Why Leica?


Please forgive for digressing from the original thread.

I believe what Hacker is trying to say (please correct me if i'm wrong), we have to compare apples to apples. The Grand Seikos were made to compete with the best the Europeans have to offer, that means the Vacherons, Pateks, AP (The trinity of swiss watch making) and Langes (German).

Accuracy, yes, perhaps the Grand Seiko may be more accurate, but thats not all that matters. We perhaps look at the finishing of the case, the dial design, the finishing of the movement et al. All of the above have standards higher than a mere COSC, which is not really required anyway, its just a means to bump up the price to the consumer. I could very well be wrong, but I dont believe any of the said 4 even send the watches to be COSC certified. In terms of the overall package, to me at least, the Grand Seiko lacks the sophistication of these marque names. But in terms of valuue for money, its a great watch. I've appended some pics of the Grand Seiko movement compared to a Patek and a Lange. Movement finishing wise, there is no comparision.

seiko.jpg

Patek6000_07.jpg

DatoBk2.jpg


Rolex is a great name for dive watches. The oyster perpetual is a beautiful watch, tried and tested. That said, most divers nowadays use Seikos I believe. People buy rolexes for the name, durabiity and holdability in terms of resale price.

The movements used in the marine master is more than a match for your run of the mill ETA/Unitas movements. The rolex movement when opened is nothing much to look at, but it works. Seiko offers a big bang for the buck, but perhaps just lacks that je ne sais quoi compared to other swiss middle ranged brands such as IWC, Panerai (seiko wins the movement/accuracy contest here, but people dont really buy PAMS for that) and Omega. However that said, they compare very favourably with lower end brands such as SINN, Fortis, not saying any 4 fiigured piece is low end but relatively speaking.
 

how wld the leica fans here rate the x1 in terms of iq and in the context of leica cameras tradition?

I have a very low opinion of the x1 due to slow AF and 260k lcd which is relied upon for composition. The gxr has faster AF and has 902k pixel lcd.

In terms of leica tradition, i dont think x1 carries the rf tradition. The key advantage of rf is zonefocusing, and x1 cannot do this. The x1 is good form factor that much ill say
 

Please forgive for digressing from the original thread.

I believe what Hacker is trying to say (please correct me if i'm wrong), we have to compare apples to apples. The Grand Seikos were made to compete with the best the Europeans have to offer, that means the Vacherons, Pateks, AP (The trinity of swiss watch making) and Langes (German).

Accuracy, yes, perhaps the Grand Seiko may be more accurate, but thats not all that matters. We perhaps look at the finishing of the case, the dial design, the finishing of the movement et al. All of the above have standards higher than a mere COSC, which is not really required anyway, its just a means to bump up the price to the consumer. I could very well be wrong, but I dont believe any of the said 4 even send the watches to be COSC certified. In terms of the overall package, to me at least, the Grand Seiko lacks the sophistication of these marque names. But in terms of valuue for money, its a great watch. I've appended some pics of the Grand Seiko movement compared to a Patek and a Lange. Movement finishing wise, there is no comparision.

Rolex is a great name for dive watches. The oyster perpetual is a beautiful watch, tried and tested. That said, most divers nowadays use Seikos I believe. People buy rolexes for the name, durabiity and holdability in terms of resale price.

The movements used in the marine master is more than a match for your run of the mill ETA/Unitas movements. The rolex movement when opened is nothing much to look at, but it works. Seiko offers a big bang for the buck, but perhaps just lacks that je ne sais quoi compared to other swiss middle ranged brands such as IWC, Panerai (seiko wins the movement/accuracy contest here, but people dont really buy PAMS for that) and Omega. However that said, they compare very favourably with lower end brands such as SINN, Fortis, not saying any 4 fiigured piece is low end but relatively speaking.

Noted, let's stop the watch talk here and move on with the Leica talk:)
 

this is suppose to be discussing Leica..how come become watches ?

If some people dont get it, dont bother to explain. They will still buy seiko and casio.
 

Oop!! Sorry! Lol!
I believe the tangents went off when we were discussing why Leica. It's an emotional/heart decision as well as a head one for me. I believe I will own a Leica one day, not because I will take great shots with it, but rather the pleasure of shooting with it. Same as why a Ferrari when a QQ will do, so why a Patek when a seiko will do? They all do the same thing, albeit to varying degrees. If it doesn't put one in the dock, get a Leica if it gives you that satisfaction. To me, the process is just as gratifying.
 

I have a very low opinion of the x1 due to slow AF and 260k lcd which is relied upon for composition. The gxr has faster AF and has 902k pixel lcd.

In terms of leica tradition, i dont think x1 carries the rf tradition. The key advantage of rf is zonefocusing, and x1 cannot do this. The x1 is good form factor that much ill say

I prefer the Ricoh GRD for form factor. Its got snap focusing :thumbsup:
 

cos Leica is magical, there this image quality abt the lens and of cos German engineering which makes Leica special. Leica IMO is not just like any 'consumer' brands out there which simply floods the market with cameras and new cameras every single year. I got poisoned anyway and am saving up for an M9 with a 35mm Summicron.
 

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but don't leica film bodies hold their value better than the voigtlander ones. From the financial point of view, they might be a 'better' investment... :)
 

For street photography, you may be able to achieve the same results with another brand of rangefinder or DSLR. But for Leica lovers, it is not just the end destination, but the journey there. Leica lovers use a Leica because they like the results, as well as the feel it brings when they are shooting with a Leica M.

