why are there so many hostile replies here in the forum?

[Azure]

Nor is anyone perfect. Everyone sees the world through a vastly different pair of eyes/lenses (not camera!). Just as everyone chooses different and often divergent ways of coming to a conclusion w.r.t. a particular thing, be it a question posed to the community at large or a picture shared. Some may offer really constructive comments, like "howabout taking a shot at X angle" or "think about this other way of using your ABC lens to better effect". Others may probably get so offended that they blast you to kingdom come. And that's where we all discover how deep or shallow the tolerances and OB markers lie.

End of the day it is how you choose to think or treat such responses. And for some of them - it takes all sorts to make this world. I say we NEED them around, however much some of us may dislike them, to show us the diversity in this world.

I still carry on with my outings, and they are still open to newbies and oldies alike. Sure, there'll be folks who grumble that its now digital-only and biased (in their opinion), but until the day such a thing is outlawed, I see no reason why I shouldn't continue to share and enjoy the company.

 

[kiwi2]

I'd like to offer a psychological account of such "hostility" that exists. I don't think u can ask pple not to sound like this or that way just as much as u can't ask someone not to litter despite all the fines we have in place here.

When someone posts a reply, the identity of that person is not revealed. This creates a sense of ego boosting leading to the "I can say what I wish to" syndrome. If u meet many of these pple in person, I think u might be surprised how mild mannered or soft-spoken they are. The analogy is like, if u got to talk to a familiar friend compared to giving a presentation to a large audience on an identical topic. Do u immediately sense a difference as to how you would sound or even choose the words to use? What more when we sit in front of these boxes without anyone seeing us. A kid can tell a big 6 ft 3 in guy to scram without any fear of verbal or physical retaliation. In psychology, they call it "social constructionism", ie our identities are dynamic in that they continually change depending on the social situations we meet. How true.

Another thing is, if one expects all experienced photographers here to help newbies despite any questions they ask, this is like expecting everyone in public to help others who are need. We know this just doesn't happen. My goodness, there are grown up men who don't even give up seats to frail old women. It's a social issue again. Who do you help and why should you? To what extent?

Other reason I can think of is that by human nature, it's so much easier to put others down than helping them from scratch. There's this sense of accomplishment for some to feel they are 'up' while the newbies are down there. But thankfully, I wouldn't think the majority in CS are like dat. Just a very small handful occasionally perhaps.

Well at the end of the day, there is goodness in everyone. Even if you find someone foul-mouth here, understand that they have parents and some are probably married with kids. There are people who love them. There're just some things we are not seeing that they don't present to us...

 

[sehsuan]

Keep smiling please. A smile a day will keep your mother-in-law away.

that's a good joke for the day to lighten up the mood! :bsmilie:

kiwi2, you're talking about Piaget & Vygotsky - educational psychology? that had me having sleepless nights for quite some time when i was taking the topics.

there were a certain few cs'ers who apparently don't know things have improved back at my home, but constantly have to pick the bone up again. but then again, with friendly mod's such as AdamGoi - he advised me not to let these things bother me, because i don't know these people in real life, so just let it be

better still... for the newbies (i'm still there myself), it's better to go out shooting with old birds and learn from them - have fun together, and perhaps a drink or plain ol' phototripping

 

[Matrix]

No point posting in suggestion box. It won't improve cos Mods themself are crossing the line. Naturally member will behave the same when they saw mods giving rude and unpresent comments.

If a newbie know everythings what the point of having this forum. I personal felt that , Mods are like role model. If they themselve can't behave in the forum how would he expect other member to behave?

If u want to be a mods and willing give good advices ,you have to bear those repeated newbies questions(be it photography or equipment related) else dun be one cos u need to read post every now and which i think is quite suffering. ;p

 

[yowch]

My contribution:

Even if we need to be critical, we can try to do it in a fair and useful way. e.g. "Your question has been asked many times, please do a search and you'll find the answer". On the contrary, a harsh and rude answer may be "you don't know how to use the search function, ah? this has been asked many times."

But I know of many people who are professing to be 'open' and 'progressive' but seeking to be told what we want to hear and not accepting criticism and harsh words in any way. I face this problem daily in my work, not with my colleagues but with outside parties of 'power' that I have to deal with.

And my last contribution is: whether our name is shown or not, we need to be responsible to what we say or do, which is the basis of freedom. It does not mean that we say what we like without punishment. It means that we will accept the consequence of our own doing, and that means freedom from a 'parent', 'moderator', 'watchdog', 'authority' and whatever.

Hopefully no one is angry with me, but I'll have to live with that.

