who are divers on CS?

[frisky]

After reading all your postings on photographers who are divers or divers who are photographers. I have to make a comment.

I know quite a few newly open water certified divers, buy their underwater housing/camera and take it on their next dive. I would highly advice against it. Since diving do carry some serious risk, I think the best is to get your diving skills right First. Even if u do survive, doing it, the corals and underwater life may not. I've seen divers who can't get their buoyancy right and tend to bounce on corals and still wanting to take photos. Worse of all, I've seen these hold on to anything they can, to get that bouyancy without thinking that they are actually killing the coral or slamming into something.

My advice is to get your diving skills, particularly your bouyancy control right, and move about expertly in the water first before even attempting to do underwater photography.

:thumbsup: I strongly agree with you.

But the fact is there is a lot of divers would ignore that advise. I got a bunch of diver friends who will in currents hold onto corals knowingly instead of doing some finning, and there is no convincing them not to.

Between getting developing a decent level of bouyancy control and doing underwater photography I'll certainly suggest the former.

But there is some difference between having a reasonable level of bouyancy control and getting into serious and frequent diving, where a BC & reg becomes a good idea. Which is the point I'm trying to make.

 

[lanxx]

Yeah, I agree with the frisky and scotsman.

but u see, the reason why all of us are in this forum coz we own a camera with underwater housing, so there's no point in telling people to get camera later, diving skills first.

Yes, buoyancy is VERY important. Must be able to hover in mid water without finning, without even thinking about it, so that we are able to concentrate on taking the shot and without killing corals.
You will be surprised how buoyancy can improve a shot, I have seen tons of shots all out of focus, not framed properly or even have silt/sand kicked up in the shots just due to poor buoyancy.

Have you ever seen those divers that dive like seahorse?
Dive like that, how to take photos?
or even worse, spoil someone else's shots because of their poor buoyancy by swimming over your head while you are photographing and kicking your heads with thier fins by accident, or kick up the seabed and TOTALLY RUIN a perfectly nice shot. Happened to me zillion of times, I really feel like strangling them :angry:

If for a normal diver(not from this forum), I would advise the same as scotsman, frisky. Get your own equipment first, reg, bc, fins, dive com..
and log more dives to get your buoyancy right, THEN get a u/w camera system.

Once you dive with your own equipment, you will never want to use rented ones. They really suck big time! Not comfortable to use, poorer quality equipment and not properly maintained.

But as I stress again, most of us here already have a camera to start with even before diving or already owns one now.

 

[scotsman]

They may have a camera but not necessarily a housing to go with it.

As for having ur own equipment, well.... I didn't get my own BCD or reg till much later. I got my U/W camera first, but only after many many dives. Mind you, after getting my own BCD and reg, my breathing and bouyancy was fantastic, because its ur own equipment and u know how to handle it, time after time.

Whatever the case, as long as u are diver, you should be doing the diver's way of things not a photographer's.

 

[beivied]

hm.... lemme digest a bit ...

ok, if you ask me, there is a high tendency for people to feel that their buoyancy is ok, becos of ego, and also not being to see themselves underwater. i have friends who use their hands to struggle underwater, move too fast, and wanna go thailand to dive after six months on dry land. even if i tell them to wait till they have better buoyancy, more comfy so that they can enjoy the better dives, they will answer, i am already very comfy and i think i am good enough.

how is my buoyancy? well, i never say that i am good. i bumped into a coral once, during my checkout dive on my first leisure trip. which was without a uw camera. the next three trips, no bumps, no brush past. ok enough for me to hold a camera? i think it is. and someone (dont remember who) said on this thread or kng's turtles! thread, that it makes the diver wanna polish up his/her bouyancy even more. true? depends on one's own perception.

the most fundamental thing , imho, the diver/photographer must acknowledge his/her strengths and weaknesses, which can be not easy. i will not get strobes now, becos i dont have money, and more importantly, i am not comfy enough to bring strobes down. and i wanna enjoy diving for a much longer time, than to have to worry about so many equipment. out of five/six dives, at the moment, i only bring my camera down for one/two dives. definitely no camera on checkout dive. some diver friends say i am being kia see. yes i am, i "kia" the marine life will "see".

what am i? i am a diver who wanna bring memories home, and come back to the same place years later to see the same corals, intact and better grown. a diver who doesnt see the need to leave the marine site intact and unharmed in whichever sense, should not even be a diver in the first place, let alone take uw photos.

i can be very bad. if i see someone damaging corals, i would tell that person. if it was deliberate, e.g. squeezing sea cucumbers, i would tell that person OFF. no face given. so how should we do our part? self conscious, and reminding fellow divers.

 

[scotsman]

yah man! Agreed ...

Its really ticks me off when I'm ready for a shot and someone comes along and hits the cuttlefish or touches a turtle... and scares them away.

That is the other thing I realised, the underwater life in Peninsular Malaysia tend to be afraid of divers, whereas in Sipadan they actually come close to you out of curiousity. Why this is so? I guess it is quite obvious.

