due to short term perspectives.
Time to back the manager. Rodgers first season hasnt been great, but those with context knew that would be the case. Pay attention to all the positive nuances. The way the team dominates most opponents. The way the goals flow when the plan works as it should. The way weve seen the best form appear out of new heroes, and old. The true promise of youth in abundance, compared to 2-3 years ago, when a youngster with serious potential seemed to be all too a rare a thing for Liverpool. And a footballing culture, a philosophy of playing, integrated with the way the club scouts and buys new players, that is shaping the club to be something formidable in the future.
Ill believe in that and try and avoid the nonsensical comparisons to Rafa this week. Rafa had his time, and he wont be walking alone. But if someone needs that kind of support from Liverpool fans, its Rodgers. I hope he gets it.
curry sauce!!
Liverpool cannot afford to keep going with the knee-jerk reactions. I for one hope that the patronising tweets aimed at John W Henry do not force his hand to sack Rodgers if nothing else for the financial and cultural impact it will have on the club. Nazareth Da Gamas excellent piece on Liverpools finances highlights that parting company with Rafa (£7.78m), Hodgson (£8.39m), Kenny and Comolli (£9.8m) and their respective teams cost the club in excess of £24m and all that occurred in the last 3 years. Is it really good sense to dismiss Rodgers?
Consider the financial and footballing impact of each new regime bringing with it dramatic changes Hodgson damaged the clubs core and disenchanted some of its most important players, while bringing in poorer players. Kenny and Comolli overspent on players and ultimately left an unbalanced and overpriced squad to Rodgers that was never going to deliver results relative to its value. As the cliché goes, a new broom sweeps clean, and while Rodgers has improved certain players and bought some decent talent of his own, his own style and regime makes the Rafa years unrecognisable even though they were a mere 3 years from today.
The truth of the matter is that for all the petty comparisons we can make between Rodgers and Rafa, the club is in need of stability and that means sticking with Rodgers, and trusting what hes trying to do. There are no guarantees that Rafa will work out a second time Kenny didnt work out perfectly, for example. Rafas record since leaving Liverpool hasnt exactly endeared him as such a strong candidate when compared to other managers either. Benitez doesnt appear exactly enthralled by his current circumstances and while Chelsea have had good cup runs and are within touching distance of the top 4, they are hardly playing like the force they were under Mourinho, Hiddink or Ancelotti.
As for Rodgers, Liverpool fans would do well to back him and be patient. Those well informed supporters will recognise this as the true season of transition and next season as the pivotal one by which we judge Brendan on results. Hodgsons time was masked as a season of transition what happened of the pitch was more crucial to the future. Kennys season nearly looked the one of transition but instead it left more questions than answers, and only added to the complexities preventing the club from moving forward. Since Rafas departure, the Top 4 has become a Top 5 + 2 (at least, thats the only way to realistically justify Liverpool and Evertons inclusion in the hierarchy) so that means Rodgers job is also much harder than the others had it.
The club is one of the richest in Europe, but 5th richest in England. It has spent plenty of transfer money, but its also been far less effective at seeing a return on those transfers compared to other clubs with less money (e.g. Tottenham). The club has top level expectations set upon a squad of players, some of which capture our hearts with passion and determination, but play alongside others who would barely justify warming a bench at Old Trafford or the Etihad Stadium. The club has fans who happily call those in Chelsea plastic but some demand a 5th manager in as many years due to short term perspectives.
Time to back the manager. Rodgers first season hasnt been great, but those with context knew that would be the case. Pay attention to all the positive nuances. The way the team dominates most opponents. The way the goals flow when the plan works as it should. The way weve seen the best form appear out of new heroes, and old. The true promise of youth in abundance, compared to 2-3 years ago, when a youngster with serious potential seemed to be all too a rare a thing for Liverpool. And a footballing culture, a philosophy of playing, integrated with the way the club scouts and buys new players, that is shaping the club to be something formidable in the future.
Ill believe in that and try and avoid the nonsensical comparisons to Rafa this week. Rafa had his time, and he wont be walking alone. But if someone needs that kind of support from Liverpool fans, its Rodgers. I hope he gets it.
curry sauce!!
