WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[Pitachu]

Yes, the managers at JIP and OMDS can probably sense that Pen Fii is likely to be profitable BUT the big boss at JIP still need to nod his head for the rest to proceed as it probably involves millions for R&D and tooling.

The PenF is actually introduced 8 years ago in 2016 and at that time it was a very capable compact camera.
BUT OMDS cannot it to succeed by just rebranding the PenF and add some minor features like what it did to the OM-5 from the EM5 for the Pen-F ii.

The Pen Fii need not be as capable as the OM-1 given its small size but I felt that it still needs to have some computational features like ND & GND, and enough video features for blogging and maybe user loadable LUT like the Panasonic S9 for uses to upload film profiles etc.

The Pen Fii will actually be a very attractive compact camera that can interchange lenses. And Olympus and Panasonic actually has a huge a collection of fast and compact primes, which even Sony is pale in comparison as most of its prime is still much larger than m43 primes.

 

[Pitachu]

Yep, Panasonic is slowly losing the attraction of its GH series as a video mirrorless camera, with Filmfilm coming out with the XM5 and Sony with the tiny ZV-E1 & FX3. urrently the GH7 are mainly use by pros. And though I have tried the Sony ZV-E1, most of the lenses are still too large for my liking. My son is using the smaller Sony APSC 11mm lenses most of the time although the ZV-E1 is a FF video cam. Panasonic still has a slight advantage with the smaller M43 lenses, and it should produce a smaller form factor video camera like the XM5 for non-professional users.

For OMDS, there will be more catching up to do as I personally felt it is at least 1 generation behind (in terms of video capabilities) but as more and more photographers include videos in their wildlife shots, OMDS need to do something as well. Also for small form factor, it will be great with OMDS can offer open gate feature on the Pen-F ii.

 

[Pitachu]

While on the topic of Panasonic offerings to provide an alternative to Fujifilm XM5, Panasonic did update some of its previous model.
Not sure if they are enough to be a good alternative choice, but at least they have done something.

Panasonic brings refreshed DC-G97 and ZS99 / TZ99 models with subtle updates

Panasonic has announced the Lumix DC-G97, a lightly updated Micro Four Thirds mirrorless camera and the DC-ZS99 / TZ99, a refreshed 30x zoom compact.

www.dpreview.com

 

[one eye jack]

At least Panasonic fanboys can expect 2 new cameras from February 2025. What of OMDS? Unless it wants Sony to eat it's lunch, I think OMDS better think out of the box as like Robin Wong and others who keep asking for a higher resolution sensor when in reality there is nothing on offer from Sony. As can be seen in Sony's consumer camera image sensor product lineup at least for m43 there are only 3 sensors 2 @ 20mp of which the 120fps stacked bsi IMX472 is used in OM 1 series and the slower read out one IMX272 which can be used in a lower cost compact camera or the 11mp IMX299 with it's 4.63 micron density sensor which may do well in low light setting perhaps in a video or action camera when the 20mp sensors have the smallest 3.3 micron sensor density of m43 format.

Unless OMDS can be more innovative in this case in the hardware implementation of the camera as no new m43 sensor is on the horizon since it's the chicken and egg story...no new camera sales no new sensor development unlike Fujifilm who develop its current XTRANS sensor by themselves just like Nikon but ask Sony to be their silicon foundry.As it is Sony maximum resolution for apsc is only at 26mp while Fujifilm XTRANS is 40mp.

Image Sensor for Consumer Cameras | Products & Solutions | Sony Semiconductor Solutions Group

Sony Semiconductor Solutions Group develops device business which includes Micro display, LSIs, and Semiconductor Laser, in focusing on Image Sensor.

www.sony-semicon.com

 

[one eye jack]

Once again what is open gate and should you care?

Let's separate truth from fact. All sensor formats have their pros and cons.

 

[one eye jack]

Lumix "new" TZ/TS99 point and shoot camera with 1/2.5 inch sensor. Zoom lens has a 30X optical zoom and if shooting in 4K the additional crop factor gives slightly over 1000mm at the long end. Lens has optical stabilizer although it benefits from a tripod or gimbal. Although given the small sensor it can still perform reasonably well in low light. Reviewer believes camera will sell very well given it's USD$499 price. If TZ99 does sell well then it paves the way for camera companies to spend more on R&D for point and shoot cameras overall. It can also do vertical video ala tik tok, does it mean it has open gate video? Which make me wonder where is OMDS point and shoot hah?

 

[one eye jack]

Canon outsell Sony by half a percent according to latest figures.30.5% Vs 30%.

The figures measure manufacturers' sales volume share during October 2024, and is based on point-of-sales data from electronics retailers and online stores throughout the land of the rising sun. It is the first time that Canon has topped the list since May 2024. As it's based on sales volume rather than sales value, it favors lower-end, high-volume products, typically with smaller APS-C sensors, rather than full-frame models.

At least OMDS is still in the game at 9th.place.