 

[BigBelly]

didn't realised this thread so hot.

anyway my view is that not everyone can afford their personal set of gear so we cannot expect divers to get their personal gear before venturing into uw photography. i think it is a personal preference as to whether you want to get your dive gear first or your camera set first.

regarding bouyancy, it is extremely important for your safety and for an enjoyable dive also. yes, a lot of pple think their bouyancy is very good and they refused to admit it if pple observe otherwise. perhaps if you can maintain bouyancy without or with 1 peice of weight for the entire dive, i think it would be a good judge and you have proven that you can control your bouyancy. the lungs plays the largest factor in bouyancy control. my bouyancy skills suck big time. :embrass:

if photographers do not want novice divers to chap with their shots, perhaps it is better to stay right behind the group or dive seperately. divers dive to see stuff and hence the experience photographer should signal to the rest of the group if there is someone worth seeing. also the photographer should be able to capture shots which can be used to educate the novice divers on land so that i future they know what to look out for.

if photographers really want to have uninterrupted shots, please dive by yourself and another buddy.

that is why lanxx also organisers special photo trips for u/w photographers

for my last trip, there were two photogaphers. i old bird and another new. the old bird and his buddy stayed very far behind so that he could take his time to take shots. this also allowed the group infront to shot macro stuff, look until song, signal to the old bird that something worth taking then move out of his way.

 

[scotsman]

yeah, half the time I'm behind with my buddy taking photos just to avoid the crowd. Problem is that sometimes there is still silt at the bottom that the front divers in the group stir up.

Hey BigBelly any package deal for a EFR+Rescue course? And + DM after that?

 

[beivied]

being new i always follow my dm or instructor quite closely. up till now,i have always been the only one with camera underwater, so he will signal to me first, so that i can take photos before the rest come and kick up the silt. my buddies usually not interested in critters and only look for big fish, while with or without camera, i enjoy going close (without bumping into anything that is) and look for small things, like crabs hiding in soft corals etc. buddy always complain i am slow

 

[frisky]

being new i always follow my dm or instructor quite closely. up till now,i have always been the only one with camera underwater, so he will signal to me first, so that i can take photos before the rest come and kick up the silt. my buddies usually not interested in critters and only look for big fish, while with or without camera, i enjoy going close (without bumping into anything that is) and look for small things, like crabs hiding in soft corals etc. buddy always complain i am slow

Solution: introduce uw photography to your buddy, or go diving with someone that takes photo. :bsmilie:

I also believe that when taking photos, any weakness in bouyancy becomes more obvious, and hence making one more consious about it (and hopefully try to improve as a result)

I would also like to add that buying your own reg/bc is not enough, you'll need to know your bc and reg and be able to take good care of it and ensure that it is in good condition.

It would not be wise to simply encourge someone to buy the reg/bc and the fellow only dive once or twice a year and didn't take good care of it. In that case it will probably be doing more disservice than anything.

My last point will be probably cause another uproar :

You'll probably be able to dive better with your own equipment,
but using rental equipment might force you to be a better diver.

 

[lanxx]

that is why lanxx also organisers special photo trips for u/w photographers

.

erhh? I did not pay you any advertising fee leh!
:think:

Finally, you come to the thread liao.! :bsmilie:
anyway, no more such trips this year. next will be manado, hopefully!

 

[lanxx]

yeah, half the time I'm behind with my buddy taking photos just to avoid the crowd. Problem is that sometimes there is still silt at the bottom that the front divers in the group stir up.

photographers sure slow one, so usually when I am not diving with my GF, I will end up solo diving. Better this way. no interruptions, can navigate and go anywhere I like...

If my buddy is my GF, she will be slightly ahead, scouting for me. So when she sees something interesteing, she will signal me or wait for me at the spot till I catch up. Sometimes my she's u/w model or 'equipement rack'. There was once I was tangled in a very small swim through, hose got caught, I passed her my cam, so that I could remove my BC. So sweet of her! :lovegrin:

So bottom line: get a diving life-time partner! :angel: LOL

Also when my buddy(Nighshades) haven't pick up photography yet, he also does the same for me. Nice chap! So sometimes I end up with 2 scouts or more, so damn busy! Could also rely on him to get me out of sticky if not uncomfortable postions, cuz I usually in water, very notti one.(not killing corals and marine life hoh)
:bsmilie:

Now that Nightshades and another friend have picken up the hobby, we usually end up solo diving, only meeting at the surface or the boat.

 

[lanxx]

being new i always follow my dm or instructor quite closely. up till now,i have always been the only one with camera underwater, so he will signal to me first, so that i can take photos before the rest come and kick up the silt. my buddies usually not interested in critters and only look for big fish, while with or without camera, i enjoy going close (without bumping into anything that is) and look for small things, like crabs hiding in soft corals etc. buddy always complain i am slow

no choice, in SG and W.Malaysia, where the vis is erratic and sometimes bad, better to stick to macro till we can expand our pockets and go to better dive sites.

Life of u/w photographer. "Go Slow"

 

[lanxx]

Solution: introduce uw photography to your buddy, or go diving with someone that takes photo. :bsmilie:

I also believe that when taking photos, any weakness in bouyancy becomes more obvious, and hence making one more consious about it (and hopefully try to improve as a result)

I would also like to add that buying your own reg/bc is not enough, you'll need to know your bc and reg and be able to take good care of it and ensure that it is in good condition.