Cheesecake
Senior Member
[vid]6-bc0wWMNT0[/vid]
12 years ago today Gary McAllister scored this amazing free kick!
12 years ago today Gary McAllister scored this amazing free kick!
photo-orama
New Member
Awesome..
roDz
Senior Member
Cisse was not RB signing..he was Houllier's signing just before he got sacked..article send by bro CC only serve to rally fans behind BR..not everyone has the same opinion..im not convince with BR..im sure im not alone just like BR supporters..im sure there are many too..
YNWA
YNWA
photo-orama
New Member
Cisse was indeed Houllier's earmarked transfer target and signed 1 week after he was fired. So were:
[1999]
OUT: Paul Ince, David James, Jason McAteer, Rob Jones, Tony Warner and Steve Harkness, Steve McManaman
IN: Sami Hyypiä, Dietmar Hamann, Stéphane Henchoz, Vladimír Šmicer, Sander Westerveld, Titi Camara, Eric Meijer and Djimi Traoré
[2000]
OUT: David Thompson, Phil Babb, Dominic Matteo, Steve Staunton, Brad Friedel and Stig Inge Bjørnebye
IN: Markus Babbel, Nicky Barmby, Pegguy Arphexad, Grégory Vignal, Emile Heskey, Gary McAllister, Igor Bišćan and Christian Ziege
[2002]
IN: El Hadji Diouf (Lens, £10 million), Salif Diao (Sedan, £5 million) and Bruno Cheyrou (Lille, £4 million)
My Point: Look at the number of players Houllier bought... BR's lack of CV, lack of scout network, or lack of plan B can be argued, but he is like a janitor, having to clean other's mess, inheriting a squad that has players with overpaid salaries, under-delivering etc etc. He was given a small budget and asked to clean the house! Maybe after cleaning the house he might be fired for "not delivering a higher place", but lets be honest about this: there was cleaning to be done and he seems to be doing it just fine!
[1999]
OUT: Paul Ince, David James, Jason McAteer, Rob Jones, Tony Warner and Steve Harkness, Steve McManaman
IN: Sami Hyypiä, Dietmar Hamann, Stéphane Henchoz, Vladimír Šmicer, Sander Westerveld, Titi Camara, Eric Meijer and Djimi Traoré
[2000]
OUT: David Thompson, Phil Babb, Dominic Matteo, Steve Staunton, Brad Friedel and Stig Inge Bjørnebye
IN: Markus Babbel, Nicky Barmby, Pegguy Arphexad, Grégory Vignal, Emile Heskey, Gary McAllister, Igor Bišćan and Christian Ziege
[2002]
IN: El Hadji Diouf (Lens, £10 million), Salif Diao (Sedan, £5 million) and Bruno Cheyrou (Lille, £4 million)
My Point: Look at the number of players Houllier bought... BR's lack of CV, lack of scout network, or lack of plan B can be argued, but he is like a janitor, having to clean other's mess, inheriting a squad that has players with overpaid salaries, under-delivering etc etc. He was given a small budget and asked to clean the house! Maybe after cleaning the house he might be fired for "not delivering a higher place", but lets be honest about this: there was cleaning to be done and he seems to be doing it just fine!
Cheesecake
Senior Member
i'm more than willing to give BR time, due to the fact that the scale of his job is enormous and he has a battle on his hands, getting rid of excesses and deadwoods. likewise, i'm very realistic about our chances and the sorry state the club is in after excesses made by previous employments.
I've been VERY impressed with the progress LFC have made in the less than 1 season's timeframe while he's here.
I'm very certain we are on the path to something greater. yes, title challenge next season is a reality if we can sell off skirtie, downing and replace these players with the right bargain signings.
get over it. we do not have that much $$ and we no longer have much pulling power in the transfer market to demand an INSTANT upheaval of results!
I don't need anymore convincing that BR can take LFC to a new era and I'm very willing to give him time like I do with all new managers in LFC.
toxicboy
Member
I am with brudders Cheesecake & Photo-rama - BR to stay!
