WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[Pitachu]

The Olympus 300mm F4 is actually equal to a FF 600mm F4 costing about S$18K from Nikon, Canon and Sony.
The Olympus 300mm F4 is about S$3800. That is the reason a log of wildlife photographer start off with this lenses. It is good value for money.

unfortunately the 300 is f4

 

[Pitachu]

News from OMDS..... finally:

Surprise: The CEO of OM Digital announces the launch of a new OM camera and a new weatherproof bright lenses! – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[ricohflex]

Set aside brand loyalties.
Just let the camera situation evolve naturally.
Camera brands will come and go. It is part & parcel of progress.

Old brands die and new brands emerge.
The changeover from film to digital was cataclysmic for some manufacturers.

Overall, I have to say digital is a good thing.
Just think of the $$$ we saved.
Previously we had to buy film, take the photos, send them for processing, and printing.
Then choose enlargements of some prints.
It cost us a mountain of money.
Now we can just shoot away and we have many extra memory cards to stanndby.

Whether MFT dies will depend on the overall global market of consumers.
There will always be die hard fans of any brand/format/genre.
Die hard fans do not feature/matter in the overall scheme of things.

A few die hard fans cannot prop up a losing battle with a brand/format that CANNOT sell.

This is not to denigrate MFT.
MFT had its glory days.
It was wonderful in 2008.
Just like the Seagate ST225 20 Megabyte hard disk was great in its time in 1984.

Can OM Systems and Panasonic continue to lose a lot of money and make MFT cameras and lenses?
Yes.
They have the financial backing to continue losing money. If that is what they like to do, then please carry on.

 

[Pitachu]

Ha Ha Ricohflex, you have have lost touch with the market if you are comparing M43 cameras with film and 20Mb HDD.
It is only last year Sony is able to come up with a 120FPS camera with ProCapture after Olympus have it a few years back even before the OM-1.
I am not a Panasonic user or videographer but you can also go and read up on the Panasonic G9ii and GH7.
All these are definitely not obsolete technology!

OMDS is now on contract manufacturing without a factory and with a very lean marketing team.
Not sure about Panasonic but since Panasonic is keeping its imaging division compared to other divisions it has cut, I believe it is still profitable.
Having a small market share does not mean that it is losing money and burning cash.
Leica and Pentax have even smaller market share and is still surviving.

Set aside brand loyalties.
Just let the camera situation evolve naturally.
Camera brands will come and go. It is part & parcel of progress.

Old brands die and new brands emerge.
The changeover from film to digital was cataclysmic for some manufacturers.

Overall, I have to say digital is a good thing.
Just think of the $$$ we saved.
Previously we had to buy film, take the photos, send them for processing, and printing.
Then choose enlargements of some prints.
It cost us a mountain of money.
Now we can just shoot away and we have many extra memory cards to stanndby.

Whether MFT dies will depend on the overall global market of consumers.
There will always be die hard fans of any brand/format/genre.
Die hard fans do not feature/matter in the overall scheme of things.

A few die hard fans cannot prop up a losing battle with a brand/format that CANNOT sell.

This is not to denigrate MFT.
MFT had its glory days.
It was wonderful in 2008.
Just like the Seagate ST225 20 Megabyte hard disk was great in its time in 1984.

Can OM Systems and Panasonic continue to lose a lot of money and make MFT cameras and lenses?
Yes.
They have the financial backing to continue losing money. If that is what they like to do, then please carry on.

 

[ricohflex]

Actually that was Olympus the parent company.
Olympus has 40,000 employees world wide.
Those people they fired in past may come from a combination of foreign and Japan-local subdivisions.

But good news as Olympus Malaysia has hinted on a new model.
Let us see if MFT can make it through next few years.
World economy is down, so if they are smart they should aim for Small, Light, Cheap to sell cameras.

 

[one eye jack]

@ricohflex, in my opinion the images of retro omds camera are photoshopped of Olympus om1 film camera. He is a YouTuber so he has to keep people clicking on his channel. Camera supposed to be announced during lunar New year. Let's see if it becomes reality.

 

[ricohflex]

I really like the film Olympus OM-1 designed by Maitani.
I have a few film Olympus OM-1 camera bodies.
Which I keep out of respect for the designer.

I do not like the current crop of digital OM Systems mirrorless ILC.

In 1973 when Maitani designed OM-1, he was not small minded about the format.
Actually by that time Olympus had already made its name making half frame cameras.
Maitani designed OM-1 to be Full Frame 35mm. i.e. 24 x 36.

Maintani knew that if Olympus wanted to compete with the big names Canon/Nikon.
He knew that he cannot be small-minded about the format.
Unfortunately his successors in Olympus were far below his quality as a designer.