 

[Matrix]

My contribution:

Even if we need to be critical, we can try to do it in a fair and useful way. e.g. "Your question has been asked many times, please do a search and you'll find the answer". On the contrary, a harsh and rude answer may be "you don't know how to use the search function, ah? this has been asked many times."

Good example :thumbsup:

 

[Caspere]

Something like this?

hi,
i am new to photography so please forgive me if i sound stupid.
i am kinda interested in getting the film as i would like to try out bulk film.
1. what is a roller and where can i get one?
2. how do i load the film into the camera?
please advise.
regards.

No problem. This question have been asked before. So it is easier directing you to the articles & threads rather then typing them. Here goes:

Read the following article:
http://www.clubsnap.org/display.php?file=articles/bulkloading/bulk_loading.htm

then read the following threads:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=14584

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=33864

I hope this answers all if not most of the questions.

Let me know if it helps. Cheers

 

[cafe vienna]

I must say... this IS the friendliest forum I have been on since my BBS days. I think the general consensus is that there will always be people who will respond in a manner which might provoke our sensitivities; it is difficult for the mods to monitor such behaviour. Furthermore, it is a free forum precisely so that people with problems can come and look for solutions at will.

I think if your sensitivities are breached to the point where you are not comfortable, then perhaps you should notify the mods; if tolerable, then always remember never to do it to another person.

 

[Darren]

No point posting in suggestion box. It won't improve cos Mods themself are crossing the line. Naturally member will behave the same when they saw mods giving rude and unpresent comments.

If a newbie know everythings what the point of having this forum. I personal felt that , Mods are like role model. If they themselve can't behave in the forum how would he expect other member to behave?

Matrix,
This statement of yours worries me - if there are Moderators stepping out of line, please let us know. As with errant members, we will definitely act upon such information.

If u want to be a mods and willing give good advices ,you have to bear those repeated newbies questions(be it photography or equipment related) else dun be one cos u need to read post every now and which i think is quite suffering. ;p

However, to be fair to the Moderators, they/we are not here to be at the beck and call of every newbie or member who wants/demands information or advise, and Moderators are NOT obliged to post replies just to satisfy a newbies info request - after all, our group of Mods only number in the low teens compared to the other 5,000 members out there who have, collectively, much more experience and knowledge.

While we see our Moderators as "experts" in their particular field, we do not select Moderators solely upon their technical expertise. A Moderators task is exactly that - to MODERATE the posts in the forums, and not necessarily to be the Fount of Knowledge (if they can do both, then great for the members). And as the forum grows, the ability of the Moderators to vigorously monitor each and every post becomes harder - in fact, we do depend on the members themselves monitoring and reporting up to the Moderators for action.

I would say that our current Moderators are doing a great job (bearing in mind that this is a voluntary, unpaid task for which we do sometimes get nasty PMs/emails), and its our passion for photography and the feeling of contributing something back to the photography community that drives us.

And lastly, Moderators are human also - we have day jobs, families, daily issues - and sometimes, somewhere, a little bit of frustration can and may show through in our posts.

 

[Michael Ang]

hi,

thanks for your reply in both my posts.

no.. i am not mad or anything much less sensitive about it...

i am just worried about the emerging trend that i have noticed where the tone and language used in some of the replies have been getting rather harse and sarcastic...

i am for the idea that people should search for answers on their own whereever possible and resort only to asking if necessary...

but what i am against is that instead of directing this people to using the search engine etc.. , replies implied "hey stupid .. why don't u just find out yourselve".. while i do agree that YES, one should do the search... what i don't agree is why bother to answer with such a reply in the first place...

if one does not agree to the question being asked.. maybe one should just ignore rather than post such a harse reply and demoralise the newbie etc...

it's my thots all along that this forum serves as a common ground to share a common passion... and not as a battling ground to exchange strongs words or feelings especailly one pertaining to human's behaviour or nature.. eg if there are strongly worded fights over which pix is nicer or which camera produces the best pix etc.. i can understand...

but not like "why must u go around asking and asking the same old question .... it's here.. go look for it.. and stop wasting my time" kind of post..

my point is why bother to post this kind of reply at all... what does it achieve?

certainly it doesn't promote the basic objective of this forum...


to me, it only serves to say that " well... go away... u aren't welcome here"...

that's just my point of view anyway....

having said this lot, I shall now keep my peace and will NO LONGER reply to this particular post on the attitudes of certain CSers...

and please take note.. No hard feelings...

for u and for me.. thank you... and best regards

 

[e_liau]

I'm not trying to be harsh here but I think what I said will be considered harsh. But if you are not happy about it, so be it. I always believe in "If you laugh, the world laugh with you. If you cry, the world lets you cry alone".

If you need favour from others, be preapred for harsh remarks. Nothing is for free, and there's no free lunch. If you can't take the harsh remarks, then don't ask. Because utimately, nobody owe anybody anything in this world.