And I reiterate the fact that I supported Liverpool from young because the culture was always honest, hardworking and dedicated.
Pool fan's appreciate such traits - just look at Carra - he is no wizard on the ball, no sprinter, but is always diligent, gives 200% in training and on the pitch, lays down his life for the club. The lesser known examples of Dirk Kuyt, Mascherano, Finnan, Lucas Leiva, and now Henderson and Downing... these are no maestros, but whenever we called upon them, they never fail to put their heart and soul into each game for the club. To a great extent if you subtracted the passing ability from Gerrard and Alonso, they will also just be left with these traits.
I for one believe as true Liverpool supporters, this is the very spirit of the Liverbird - every game, every manager, every season, the Reds will have my undying support, my unwavering faith, because we are simply just such a team. We thrive on hope, which we attempt to achieve through hard work, blood, sweat, tears, whatever it takes. We may be down, but we are never out.
YNWA my bros.
And I reiterate the fact that I supported Liverpool from young because the culture was always honest, hardworking and dedicated.
Pool fan's appreciate such traits - just look at Carra - he is no wizard on the ball, no sprinter, but is always diligent, gives 200% in training and on the pitch, lays down his life for the club. The lesser known examples of Dirk Kuyt, Mascherano, Finnan, Lucas Leiva, and now Henderson and Downing... these are no maestros, but whenever we called upon them, they never fail to put their heart and soul into each game for the club. To a great extent if you subtracted the passing ability from Gerrard and Alonso, they will also just be left with these traits.
I for one believe as true Liverpool supporters, this is the very spirit of the Liverbird - every game, every manager, every season, the Reds will have my undying support, my unwavering faith, because we are simply just such a team. We thrive on hope, which we attempt to achieve through hard work, blood, sweat, tears, whatever it takes. We may be down, but we are never out.
YNWA my bros.
fotoudavid
Senior Member
Well say bro!!
Yes i hate downing but i never hate his attitude!
I will always support the team, players except downing, and managers. Even if Rafa come back, i will still support, because this is what makes the Liverpool different from the other teams, we win, lose, cry, hate, laugh, happy, sad and frustrated as one, always not alone!!!
You never walk alone!!!
Cheesecake
Senior Member
If raf999 do indeed return, i wil stil support him as a true LFC fan will. Clean slate.
Jus tat it ain't happening for a no. Of years at least.
roDz
Senior Member
Where have we really progress? League table? That could be due to the team getting knocked out very early in all cups competition & nothing else to play for..that too is not a progress as we should be beating teams lower than us easily coz the single reason being its the only games left..league games! Not given budget is no reason..when BR was given money, he signed Borini..Allen..currently Carroll is better & fitter than Borini..Henderson is doing much better than Allen..Borini & Allen didnt come cheap!
No doubt BR will surely be given another season..but im sure i will still be right come this time next season..that BR is juz never good enough..cheap doesnt always be bad but usually arent that good..thats how i see BR..
Im still a diehard LFC fan even if some people think only they are..i want the best for the team but something is just not up to the mark..
YNWA
No doubt BR will surely be given another season..but im sure i will still be right come this time next season..that BR is juz never good enough..cheap doesnt always be bad but usually arent that good..thats how i see BR..
Im still a diehard LFC fan even if some people think only they are..i want the best for the team but something is just not up to the mark..
YNWA
toxicboy
Member
Getting better only viable 'Plan B'
It is a discussion you could set your watch to -- literally. As the electronic scoreboard at Anfield flashes ever-nearer to 90 minutes with no change to the goal tally, fingers are gnawed at. The fingernails have long gone.
Knees twitch, eyes pinball, faces are contorted and scratched. Murmurings start quietly, gather urgency and become louder. Eventually it is shouted by name and snowballs; it is repeated, mantra-like, well beyond the final whistle: Plan B.
In the absence of victory, there is inevitability about the dissection of Liverpool's Plan B and the supposed lack of it. It is borne from a desire to see Brendan Rodgers’ side do something different, to conjure another method of breaking down resolute defences and concoct a different approach to win football matches. With just 13 wins this season -- following from 14 in the whole of last -- it is a track well-trodden.