Thus in 2008 they chose the MFT format.
Which in 2008 seemed great.
In reality this was just like the proverbial dwarf DNA cast in stone in the MFT design.

It can grow for a while in popularity and world wide sales initially after 2008.
But thereafter like a dwarf, it stops growing.
Other brands with Full Frame surpassed it and left Olympus in the dust and to die in the rubbish heap.

 

[Pitachu]

Pentax and Leica went into Full Frame Digital Cameras.
Their market share is much smaller than OM and Panasonic.
Fujifilm etc went into Medium Format
Again their market share is much smaller than OM & Panasonic.

Points to note:
1) Larger sensor size does not mean higher market share
2) Going into Full Frame does not guarantee any manufacturer market size or success
3) Having smaller market share than Full Frame does not mean they will die off.

Pentax, Leica, Fujifilm Medium Format are still surviving even though they have a smaller market share than Olympus.
You don't need a huge market share to survive, it is all about management, marketing and planning.
Small market have their niches too.
Don't buy a camera based on its popularity.
Buy one that meet your needs.

For example, a group of us was at the Rugged Coast on St John's Island to shoot Corals.
The Corals are less than knee deep, so we do not need to go underwater and you can bring along a
popular brand mirrorless if you choose popularity over practicality.

Almost all of us have a mirrorless slr, but none of us brought. 4 out of 8 of us
brought our Insta360 cameras instead. Insta360 actually have a 50% market share
yesterday evening! Simply because it meet our needs better.

p.s. The Insta360 sensor is less than M43 and 1 in.

I really like the film Olympus OM-1 designed by Maitani.
I have a few film Olympus OM-1 camera bodies.
Which I keep out of respect for the designer.

I do not like the current crop of digital OM Systems mirrorless ILC.

In 1973 when Maitani designed OM-1, he was not small minded about the format.
Actually by that time Olympus had already made its name making half frame cameras.
Maitani designed OM-1 to be Full Frame 35mm. i.e. 24 x 36.

Maintani knew that if Olympus wanted to compete with the big names Canon/Nikon.
He knew that he cannot be small-minded about the format.
Unfortunately his successors in Olympus were far below his quality as a designer.

Thus in 2008 they chose the MFT format.
Which in 2008 seemed great.
But in reality this was just like the proverbial dwarf DNA cast in stone in the MFT design.

It can grow for a while in popularity and world wide sales initially after 2008.
Bu thereafter like a dwarf, it stops growing.
Other brands with Full Frame surpassed it and left Olympus in the dust and to die in the rubbish heap.

 

[one eye jack]

@ricohflex you have got your m43 timeline wrong. Before m43 there was 4/3rd. sensor which is same size as m43 and was Olympus E1 DSLR in 2003, with mirror. 4/3rd. was in collaboration with KODAK and announced at Photokina. Meaning 4/3 existed for 5 years before m43 mirrorless cameras.

Four Thirds system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ricohflex]

Aiyah you never read my comment at 11.18am.
I said MFT.
Not FT. Who in this thread does not know about FT and MFT?

 

[one eye jack]

Aiyah you never read my comment at 11.18am.
I said MFT.
Not FT. Who in this thread does not know about FT and MFT?

What I mean is the sensor format already started in 2003 with Olympus dSLR and then to m43. The sensor size remains the same.

 

[one eye jack]

Technology improves and changes. It's a great time for cameras irrespective of sensor formats full frame Vs crop sensor. The debate about low light performance and bokeh @ 7:16.
Truth and misinformation from camera manufacturers and YouTube influencers.

Thread views: 121k

 

[Pitachu]

Great video!

Actually this is what I have found and the video crystalize my thoughts.

Whenever I use my 61mp Sony A7CR in crop sensor mode to reach further, eg. 100-400 to becomes 150-600mm without a drop in speed/aperture, the resolution is reduced to 24mp.

Comparing the image with a 20mp image shot on my OM-1ii at 900mm, the image quality is actually very close! The slight difference in noise can be easily removed with post processing.

BUT, of course, if one is to shoot with a 600mm lenses at 61mp on my A7CR without using APS-C mode, the Image quality will be higher and we are no longer comparing apple to apple, as there is a big jump in price and resolution (20mp vs 61mp).

I will each system have its pro and cons, as there is no decent zoom lenses that can reach beyond 600mm at F4.5 or faster on Full cameras, which I can achieve on my M43 system. On the other hand, a FF system like my Sony gives me lots of flexibility for Ultra Wide angle, super shallow depth of field etc.

Technology improves and changes. It's a great time for cameras irrespective of sensor formats full frame Vs crop sensor. The debate about low light performance and bokeh @ 7:16.
Truth and misinformation from camera manufacturers and YouTube influencers.