It's no point saying that other cameras can achieve the same shot, because Leica users like USING a Leica to achieve it. It's like traveling by car to a destination - you can reach the same place in a Toyota, but Aston Martin drivers like the feeling of a journey in their Vanquish. A chef can make do with a set of lesser knives, but they love the tactile feel of cutting with their own set of high end knives. A watch lover can tell the same time with a Seiko, but they feel better when they glance down upon a Lange.

If you always wondered why there's always this debate and discussion about using a Leica, you'd know that it is a very personal thing. Put a Leica in your hands and use it - you'd either "get it" or not. If you get it, there's no point explaining in words to others. Because it's like falling in love - you cannot explain why. You just know it.

If you don't "get it", it's completely normal as well. Probably a Leica is not for your taste. But don't go on deriding others for loving Leica. It's as sacrilegious as condemning someone for loving their choice of spouse. :)
 

Please forgive for digressing from the original thread.

I believe what Hacker is trying to say (please correct me if i'm wrong), we have to compare apples to apples. The Grand Seikos were made to compete with the best the Europeans have to offer, that means the Vacherons, Pateks, AP (The trinity of swiss watch making) and Langes (German).

Accuracy, yes, perhaps the Grand Seiko may be more accurate, but thats not all that matters. We perhaps look at the finishing of the case, the dial design, the finishing of the movement et al. All of the above have standards higher than a mere COSC, which is not really required anyway, its just a means to bump up the price to the consumer. I could very well be wrong, but I dont believe any of the said 4 even send the watches to be COSC certified. In terms of the overall package, to me at least, the Grand Seiko lacks the sophistication of these marque names. But in terms of valuue for money, its a great watch. I've appended some pics of the Grand Seiko movement compared to a Patek and a Lange. Movement finishing wise, there is no comparision.

Actually, the Seiko company is quite admirable and I think fully comparable to Lange and Patek...those of you who know me and my association with Lange will know that this is not at all a small statement. Seiko is a HUGE company. But they do make good watches. Their mechanical timepieces are made in their Morioka factory, and are comparable to middle level Swiss watches. But they do have a small division called the Micro Artisans hidden away in Shiojiri. I have visited them and I can tell you they are even more serious and crazy than the Germans and Swiss. Here is one of their work...the Credor Eichi....only 5 pieces made a year. Together with 5 pieces of the Credor Sonnerie (yes, only total 10 altogether per annum), they have 11 watchmakers.

The Credor Eichi...apologies not a RF image.

eichi-big-blended.jpg


The regular Grand Seikos, especially the Spring Drives coming from the Shiojiri factory is amazing. Very well finished.

Apologies for taking this further off topic...but please do move this to a more appropriate location if necessary.
 

Why would anyone buy an Aston Martin, Rolls Royce or Bentley when a Toyota, Honda or Mazda is more affordable and serves the same function (ie for getting you from destination A to B)?

Because they can.

In short, because of prestige and status.

The same reason why there's long snaking queues outside KOI, where people queue up 30-45 mins just for a cup of bubble tea. Because they want it, they can and its the best. What mmmel said:) haha.

Oh, is Koi so popular now??
But Koi really is better. It doesn't even take a gourmand to tell. ;)

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but don't leica film bodies hold their value better than the voigtlander ones. From the financial point of view, they might be a 'better' investment... :)

I think you're right.
And after by chance that I got a Voigtlander 125 f2.5 years ago and later found that the value has increased 3x, I have come to think of cameras and lenses as investment tools.
Especially lenses, when they stop production.

For me, purchases need to make financial sense to some degree, because I'm not printing money yet.
If something costs a great deal of money, but can hold the value, then its ok to buy it.
Because it can serve as a wealth storage device and should you be in need of money one day, you have a source.
At least it doesn't make you lose a lot of money.
Things like prestige watches, Leica (and also some other brands) cameras and lenses, gold, etc. are still worth buying.

What I cannot accept is to spend load of money on things that devalue rapidly, things like branded handbags, clothes, shoes... the nature of such things is they devalue drastically once they change hands, even worse when used.
So... its definitely Leica over LV.... haha...
 

Hi Peter,
Thank you for the wonderful insights!! That is indeed a beautiful movement. I have also truly been bitten by the red dot!!

Best Regards!
 

Just wondering if I go into any of the shops selling Leica M's (new or used) tell them I only wanna find out more about Leica RFs and will entertain me? I mean I have the intention to buy one and I'm still saving for one... I need to know more about something I am totally clueless.
 

Just wondering if I go into any of the shops selling Leica M's (new or used) tell them I only wanna find out more about Leica RFs and will entertain me? I mean I have the intention to buy one and I'm still saving for one... I need to know more about something I am totally clueless.

You can try Chiif Cameras. The man himself is passion that made him started the business as the CV man here in SIN.

I'm sure he can explain to you & everything. If not, just head to RF.SG's meet up, watch out for the thread.
 

Oic... I'd love to join the outings but in the hope that I won't have anything to do for the day.... you know, family commitments... Like the upcoming one that you are planning to have... cross my fingers i'll be able to go... :D

You can try Chiif Cameras. The man himself is passion that made him started the business as the CV man here in SIN.

I'm sure he can explain to you & everything. If not, just head to RF.SG's meet up, watch out for the thread.
 

lol how come this thread become a watch thread lololol
 

Boys will be boys! ;)
 

where do women fit in then? lol
 

gentlemen and gentle-ladies, there have been several attempts at bringing the discussion back on track to photography, cameras and lenses.

pls stick to it TS's topic. no issue if you want to use car / watch / yachts / fishing / coins / stamps / cosmetics / shoes / handbags as analogies... but the topic of discussion should center around photography, and in this forum, RF and compact cameras.
 

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