There is no denying Liverpool have lacked an alternate approach to winning matches at times this season.
It is a season where they have mainly shown two gears: exhibitionism and exasperation. Never do the two merge; never does the former follow the latter. With a healthy lead, they swagger around the pitch, freely moving off the ball with smiles spread across their faces. Without that lead, the smiling stops; the swagger becomes a nervous, frantic sortie towards goal.
There is little else other than fireworks or frustration. Of the eight games Liverpool have won by three goals or more this season, all but two saw them at least two goals up at half-time. For all the dominating wins of threes, fours and fives against bottom-half sides, there are also showings far more tepid.
Rarely does Rodgers' side grind out a win, teeth gritted and fists clenched -- they have won just two games this season after failing to score in the first half. On both occasions, Wigan at home and Aston Villa away, they registered a goal within two minutes of the restart.
When early, scene-setting goals fail to materialise, so does a Liverpool side at their most impressive in full flow. It is during these struggles, the constant clambering up a wall never-ending, that the necessity for a Plan B is mooted.
An understandable yearning, but also one that has become cliché; Plan B is an answer to a question nobody asked, a nondescript solution to an obvious problem. With two consecutive failures in front of goal against bottom-half sides, more calls for the fabled contingency plan.
On a basic level, the notion of Plan B is ludicrous. Managers should have more than one plan for innumerable fortuities football throws up; never should they limit their preparation to one final roll of a dice, for the dice should always be tight in their palm. Football is an organic sport; it fluctuates every minute, every misplaced pass and erratic shot on goal shifts the narrative once more. It is not clinical and does not follow a formula simple to solve.
That is not to say things cannot be improved. Indeed, there is a lot of improvement required. Two gears so wildly different are not a stable platform for success; of the successful sides that have two ways of playing, they are simply set to stun and kill.
No such barbarism from Liverpool yet. The style of football proclaimed by Rodgers can, at times, be regarded as one-dimensional. In games where the breakthrough hasn't come early on, there has been little change in approach, a forlorn hope that what failed to work the previous hour might work in the remaining 30 minutes. It rarely does.
But that does not facilitate the introduction of a formalised Plan B -- it simply means Liverpool’'s default style of play should look to be improved tirelessly. It means they require more players in the design of Luis Suarez and Philippe Coutinho, players who can shift a game's pendulum with a brisk swing of their boot. They need players who have the mentality to keep scrambling for a goal, regardless of how unlikely it seems. The prodding and poking of the opposition should be relentless, a building of pressure too strong to contain.
Of course, when Plan B is mentioned, some simply use it as a byword to introduce an entirely different style of play. If a defence cannot be run through, then look to go over its head. When Andy Carroll was loaned to West Ham last summer, tears gushed along the gutters of Anfield as the departure of Plan B was lamented. Liverpool would have had more success against West Ham and Reading, some say, with a big man up front to launch balls to.
By using Carroll, or any other beanpole brute up front, it negates the aforementioned South American duo's ability with ball at feet. It also negates any subtlety to Liverpool’s play -- defending against a 0-0 with runners from deep is far more difficult than the same ball being pumped into the box. Hail Mary, hail predictability.
To look to bombard sides aerially is a mind-set far too simplistic: Liverpool have scored seven headed goals this season, one less than the entirety of last season. The absence of strikers with anvil foreheads is clearly not being felt too harshly, particularly given Liverpool have scored 59 goals this season. The issue is that a number of those 59 goals come early or not at all.
Alas, there is no sense in contemplating something so dichotomised to everything else being taught at the club. It is not yet time to make bonfires of playbooks, no matter how much or little progress has been made.
Liverpool do not need a Plan B - they simply need to be better. They need to learn how to keep their composure when a goal does not come early, how to keep the pressure mounting and leave the opposition sprawled on the turf. They need to discover the art of rolled sleeves, dirty knees and sweat-saturated brows. They must learn Plan A and all its intricacies long before they begin to implement another style.