Thread views: 121k

 

[JW73]

20mp-24mp is enough even if one need to crop. But of course if money no issue, one can get a 40-50mp FF and crop.
Lenses are the most important items in the system.

actually most of us in the end just need 2-8mp to show our final work.

 

[ricohflex]

Today had lunch with friends and one of them said he will be buying Sony A7R VI which has 80MP when it comes out.
He was using the Sony A7R V at the table during lunch.
Consumers always want the higher spec.

Whether they really need it, is not relevant to their buying decision.

Thus all the opinions that you only really need X number of pixels is completely missing the point.
And that is why MFT will fail eventually.

 

[Pitachu]

I disagree. Consumers used to want higher spec when digital camera is new.
But now savvy users buy what they need.

For example, Yobadashi says that the 33mp Sony A7Cii is their best selling camera, not the Sony A1ii or the A9iii (Sony fastest camera).

Yodobashi says the Sony A7cII was their best selling camera of the year! | sonyalpharumors

The very large Japanese camera store Yodobashi has listed the 20 best-selling camera kits for the whole of 2024: Sony α7C II Body Sony α7C II Zoom Lens Kit Canon EOS R50 Double Zoom Kit Canon EOS R6 Mark II Body Nikon Z8 Body Sony A7 IV Canon EOS R10 RF-S18-150 IS STM Lens Kit

www.sonyalpharumors.com

I have earlier mentioned in earlier posts that most of the latest cameras released are 24mp.

There are definitely a lot of people who find the A7Rv 61mp useful, but there are also those who find it to cumbersome to handle 61mp files, especially when their work is only for Social Media.

If you look at the list from Yobadashi, most of the top 20 best selling cameras are low to mid end mirrorless. All the flagship models are not in the list eg. Canon R1, Nikon Z9, Sony A1 etc.

My son now shoot most often with his 12mp Sony Full Frame ZV-E1 when I have the high resolution 61mp A7CR and fast 120fps OM-1ii at his disposal.

Why do you think the pre-order for the Fujifilm X100vi (with mid-range specs) is the most popular instead of the their specs camera?


Consumers DO NOT always want higher spec!!!!!

Today had lunch with friends and one of them said he will be buying Sony A7R VI which has 80MP when it comes out.
He was using the Sony A7R V at the table during lunch.
Consumers always want the higher spec.

Whether they really need it, is not relevant to their buying decision.

Thus all the opinions that you only really need X number of pixels is completely missing the point.
And that is why MFT will fail eventually.

 

[one eye jack]

@ricohflex you have been brainwashed by camera manufacturers. Of course what you believe in is your choice but let's get to the truth. One of the gripes of m43 is the dynamic range because of the smaller pixels but truth is all sensors are generally the same but not all sensors are made equal Sit back and enjoy this video although it is video centric he talks about sensor design and it is techy and nerdy so he warns to put on protection.

For him even Sony Burano, the first cinema camera with IBIS is not useful at all and as you know all influencers and content creators say ibis is a must ,well sure if you just want to crank out video as easily and effortlessly for YouTube but what about image quality.

 

[Pitachu]

Yep! Don't be brainwashed by Manufacturers Ads and Influences like @ricohflex
Take your time to try out and see if the new features on the lenses and cameras meet your needs and useful enough to increase your hit rate.
It is not necessarily that the latest features on the camera or lenses is useful to your kind of shooting.

eg. When I complained to my son that my A7CR can only shoot 8 8FPS and I wished Sony will at least put 20fps on a lower end model besides the A1ii or A9iii (both cost more than S$8K), my son (and probably a lot of other photographers) balked at the idea and say it is not necessary. Simply he does not shoot wildlife in action.

Same for the 2x Focal multiplier on M43. It is probably not useful for most photographers (which explains their small market share) but for people who shoot with long teles, it is absolutely useful. Imaging having a built in 2x teleconverter in your camera body with no drop in speed, aperture and a minimal drop in IQ (as long as 20mp meet your needs ie. you only need to make prints of A3 or A2 size (which 95% of the photographers don't even print as large)

 

[Pitachu]

Just to prove my point, 12 out of 20 (60%) of the 20 top selling cameras in Japan are 26mp and below.
It is NOT true that consumers always go for the best specs like 45mp or 60mp.
OMDS and Panasonic chose to remain at 20mp / 24mp for their latest camera in order to maximize the IQ and other benefits of a smaller sensor since this resolution is acceptable to most users.

 

[Pitachu]

OM-3 is rumored to be released in Feb or Mar 2025.

I suspect that is will have about the same specs as OM-1 (not the mk2) but with a classic vintage body.
Price should be between the price of OM-5 and OM-1ii to appeal to OM-1 and OM-1ii users for a back up camera and a lower price patch for OM-5 users to upgrade to.

There is an OM System Day on Feb 16 in Sydney and Melbourne – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com