Why someone buy second hand lens when Grey market almost have same price for new?

[commonjunks]

Came across a few adds, selling Canon TSE-24mm with expired warranty at 2,250S$.
Whereas grey market local shop selling same lens for 2,443S$ with 1 year shop warranty.

Why someone want to buy a second hand a year old lens from someone when he/she can buy brand new untouched lens with only 200S$ difference and 1 year shop warranty?

With warranty clause:

What is Covered:
Parts and labour costs for the repair of a manufacture defect or fault of production, which resulted in the product malfunctioning.
Parts and labour costs for the repair of fault of material of the product, which resulted in the product malfunctioning.

 

[Octarine]

1) Offer and actual selling price are not necessarily the same
2) If the shop folds you are down to the same situation as when buying 2nd hand without warranty.
3) What is the real (tangible) difference between a brand new lens and a well maintained pre-loved one?

 

[kandinsky]

Maybe to some people, they'd rather have $200 cash and forgo shop warranty.

 

[commonjunks]

@Octarine, unfortunately by looking at description of seller i cannot say if he/she keeping lens with love. I have seen put gaffer tape and abuse lens and just before selling take off gaffer tape. Even i use my lens with lot of care but still they get knocked here there when taking out from drybox or putting on table. Also dust in lens (i know dust don't impact result but believe me, i sold 2 lens and buyers were fuxing fussy about dust, want to me slash price).

@kandinsky, here seller have mentality once sold is not my problem. Although seller saying 7 days warranty we didn't sign on any document before transaction. What will happen if my lens kenna before 7 days and seller don't want to keep promise?

Not trying to judge all but just trying to understand, how seller judge their price.
Using 1 year and feel they would slash 200/300 price from the time they bought it?

 

[kandinsky]

@kandinsky, here seller have mentality once sold is not my problem. Although seller saying 7 days warranty we didn't sign on any document before transaction. What will happen if my lens kenna before 7 days and seller don't want to keep promise?

tl;dr: It's a free market. Don't like, don't buy.

-----------

Every seller is different, some may honour their word, others may not. What will happen? Then you're screwed lah ;p

So if that's a situation you don't want to risk, then just buy the warrantied option for peace of mind. Nobody is forcing you to buy 2nd hand.

You have to realize that other buyers may not mind taking that risk in exchange for some savings. Even if it's only $200. It's their choice right?

Not trying to judge all but just trying to understand, how seller judge their price.
Using 1 year and feel they would slash 200/300 price from the time they bought it?

Some may price very conservatively if they believe their item is in mint condition (at as little loss as possible). If nobody shows interest, and they are serious about selling it, then they might repost at a lower price until someone shows interest. Or they might decide it's not worth selling and decide to keep it.

Others may price low if they want to let go of the item urgently.

There's no right or wrong. Willing seller, willing buyer. If you don't like the offered price, think it's not worth it for whatever reason, you are welcome to move on and get a new grey copy from a shop. If the rest of the market agrees that it's overpriced, you'll probably see that seller repost the item at a lower price.

 

[kei1309]

Lenses don't depreciate in value like camera bodies.

Going by your example stated, old lenses like 50 year-old Leicas would be worth nothing.

 

[JacePhoto]

Came across a few adds, selling Canon TSE-24mm with expired warranty at 2,250S$.
Whereas grey market local shop selling same lens for 2,443S$ with 1 year shop warranty.

Why someone want to buy a second hand a year old lens from someone when he/she can buy brand new untouched lens with only 200S$ difference and 1 year shop warranty?

With warranty clause:

What is Covered:
Parts and labour costs for the repair of a manufacture defect or fault of production, which resulted in the product malfunctioning.
Parts and labour costs for the repair of fault of material of the product, which resulted in the product malfunctioning.

Good reminder! Let me check the grey market before getting anything else!

 

[pinholecam]

To me, just let the market forces decide.

Its really hard to tell anything since we are not the seller.
Maybe he got it when prices were higher.
Or maybe he really thinks he can make money from an old lens.
Who knows?


IMO, don't need to know.
Just decide if its worth it to buy or not.
That decision and power is up to the buyer.