1. Canon EOS R50 (1st place)
2. Sony ZV-E10II (2nd place)
3. Canon EOS R10 (5th place)
4. Sony ZV-E10 (3rd place)
5. Sony A6400 (4th place)
6. Nikon Z fc (7th place)
7. Panasonic Lumix G100D (6th place)
8. Nikon Z30 (16th place)
9. Olympus Pen E-P7 (8th place)
10. Sony A7 C II (9th place)

Canon overtakes Sony to become top-selling camera brand in Japan

Canon edges ahead of rival Sony in tight race, according to latest figures from Japanese trade body BCN Retail, Nikon trails a distant third…

www.digitalcameraworld.com

 

[Pitachu]

Except for the ZV-E10ii, the last 2 cameras introduced by Sony, the A1ii and A9iii are high end models costing about $8K, meant for professionals.
Just before that is the 7Cii and 7CR which is the higher mid range cameras meant for users who prefer smaller camera bodies.
Even the Sony A7V rumored to be released in January is a higher mid range camera meant for hybrid users.
Like Olympus, Sony has been slow to cater for the low end market which seems to be growing again.

 

[one eye jack]

This may be old news since it's coming to end 2024 and everybody is keeping their secrets. The next WOW event may actually come from smartphone manufacturers that introduce it's first m43 sensor smartphone which represent a 93% size increase from a 1 inch sensor which we know from the failure of Nikon and Canon is history.

Who knows these manufacturers of m43 sensors may sell them to Panasonic and OMDS. So there will be 4 new sensors, 2 from Sony and 1 each from a Chinese company and Samsung.

From Sony there is a 44mp. 2.25 micron pixel size. This would effectively double from the current 20mp and indeed bring smiles from m43 fans as it can do 8K video. Hardware wise I think is feasible with current technology. Bear in mind the current 20mp m43 sensor is 3.3 micron and Sony full frame 61 MP. which is effectively 60.2 MP which works out to be only 1 micron in pixel size.

The next Sony m43 sensor is 80mp. 1.65 micron but from it's description and technology will be a slower readout so there will be technical issues.

Next will be a 50mp 2.1 micron from a relatively unknown Chinese manufacturer and lastly a 108mp from Samsung itself. So far not even full frame cameras have broken the 100mp. barrier on readout speed.

Do note that there are a few Chinese lens manufacturers that have joined the m43 consortium like 7artisan, TTartisan , Yongno and others which I think hope to gain manufacturing experience in making m43 lenses perhaps making lens accessories for smartphones that use m43 sensors.

Thread views have crossed 119K.

 

[Pitachu]

M43 camera manufacturers have been facing the challenge of slow sensor development from sensor manufacturers, as they feel that the volume is relatively low and they tend to focus on larger markets. However, when phone manufacturers start to use M43 sensors, the volume will be huge and M43 camera manufacturers will have more choice and improvements on the sensors that they can put into cameras.

I do not think that phones with M43 sensors will cannabalize M43 camera market as M43 camera users usually select to use a camera instead of only a phone probably wnats the camera features and ability to change lens.

 

[one eye jack]

Blackmagic started out with m43 sensor camera called pocket cinema camera. Now it's trying to eat Arriflex 65 for lunch, a sort of poor man's arri65 which you can only rent. Now what has this video got to do with m43, well much of it has nothing to do with science but hype as you watch the complete video. It is entertaining to know the hype about 35mm full frame when conventionally movies or cinema is shot with super35 sensor which is about the size of apsc sensor. The marketing bias against m43 begins to be apparent. Let science reveal the truth. Resolution, depth of field, the look etc.

 

[one eye jack]

Follow up on previous post above about sensor sizes but now the lenses of arri. How does one create a look on videos or film. Is it the gear or someone's creativity. I think a combination of both as we will see.

Arri "tune" the lens to give or impart a look by old school techniques like adding filters back in the day of film. From vintage lens look to modern lens super sharp and crisp. It depends on the director of photography ( dp )..

Can you do it DIY on the cheap? I'll leave it to your imagination. Can be scaled down for m43?

 

[ricohflex]

They say.

Make or Break

I think the writer misunderstood OM Systems.
OM Systems was created to side step strict Japan Labour Laws.
Or else it would be too costly for Olympus to wipe out its own Camera Division.
The payout compensation would be too high.
The deciding factor of whether OM Systems can announce winding up, is when Japan Labour Laws allow.
Certain number of years must pass.
Or certain conditions must be met.
When ready, they will execute the task.
OM Systems reason for existence is to keep former Olympus Camera Division employees employed.
As to the low number of "new" cameras coming out of OM Systems.
Well, that is NOT their mission.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex, your facts are not correct too. There is no labour law that says a company cannot retrench workers in Japan.
Olympus have done it before (see article below) by retrenching 2700 employees.
After the imaging division has been transferred to OMDS, JIP outsource the manufacturing on a JIT basis to Vietnam.
It was not stated how many factory workers are affected but definitely they are redundant with the exception of those Japanese being sent to Vietnam to oversee the quality control.

