Which external Flash for 717?

[finkster]

Please correct me if I'm wrong... but this is my understanding of TTL & flash TTL.

TTL stands for 'Through The Lens'. It means in order for the camera to have an accurate reading of the amount of light available to capture a picture at a particular setting, this is the best way to get such a reading, since this is also the same path that light will have to take to travel to reach the CCD in order to produce a picture.

Compared to readings taken from outside the camera, using remote sensors, which may be affected by other factors like different light angles, sensor sensitivity, stray shadows...., the TTL way is more accurate.

In this case, the flash unit gets info from the camera about the amount of light that is actually travelling through the lens barrel. This info is then used by the flash unit to calculate how strong the flash output should be. Less light in the lens=stronger flash output.

Rite?

 

[mpenza]

TTL is supposed to give accurate exposure with the least hassle. However, you still need to adjust the flash exposure at times and usually you're paying a significantly higher price for it. Performance and results might also not be as good as a good auto flash.

 

[newuser]

Went down to CP today. And browsed around in the shop.

Finally decided to ask a salesman behind the counter for what external flash to use for my DSC-F717 other than the SONY's one.

He replied the DSC-F717 can only use SONY's flash cause the shoe is special. He also said "Sony's flash ok what, quite good, if you need to bounce the flash, just remove the flash and turn it upwards"

(Frankly I cannot picture myself holding the flash with my left hand pointing upwards and shooting the 717 with only my right???)


When I quizzed him about 3rd party flashes support for the camera and if there are Adaptors which you can fit on in order to use 3rd party flashes with the 717.
He replied "No, Don't have"

Puzzled, I went and approached another CP staff.

This time I managed to peek at his name tag, His name is Michael Tan.

I repeated my questions about flashes for 717, he too replied that the 717 can only use SONY's flash.
I asked him if can support 3rd party flashes like "Metz" (hinting to him) His reply was "No, Cannot"

I asked him if the SONY's F1000 flash can be titled upwards, his reply was the opposite of the 1st guy.

He said "Yes can, I show you" and proceed to look for the Sony flash at the rack. After searching for a while, he replied "Sorry no stock cannot show you, but I remember it can"

I understand the Metz SCA 3602 adaptor can enable metz flash to be used with the Sony 707/717 so I was puzzled why I told 717 can only use SONY's flash from 2 CP staff.

Further more, both staff gave different answers when asked if the SONY's F1000 flash can be tilted upwards to "bounce" (I would have thought since they sold it before they would have seen the product and knew the answer)

I have never purchase any products or accessories at CP, after this incident I am not so sure if this is the right place to be asking for the right accessories to go with 717, since the staff are so "blur" and not sure.

 

[mpenza]

Metz SCA 3602 is very new to the market and they may not be aware of it yet....

 

[newuser]

Well according to melly ...

the sca adapter for the 32 Metz MZ-3 is out....for the F717. Selling price is $120 at Cathay Photo... not to sure whether to buy it.. cos the ttl options are pretty limited too

Thats the reason why I went down to CP to check it out.

AP gave a different account of the same question.

The salesman (Anthony) replied that the SCA 3602 can be used on the Sony 717 however the SCA 3602 will only take in the Metz 54 MZ-3 flash, which costs like $500+!

When I pointed to a 32 Mz-3 flash on the shelf and asked "how about that one?", he said it cannot take a 32 Mz-3 flash as the "shoe" was different and the SCA 3602's connector will only fit the 54 MZ-3.

However Metz website, indicated the SCA 3602 adaptor goes with several Metz flashes from 32 Mz....to 70 Mz.....

I am just so puzzled by the different accounts and views from various sources that I do not know which one is correct.

Can any 717 users help out here????

I also want to clarify if the HVL-F1000 can indeed tilt the "head" upwards to "bounce" the flash or is it fixed?
Is there any flash accessories like diffuser or bounce cards....etc for it??

Thanks. (puzzled and confused 717 user)

 

[finkster]

Hmmm... strange...didn't Melly mention in an earlier post that CP was selling it?:dunno:

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

i think i got most stupid question to ask now...
as i dun normally use flash on my pictures so i din really play around with it.

so wats bounce the flash means? isn't the flash on the F717 good enough? so why we need to add another flash in?

 

[newuser]

Originally posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
i think i got most stupid question to ask now...
as i dun normally use flash on my pictures so i din really play around with it.

so wats bounce the flash means? isn't the flash on the F717 good enough? so why we need to add another flash in?

I was reading some old posts in the Equipment Envy forum under Fujifilm and I came across mpenza's post which might answer your query.

Hope, mpenza didn't mind.

Originally posted by mpenza
External flash comes in useful for the following situations:
1. when the subject is far away. Built-in flash is not powerful enough.
2. you need fast recycling time. External flash with it's own batteries recharge faster
3. conserve battery power on the camera
4. when you want to bounce the flash for a softer effect and use light more creatively (e.g. just highlight one part of the frame, etc)
5. illuminate closeby subjects, e.g. insects. buil-in flash will be blocked by the protruding lens.

Just something I think of at the spur of the moment.....

I think to bounce the flash refer to tilting the flash upwards at an angled postion, say 45 degrees or 60 degrees so that the light from the flash is "bounced" off a white ceiling to achieve the softer effect mpenza mentioned in point 4.