 

[Blur Shadow]

It's probably just information asymmetry.

 

[Jedi]

TS, you need to find such seller in order to get a good deal?

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1476042

Mint condition EF 16-13mm mark II selling at $1,000. He has broken the record in CS history.

To put it bluntly, this seller is a sucker or rather pointed out by one member that he has asymmetric information.

 

[Blur Shadow]

That's Santa in disguise...!

 

[devilry]

Another marvellous example is the 5D Mark III.

Brand new local set: about $4,150. (With canon warranty)
Brand new Grey set: $3,179 (with shop warranty)

2nd hand price: $2,900 to $3,000

Since the 2nd hand body already has no more warranty, this makes the grey set a better choice since u pay abt $200+ for a brand new set with warranty, as compared to the 2nd hand item (which isn't new anymore).
=========================================================

Another interesting way to look at the situation:
- It may seems like the seller of the 5d mark iii has already lose a lot (about 30% from $4,150 to $3,000) when selling away. Unfortunately, the pricing to sell it off should be based on the grey set price and not the local set price. So 30% off $3,179 is about $2,100. $2,100 should be the 2nd hand price of 5d mark iii.


- the grey set is essentially a camera covered by canon warranty in other countries, and just not singapore. In hong kong, u can buy a 1yr canon warranty set for $3,000, but why are we paying $4,150? the camera product is the same whether in hong kong or singapore, the only difference is the warranty - we are paying $1,000 (almost 30% of the hong kong set price) for warranty? Ridiculous isn't it?

- Shipping and GST is just a tiny factor for the $1,000 difference, so these 2 factors are not good excuses..

 

[daredevil123]

Another marvellous example is the 5D Mark III.

Brand new local set: about $4,150. (With canon warranty)
Brand new Grey set: $3,179 (with shop warranty)

2nd hand price: $2,900 to $3,000

Since the 2nd hand body already has no more warranty, this makes the grey set a better choice since u pay abt $200+ for a brand new set with warranty, as compared to the 2nd hand item (which isn't new anymore).
=========================================================

Another interesting way to look at the situation:
- It may seems like the seller of the 5d mark iii has already lose a lot (about 30% from $4,150 to $3,000) when selling away. Unfortunately, the pricing to sell it off should be based on the grey set price and not the local set price. So 30% off $3,179 is about $2,100. $2,100 should be the 2nd hand price of 5d mark iii.

- the grey set is essentially a camera covered by canon warranty in other countries, and just not singapore. In hong kong, u can buy a 1yr canon warranty set for $3,000, but why are we paying $4,150? the camera product is the same whether in hong kong or singapore, the only difference is the warranty - we are paying $1,000 (almost 30% of the hong kong set price) for warranty? Ridiculous isn't it?

- Shipping and GST is just a tiny factor for the $1,000 difference, so these 2 factors are not good excuses..

There is no definite way to say what the price of a used set should be. In the end it is all about demand and supply.

And no, if you get a grey set (water goods) in hk, it is not covered by any warranty anywhere in the world not even in hk.

 

[txn929]

1) Offer and actual selling price are not necessarily the same
2) If the shop folds you are down to the same situation as when buying 2nd hand without warranty.
3) What is the real (tangible) difference between a brand new lens and a well maintained pre-loved one?

1) OK
2) If is only If. However, situation is not same. Buyer still get NEW len without warranty.
3) Footworn gear and invisible scratch on optical parts can make difference? Tangible or not is not important, but the quality should be totally different.

 

[Octarine]

1)3) Footworn gear and invisible scratch on optical parts can make difference? Tangible or not is not important, but the quality should be totally different.

You wear your lenses on your feet?
How do you spot invisible scratches?
What is the difference in quality if there are no tangible differences between a 2nd hand lens and a brand new?
It seems you are just fallen for the illusion of something being 'brand new' instead of looking at the facts. Your choice, of course.

 

[txn929]

You wear your lenses on your feet?
How do you spot invisible scratches?
What is the difference in quality if there are no tangible differences between a 2nd hand lens and a brand new?
It seems you are just fallen for the illusion of something being 'brand new' instead of looking at the facts. Your choice, of course.