Olympus Fires 2,700 Employees

Olympus has discussed, analyzed and concluded, as expected, in a press statement. In principle, it is about confirmations of the statements in April. The

socialbarrel.com

Moreover, it is also not true that the payout compensation would be too high. It is only 30 days worth of wages. (see article below)

A Guide to Dismissal, Layoff & Termination in Japan

Master terminations in Japan: Learn about notice periods, employee protections, and more for your first hire.

www.rippling.com

They say.

Make or Break

I think the writer misunderstood OM Systems.
OM Systems was created to side step strict Japan Labour Laws.
Or else it would be too costly for Olympus to wipe out its own Camera Division.
The payout compensation would be too high.
The deciding factor of whether OM Systems can announce winding up, is when Japan Labour Laws allow.
Certain number of years must pass.
Or certain conditions must be met.
When ready, they will execute the task.
OM Systems reason for existence is to keep former Olympus Camera Division employees employed.
As to the low number of "new" cameras coming out of OM Systems.
Well, that is NOT their mission.

 

[Blu-By-U]

Oh dear, @ricohflex , your prediction is coming true..

The best-selling cameras and lenses of 2024 (at Map Camera in Japan)

Discover the best-selling cameras and lenses of 2024 at Japan's Map Camera, featuring top models from Fujifilm, Sony, Nikon, and Canon.

www.redsharknews.com

 

[Pitachu]

Unfortunately, OMDS do not have the resources like Sony to release model after model throughout the year after a fanfare on a product.
The OM1-ii and the GH7 are all very well received and I keep seeing it being talked about on youtube for quite a while. For the OM-1, the 120fps, procapture GND etc are quite interesting features to the right target audience. Unfortunately, OMDS do not have any more products after that to carry on the brand being put forward to the general public.

Photographers who love Olympus / OM Systems are already buying it and do not need to be reminded on social media as they are always aware of what is being released. It is the non=users that OMDS need to reach out to and compete with, and with the trend towards smaller sensors, M43 actually have a chance to be popular again.

Someone who is about to get the Sony A9iii asked me is there any 70-300 or 100-300 zoom lens that have a fast aperture f2.8 for evening drives in africa safari.
And surprisingly after searching, only Olympus has a 80-300mm F2.8 (40-150 F2.8). Since he only need about 20mp, the OM-1ii with the 40-150 F2.8 is actually a good alternative for him to consider. Otherwise, he would need to be contented with either a slower aperture or resort to using primes.

The best-selling cameras and lenses of 2024 (at Map Camera in Japan)

Discover the best-selling cameras and lenses of 2024 at Japan's Map Camera, featuring top models from Fujifilm, Sony, Nikon, and Canon.

www.redsharknews.com

 

[Pitachu]

Finally, some hints on what OMDS may release in 2025.

The 40-200 will be great if it is a F2.8.
Currently with the 40-150 F2.8, it is equal to 80-300mm F2.8 or with a TC1.4 it is 112 to 420 F4.
With a 40-200 F2.8, it is equal to 80-400 F2.8 or with a TC1.4, it is 112 to 560 F4

OM Digital in 2025: New vintage model and one telephoto zoom coming? – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[Blu-By-U]

Actually OM-System should update that aged 40-150 with IS if that 50-200/2.8 is not easy to release. There is that long awaited Pen-F. A low cost OM-10.

 

[Pitachu]

This is something I could not understand. Olympus has put IS on their 12-100 lenses and it is a popular feature.
But when I ask them why the 70-300 and 40-150 lenses without IS, they told me it is not necessary (at the ex Olympus showrm in Singapore).
In a way that is true given the high IBIS of OM camera bodies but it is always nice to have to have a higher hit rate when we do not have time to brace and stabilize ourselves properly. Maybe OM is not expecting many users to upgrade to a 40-150 F2.8 mk2 with IS?

Olympus / OM has always created a lot of buzz when they come out with a lenses which Full Frame cameras are not able to release (physics constraint).
For example the 90mm 2x Macro (180mm equivalent) and the 150-400 F4.5 (800mm F4.5 for 35mm equivalent).

I still believe if OM can increase the focal range of the 40-150 F2.8 to about 50-200 F2.8 (100-400 F2.8 equivalent), it will be able to create another unique lenses for photographers as currently there is no 100-400 F2.8 lenses in the market. Photographers currently have to make do with a 200mm or 300mm F2.8 when they need a faster lenses for sports photography BUT also need a second camera with a wider angle lenses when the action starts to move towards them.

And imagine if they add IS to this 50-200 F2.8 lenses.

Just my new year wish........I know it could be wishful thinking

Actually OM-System should update that aged 40-150 with IS if that 50-200/2.8 is not easy to release. There is that long awaited Pen-F. A low cost OM-10.

 

[Blu-By-U]

unfortunately the 300 is f4