 

[melly]

The SCA Adapter does work on the 32 MZ-3.. in fact it will work with the 32 Mz2 , as long as the bottom portion can be taken out.


yes I must admit the CP salesmen does seem a bit.. err blur sometimes.. but you must remember they don't go online as much as us, so they might not be aware of things which we heard of online..

another thing.. even though they said they're selling it, but stocks not arrived yet... so not too sure whether they're even taking any effort to expedite the process or not..

anyway going to Japan in one weeks time..

will check out the "famed" promaster 5550dx with the Sony module...

 

[newuser]

Originally posted by melly
The SCA Adapter does work on the 32 MZ-3.. in fact it will work with the 32 Mz2 , as long as the bottom portion can be taken out.


yes I must admit the CP salesmen does seem a bit.. err blur sometimes.. but you must remember they don't go online as much as us, so they might not be aware of things which we heard of online..

another thing.. even though they said they're selling it, but stocks not arrived yet... so not too sure whether they're even taking any effort to expedite the process or not..

anyway going to Japan in one weeks time..

will check out the "famed" promaster 5550dx with the Sony module...

Thanks for the confirmation. Just felt since they are in this trade they have a duty to be more informed about the 'woo's and 'whoa's happening like, especially for the brands they are carrying.

Any way, just verified the Sony flash is indeed capable of tilting the "head" though it cannot swviel side-ways.

The Guide Number though is only 26, lower than the 32 MZ-3 at 37.

Since I am not getting the flash for the next few months due to tight budget, might as well wait for the SCA 3602M adaptor for SONY, due to arrive in June (according to Metz website)

Meanwhile, keep the fellow SONY users updated with the news of the promaster 5550dx for SONY.

 

[f55user]

OK, here're a reply from Metz about the Sony adaptor..

When asked about the SCA3602:

"currently the adapter SCA3602 version M doesn't fit completely to a F717 so that they not can be used in program mode. But, an up-grade to version M2 (M1 doesn't exist) is in preparation and will be launched at the end of march approximately"

When asked about SCA3602 compatibility with 717:

"of course, all the flash features the cameras F707 & 717 provide are possible with the new upcoming adapter SCA3602 version M2."

When asked about "GN Auto Flash Mode"..

"digital Sony cameras are equiped with a very special flash control
called GN auto flash mode. The original Sony flash unit is working with aperture F5.6 but additionally the light output is controlled via partial light output levels. Inside our adapter SCA3602 this system is turned to a similar TTL flash control"


Hope all this helps....thanks to Messers Lutz from Metz who graciously answered all the questions....

BTW, the SCA-adaptors can be used on any of the flashes 54MZ-3, 44MZ-2, 32MZ-3, 32Z-2 and some others... as long as the flash is printed with "SCA 3000 system" or "SCA 3002 system".

 

[mpenza]

hmm... any of these combinations (SCA adaptor + Metz flash) will cost more than $250 (finkster's budget) though....

 

[finkster]

Actually not me buying, it's newuser...

Anyway, would a simple auto flash unit be sufficient? Example would be the Vivitar 285HV. The thing is, we don't really know how good the flash TTL performance will be like with the metz adaptors & flash guns. If it's so costly, troublesome & still must wait for the adaptor to be available, might as well go for the budget version mentioned above for med-long distance shooting, & rely on the onboard flash for close distance work to prevent over-exposures.

 

[JaGr]

had some very good feedback from people who used the metz flash with adapters for 707. even heard of some who used the old 3602 adapter and it works well with 717.

anyway i am wondering what difference will the 32mz-3 and 32z-2 flash make. since the motor zoom function on mz-3 will not work with 717 and is so much heavier might and bigger as well just buy the z-2. but most people recommend the 32mz-3.

 

[mpenza]

The autofocus assist lamp doesn't work as well. from the Metz website, the combination of camera, adaptor and flash supports 4 out of the 15 functionality offered by the 32MZ3 flash (some are mote important than others and a few are meant specifically for other camera makes).

You don't get any more functionality with the 32MZ3 compared to the 32Z2 according to the charts at Metz.de.

 

[taker]

Originally posted by nathan
cam Nikon SB80DX flash use on Sony camera?

Yes it does work on Sony's F717. Canon's flash cannot.

 

[f55user]

Anyone considered the 44MZ-2? $275 at Foto Guide.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

was thinking... if the background is illuminated with bright white florescene lights & the person was standing in front & i thought if i were to on the flash i can still picture the person. but turn out the person's face was darken & couldn't see much details.

so in such case, should i use a stronger flash than the sony f717 built in camera or should i do other settings?

 

[mpenza]

it's not about a stronger flash or not. the built-in flash has throttled down so much that it's too weak to illuminate the shadows. just compensate the built-in flash exposure to increase the power.

 

[Zerstorer]

Originally posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
was thinking... if the background is illuminated with bright white florescene lights & the person was standing in front & i thought if i were to on the flash i can still picture the person. but turn out the person's face was darken & couldn't see much details.

so in such case, should i use a stronger flash than the sony f717 built in camera or should i do other settings?

Probably a problem with metering rather than flash. If you were within the flash's range when this occurred, its merely a case of the camera metering the background instead of the person's face.