To do that, they need a bigger squad. A few months ago, Liverpool’s bench looked bountiful. How time changes so quickly. Raheem Sterling and Suso have both stagnated since signing new contracts; Jonjo Shelvey is lacking match fitness; injuries to Fabio Borini and Joe Allen - no matter how their first seasons have disappointed - reduce options even further. Rodgers has had to turn to Oussama Assaidi, left out in the cold for so long icicles have formed in his boots. Now back in the blistering heat of Premier League football, the Moroccan of ill manners looks out of his depth.
Football is not formulaic, but here is something that keeps the abacus upright: better teams have better players to call upon. It is not a change of style that might see Liverpool break rusty deadlocks, but a change of personnel. Plan B, Plan Z and everything in-between needs to be simply getting better at Plan A.
curry sauce!
I read this blog often - it is pretty good, so am sharing with you bros!
It is a discussion you could set your watch to -- literally. As the electronic scoreboard at Anfield flashes ever-nearer to 90 minutes with no change to the goal tally, fingers are gnawed at. The fingernails have long gone.
Knees twitch, eyes pinball, faces are contorted and scratched. Murmurings start quietly, gather urgency and become louder. Eventually it is shouted by name and snowballs; it is repeated, mantra-like, well beyond the final whistle: Plan B.
In the absence of victory, there is inevitability about the dissection of Liverpool's Plan B and the supposed lack of it. It is borne from a desire to see Brendan Rodgers’ side do something different, to conjure another method of breaking down resolute defences and concoct a different approach to win football matches. With just 13 wins this season -- following from 14 in the whole of last -- it is a track well-trodden.
There is no denying Liverpool have lacked an alternate approach to winning matches at times this season.
It is a season where they have mainly shown two gears: exhibitionism and exasperation. Never do the two merge; never does the former follow the latter. With a healthy lead, they swagger around the pitch, freely moving off the ball with smiles spread across their faces. Without that lead, the smiling stops; the swagger becomes a nervous, frantic sortie towards goal.
There is little else other than fireworks or frustration. Of the eight games Liverpool have won by three goals or more this season, all but two saw them at least two goals up at half-time. For all the dominating wins of threes, fours and fives against bottom-half sides, there are also showings far more tepid.
Rarely does Rodgers' side grind out a win, teeth gritted and fists clenched -- they have won just two games this season after failing to score in the first half. On both occasions, Wigan at home and Aston Villa away, they registered a goal within two minutes of the restart.
When early, scene-setting goals fail to materialise, so does a Liverpool side at their most impressive in full flow. It is during these struggles, the constant clambering up a wall never-ending, that the necessity for a Plan B is mooted.
An understandable yearning, but also one that has become cliché; Plan B is an answer to a question nobody asked, a nondescript solution to an obvious problem. With two consecutive failures in front of goal against bottom-half sides, more calls for the fabled contingency plan.
On a basic level, the notion of Plan B is ludicrous. Managers should have more than one plan for innumerable fortuities football throws up; never should they limit their preparation to one final roll of a dice, for the dice should always be tight in their palm. Football is an organic sport; it fluctuates every minute, every misplaced pass and erratic shot on goal shifts the narrative once more. It is not clinical and does not follow a formula simple to solve.
That is not to say things cannot be improved. Indeed, there is a lot of improvement required. Two gears so wildly different are not a stable platform for success; of the successful sides that have two ways of playing, they are simply set to stun and kill.
No such barbarism from Liverpool yet. The style of football proclaimed by Rodgers can, at times, be regarded as one-dimensional. In games where the breakthrough hasn't come early on, there has been little change in approach, a forlorn hope that what failed to work the previous hour might work in the remaining 30 minutes. It rarely does.
But that does not facilitate the introduction of a formalised Plan B -- it simply means Liverpool’'s default style of play should look to be improved tirelessly. It means they require more players in the design of Luis Suarez and Philippe Coutinho, players who can shift a game's pendulum with a brisk swing of their boot. They need players who have the mentality to keep scrambling for a goal, regardless of how unlikely it seems. The prodding and poking of the opposition should be relentless, a building of pressure too strong to contain.