It would not be wise to simply encourge someone to buy the reg/bc and the fellow only dive once or twice a year and didn't take good care of it. In that case it will probably be doing more disservice than anything.

My last point will be probably cause another uproar :

You'll probably be able to dive better with your own equipment,
but using rental equipment might force you to be a better diver.

Frisk, u are rite, dive with someone who takes photos too. that why, no one will complain your are too slow. :bsmilie:

Nothing like having your own equipement.
Once, my reg o-ring seating was not tighten properly after servicing, was leaking tons of air, so no choice, use rented reg. Alamak, horrible!
I had to take 2 full breadths to fill up my lungs where as my reg could do it in one breadth effortlessly. Suck until eyes want to pop out, face turn red, then take photos, buoyancy abit off, no thanks to the reg. In all, very unformtable experience.

When you buy BC and Reg, also dun forget your dive computer. Expensive may be, but tons of certified divers dun even know how to plan and calculate dives anymore, blindly following the DM or Instructor's profile. Very dangerous. Somemore I know alot of people dun have DAN insurance. So, my advice is: get it asap, even before your reg and BC.
You dun want to end up with DCI or DCS. Not a nice exp I tell u....

But if you dive like a few times a year(1-15 logged dives), frisky is right, not feasible. But then again, really depends on your budget and preference.

 

[lanxx]

Anyone here going?

Me and nightshades are going.

 

[frisky]

Nothing like having your own equipement.
Once, my reg o-ring seating was not tighten properly after servicing, was leaking tons of air, so no choice, use rented reg. Alamak, horrible!
I had to take 2 full breadths to fill up my lungs where as my reg could do it in one breadth effortlessly. Suck until eyes want to pop out, face turn red, then take photos, buoyancy abit off, no thanks to the reg. In all, very unformtable experience.

Er, that sounds bad...... So far never kenna such terok one. Either that or I am used to it. :bsmilie: Though I am wondering why are you trying to fill your lungs when you are taking a shot?

When you buy BC and Reg, also dun forget your dive computer. Expensive may be, but tons of certified divers dun even know how to plan and calculate dives anymore, blindly following the DM or Instructor's profile. Very dangerous. Somemore I know alot of people dun have DAN insurance. So, my advice is: get it asap, even before your reg and BC.

Certainly a good idea, esp with some of the DM consistently exceeding the dive tables. Also in some trips, there are options to do your own shore dives, and even when you don't do shore dives, your depth and actually time are likely to be somewhat different from the DM. If can dive within dive tables then not too important lar....... But got to be very discipline to do so. And you are right that many return the dive tables to the dive school right after the test.

 

[beivied]

my point: use dive computer also doesnt mean you know how to use the table. but of course, it is better to use your own judgement and your own dive comp than to rely on someone else. however i see that as a more advance stage of diving. definitely, good uw photography as well.

i have used a regulator with the mouthpiece bitten off, leaving teeth marks and nothing for me to bite on. the bottom line is, for those who needs to use rental gear, go with trustable operators. i have problems with full foot fins, and now have two scars on my heels. friendlywaters was good enough to arrange for open heel fins for me, and he got me a pair of tusa duno what model , which was very very good, better than my x3 which i got later. i really glide through the waters, easy like breeze. but i had problems removing the fins every ascend, macam like it has grown on me :bsmilie: the one whom i went with the badly devoured reg, they also got me a pair of decent open heel fins la, just to mention to be fair.

 

[lanxx]

Er, that sounds bad...... So far never kenna such terok one. Either that or I am used to it. :bsmilie: Though I am wondering why are you trying to fill your lungs when you are taking a shot?

To control my buoyancy loh.
U dun use your BC to control buoyancy unless extremely overweighted or diving deep.

 

[waisj]

yah man! Agreed ...

Its really ticks me off when I'm ready for a shot and someone comes along and hits the cuttlefish or touches a turtle... and scares them away.

That is the other thing I realised, the underwater life in Peninsular Malaysia tend to be afraid of divers, whereas in Sipadan they actually come close to you out of curiousity. Why this is so? I guess it is quite obvious.

yaya yaya YES YES YES.. that ticks me off too. especially when you have spent 5 minutes inching your way to the cuttle fish....

 

[sehsuan]

Have you ever seen those divers that dive like seahorse?
Dive like that, how to take photos?

:bsmilie:

oh yeah, that's the term!

i myself, am in need of improving buoyancy, but i take priority as a u/w world lover and make sure i don't touch anything on the seabed, and make sure nothing (read: triggerfish) touches me! :bsmilie:

 

[sehsuan]

i can be very bad. if i see someone damaging corals, i would tell that person. if it was deliberate, e.g. squeezing sea cucumbers, i would tell that person OFF. no face given. so how should we do our part? self conscious, and reminding fellow divers.

beivied, how do you tell a person off underwater? for those squeezing sea cucumbers, why not you squeeze them?....