Cheers.

 

[lavenderlilz]

I'm not trying to be harsh here but I think what I said will be considered harsh. But if you are not happy about it, so be it. I always believe in "If you laugh, the world laugh with you. If you cry, the world lets you cry alone".

If you need favour from others, be preapred for harsh remarks. Nothing is for free, and there's no free lunch. If you can't take the harsh remarks, then don't ask. Because utimately, nobody owe anybody anything in this world.

Cheers.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Zplus]

"Welcome to the real world pal!"

Anyways, there will always be such people around who think they know it all. Just take heart that you are not one of them and hope one day you will not be one either. But there are a whole lot more helpful and friendly people around. So don't let a few lamers get to you. This ain't a perfect world but we live and try to be anyway.

Meantime, go out and shoot. Hone your skills and make new friends and grow. I do agree that the trend is as you have observed and that is the nature of a BBS and forum where people come and go. Once in a while you get some of these and once in a while you get some of that. Just ignore those lame post and it should be fine. I mean, you have a choice who you bother to listen to. Usually, lamers stop once they know their harsh comments are ignored.

Take it easy man....

 

[sabre]

hi,
i am new to photography so please forgive me if i sound stupid.
i am kinda interested in getting the film as i would like to try out bulk film.
1. what is a roller and where can i get one?
2. how do i load the film into the camera?
please advise.
regards.

No problem. This question have been asked before. So it is easier directing you to the articles & threads rather then typing them. Here goes:

Read the following article:
http://www.clubsnap.org/display.php...ulk_loading.htm

then read the following threads:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=14584

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=33864

I hope this answers all if not most of the questions.

Let me know if it helps. Cheers

Just voicing my humble opinion,

I believe that by directing the question to threads that answers the question should not be considered anyway a "harsh" or "rude" reply. After all, some effort has to be made to dig up the appropriate threads and paste it into the reply. The threads contains a wealth of knowledge which the subject has been well discussed. So why not directing the questioner to the threads? This post itself I believe constitues to a helpful reply.

Perhaps this method of reply is not "personalised" enough, but I believe it is quite a good way since it saves time for the person posting the reply, prevents duplicate long information being posted in the forum thus saving space for the clubsnap form database, hmmm... and perhaps the forum will load faster yah?

 

[ibika]

...some good some bad... but hows this and hows that? If I post a picture, comment on the pic anyways...

..stating how you feel to the pic, I think, is helping out one another rather truthfully... Sometimes it hurts, but it works..

...comments on this but, think it the other way? .. You're wasting time and it doesn't help a single bit at all... :think:

 

[DaoBuLiao]

...some good some bad... but hows this and hows that? If I post a picture, comment on the pic anyways...

..stating how you feel to the pic, I think, is helping out one another rather truthfully... Sometimes it hurts, but it works..

...comments on this but, think it the other way? .. You're wasting time and it doesn't help a single bit at all... :think:

ermmm..don't think it's got anything to do with comments and critiques of the pictures posted? :embrass:

 

[sk_online]

I agree there are some pretty nasty "shooters" in this club, but compared to the helpful masses, they're pretty insignificant..

I've been in this club for a few months now, and i must say CS has helped me learn a lot. Posted many typical (boring) newbie questions, and gotten plenty of helpful replies including PMs even. I sense that CS spirit..

There's no perfect social harmony in life, moreover over the internet.. if anything offends you, i don't think you should take it personally.. just ignore, like irc.. I've seen many many threads in other forum getting out of control (or OT) coz people just cant let go of their pride.

i still think CS is a very friendly forum.. doing my part helping out the n00bs like how the others has aided me.

 

[henavs]

Try not to take it too personally, not everyone is as nice as u expect...

But, u have to do ur part to avoid nasty situation...Before u ask anything, pls do a search in this forum. See if ur topic has already been discussed before. CS search feature has been refined to make it more user friendly, do make use of it.

 

[sk_online]

Try not to take it too personally, not everyone is as nice as u expect...

But, u have to do ur part to avoid nasty situation...Before u ask anything, pls do a search in this forum. See if ur topic has already been discussed before. CS search feature has been refined to make it more user friendly, do make use of it.

maybe mods should put a sticky up advising newbies to do a search before asking questions? i mean, i sure felt like a retard when i first joined.. so just post and post lor, hoping for some replies.. might have been a silly question, but bet many other newbies were wanting to ask the same thing..

 

[espn]

sk_online: I can assure you, no newbies read the stickies. Unless it's super ultra highlighted when you first enter the forum, otherwise people will just skim through the first page for similar threads somehow bypassing the stickies (don't ask me how they just do? :dunno: ), if not found, post.