Sorry "footworn" is just idiom, what I mean is the gear inside will be abraded after long time of use.
About the scratches, even it is not visible with your eyes, but it's good condition for fungus, dust...

Why do you need to send your car to service periodically even if there are no tangible damages?
You answer yourself lah. Same situation here.

I don't fall into any illusion - you are the one ignore the facts.
Of course, it's my choice.

 

[kei1309]

Sorry "footworn" is just idiom, what I mean is the gear inside will be abraded after long time of use.
About the scratches, even it is not visible with your eyes, but it's good condition for fungus, dust...

Why do you need to send your car to service periodically even if there are no tangible damages?
You answer yourself lah. Same situation here.

and btw, footworn means "worn down by the feet". please use your idioms correctly.
I don't fall into any illusion - you are the one ignore the facts.
Of course, it's my choice.

if you can't see the scratches, then it won't burden you psychologically that there might be something wrong, am i right to say that?

and comparing a car to a lens? totally two different types of usage. what Octarine is talking about is the perceived quality. if both lenses brand new and second hand can be said to be almost equal in exterior appearance and condition of optics, then why should the price differ so much? and when comparing grey market items, you also have to consider that these may have defects that you can't see. i have friends who bought grey market items at a lower price, but ended up paying a lot more for repairs than those with warranty, till the cost of repairs were over the cost savings when they purchased the camera. if you're willing to live with that, then by all means purchase at your own risk.

 

[txn929]

if you can't see the scratches, then it won't burden you psychologically that there might be something wrong, am i right to say that?

and comparing a car to a lens? totally two different types of usage. what Octarine is talking about is the perceived quality. if both lenses brand new and second hand can be said to be almost equal in exterior appearance and condition of optics, then why should the price differ so much? and when comparing grey market items, you also have to consider that these may have defects that you can't see. i have friends who bought grey market items at a lower price, but ended up paying a lot more for repairs than those with warranty, till the cost of repairs were over the cost savings when they purchased the camera. if you're willing to live with that, then by all means purchase at your own risk.

- Why price differ so much: Tax and price policy for different countries. Why lens in Hongkong cheaper than in Singapore?
- Defect in grey items that you can't see: This happen to secondhand as well. My colleague sold his len just because he dropped it and worry that it may has issue in the future.
- Compare to car: I just argue " if there are no tangible differences between a 2nd hand lens and a brand new". Inside the lens also have movement parts, just like a car. Are you sure that a len used for 3 years has the same quality as a new one? Even it looks new?
- Risk to buy grey set: Yes, buying anything is risky, even with the brand new local set. No exception.

- Footworn: I apologize for this as I'm not native English speaker.

 

[catchlights]

- Why price differ so much: Tax and price policy for different countries. Why lens in Hongkong cheaper than in Singapore?
- Defect in grey items that you can't see: This happen to secondhand as well. My colleague sold his len just because he dropped it and worry that it may has issue in the future.
- Compare to car: I just argue " if there are no tangible differences between a 2nd hand lens and a brand new". Inside the lens also have movement parts, just like a car. Are you sure that a len used for 3 years has the same quality as a new one? Even it looks new?
- Risk to buy grey set: Yes, buying anything is risky, even with the brand new local set. No exception.

- Footworn: I apologize for this as I'm not native English speaker.

compare camera lenses and car is too far fetch. the wear and tear of these two is not the same.

anyway, do you know anyone drive their car only Once a week?

and

Do you know of anyone use their camera Every Day?

so end of the day, the price is still determined by supply and demand.

 

[txn929]

compare camera lenses and car is too far fetch. the wear and tear of these two is not the same.

anyway, do you know anyone drive their car only Once a week?

and

Do you know of anyone use their camera Every Day?

so end of the day, the price is still determined by supply and demand.

Dont just bind to the diffeence between car and len to argue me, just answer this: A 2ndhand len is as good as brand new one? True or false? Dont tell me that you never buy anything new? How many % of your gear is 2ndhand? Why you need to buy new item if you can buy 2ndhand easily?

Yes I know someone only use car at weekend for family trips, and most of the professional photographer/studio use their len everyday . But does it mean anything?