Of course, when Plan B is mentioned, some simply use it as a byword to introduce an entirely different style of play. If a defence cannot be run through, then look to go over its head. When Andy Carroll was loaned to West Ham last summer, tears gushed along the gutters of Anfield as the departure of Plan B was lamented. Liverpool would have had more success against West Ham and Reading, some say, with a big man up front to launch balls to.
By using Carroll, or any other beanpole brute up front, it negates the aforementioned South American duo's ability with ball at feet. It also negates any subtlety to Liverpool’s play -- defending against a 0-0 with runners from deep is far more difficult than the same ball being pumped into the box. Hail Mary, hail predictability.
To look to bombard sides aerially is a mind-set far too simplistic: Liverpool have scored seven headed goals this season, one less than the entirety of last season. The absence of strikers with anvil foreheads is clearly not being felt too harshly, particularly given Liverpool have scored 59 goals this season. The issue is that a number of those 59 goals come early or not at all.
Alas, there is no sense in contemplating something so dichotomised to everything else being taught at the club. It is not yet time to make bonfires of playbooks, no matter how much or little progress has been made.
Liverpool do not need a Plan B - they simply need to be better. They need to learn how to keep their composure when a goal does not come early, how to keep the pressure mounting and leave the opposition sprawled on the turf. They need to discover the art of rolled sleeves, dirty knees and sweat-saturated brows. They must learn Plan A and all its intricacies long before they begin to implement another style.
To do that, they need a bigger squad. A few months ago, Liverpool’s bench looked bountiful. How time changes so quickly. Raheem Sterling and Suso have both stagnated since signing new contracts; Jonjo Shelvey is lacking match fitness; injuries to Fabio Borini and Joe Allen - no matter how their first seasons have disappointed - reduce options even further. Rodgers has had to turn to Oussama Assaidi, left out in the cold for so long icicles have formed in his boots. Now back in the blistering heat of Premier League football, the Moroccan of ill manners looks out of his depth.
Football is not formulaic, but here is something that keeps the abacus upright: better teams have better players to call upon. It is not a change of style that might see Liverpool break rusty deadlocks, but a change of personnel. Plan B, Plan Z and everything in-between needs to be simply getting better at Plan A.
curry sauce!
I read this blog often - it is pretty good, so am sharing with you bros!
Last edited:
We have progress? I seriously doubt so.
Rather, we are a step-down from Dalglish period of reign.
Players attitude? They give it all??
Check out players who walk on the field & players who give up chasing.
Even when the opponent is near every games.
Sorry guys. I still totally disagree Benitez won us the Champion League.
No no no..
Benitez manage Liverpool again? NO way!
I wouldnt say everyone hates him. But there's a significant % of fan who dun like him.
Rodgers need to instill a winning mentality onto himself.
Then onto the whole freaking teams. A DRAW is not acceptable.
Rather, we are a step-down from Dalglish period of reign.
Players attitude? They give it all??
Check out players who walk on the field & players who give up chasing.
Even when the opponent is near every games.
Sorry guys. I still totally disagree Benitez won us the Champion League.
No no no..
Benitez manage Liverpool again? NO way!
I wouldnt say everyone hates him. But there's a significant % of fan who dun like him.
Rodgers need to instill a winning mentality onto himself.
Then onto the whole freaking teams. A DRAW is not acceptable.
Cheesecake
Senior Member
Sunday's big game against chel$ki!!! 
roDz
Senior Member
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ul-David-De-Gea-angers-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html
Now isnt that plan B?
Now isnt that plan B?
toxicboy
Member
With BR's tactics... Carroll will still be playing out Plan A, just offering a bit more brute strength up front.
On another day, he would have been sent off if Fergie fogey had his way... and the right Manure-supporting referee. LOL
Just for discussion:
If we had Suarez + Sturridge + Coutinho up front, and you wanted to sub Carroll in, who'd you take out?
On another day, he would have been sent off if Fergie fogey had his way... and the right Manure-supporting referee. LOL
Just for discussion:
If we had Suarez + Sturridge + Coutinho up front, and you wanted to sub Carroll in, who'd you take out?
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