WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[one eye jack]

Good or bad news for EP7 and OM4 MK4. Whether both are selling well or because of the EU directive effective after Dec. 2024 requiring standardised USB C power charging. Probably both cameras will evolved into EP8 or OM4 will cease production and morph into a MK2 OM5 ii.

Olympus Japan halts E-P7 and E-M10IV orders because of “high demand” – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

EU common charger directive kills the DSLR?

From 28 December 2024, the EU's directive will come into effect, impacting any phones and cameras that can't be charged via USB-C.

amateurphotographer.com

 

[one eye jack]

M43 owners may have another chance to play with a clone of Olympus Air 01 as it was not successful back then in 2015 but now with improvements of WiFi/bluetooth chipsets at an affordable price, it is possible if this Chinese startup manage to make this gadget. It is simply a smartphone attachment but this time with an interchangeable m43 lens mount and m43 sensor. But I wonder if they can secure a 5 axis stabilising module from Panasonic or rely solely on software stabilising which sacrifices a bit of a crop. Nevertheless it will improve on the original Air with 4k 120p video compared with HD on the former. One touch easy connectivity may be on pairing with smartphone and remote control but minus the mini LCD screen suggested by Robin which I think is hard to implement due to space constraints to make it usable without needing to attach to smartphone for those once in a lifetime grab shots on the fly.

Do note if you invest in the startup you are not promised a final product if at all but I think the Chinese are experienced enough to cobble together such a gadget as they are already familiar with making smartphones.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/halohub/switchlens-power-up-your-smartphone-into-a-pro-camera

 

[Pitachu]

The EP7 and EM10mk4 still carries the Olympus logo. I think OMDS is waiting for the stock to finished selling like the EM1 and EM5 and then introduced a OM-Pen to replace the EP7 and the OM10 to replce the EM10mk4 with minor firmware updates and the new OM Systems logo.

I personally would like a more capable OM-Pen as a backup and street camera that I can use my Olympus lenses.

Good or bad news for EP7 and OM4 MK4. Whether both are selling well or because of the EU directive effective after Dec. 2024 requiring standardised USB C power charging. Probably both cameras will evolved into EP8 or OM4 will cease production and morph into a MK2 OM5 ii.

Olympus Japan halts E-P7 and E-M10IV orders because of “high demand” – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

EU common charger directive kills the DSLR?

From 28 December 2024, the EU's directive will come into effect, impacting any phones and cameras that can't be charged via USB-C.

amateurphotographer.com

 

[ricohflex]

2 reasons cited for giving an award in June 2024 to OMDS 90mm F3.5 macro lens.

• Floating focus technology
• High-speed focusing mechanism and high-precision control technology using a stepping motor

Very strange award.

These 2 technologies are NOT new. They are other people's technical inventions from very long ago.


If floating focus is the same as floating element, then Minolta patented the floating system in 1958.
Nikkor 24mm F2.8 at 1967 was first production lens.

Numerous manufacturers have made lenses with floating elements.
Here are some from Nikon. Canon will have a long list too.

Nikkor lenses
13/5.6
15/5.6
15/3.5
18/3.5
20/2.8
24/2.8
24/2
28/2
28/2N
28/2.8
35/1.4N
35/1.4
85/1.4
55/2.8 micro
105/2.8 micro

Canon made the first stepping motor STM lens in 2012.
This is a partial ist.

Canon lenses
EF-S18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM
EF-M18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM (Silver)
EF-M18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM
EF50mm f/1.8 STM
EF-M22mm f/2 STM (Silver)
EF-S24mm f/2.8 STM
EF-M55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM
EF-S10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM
EF-M11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM
EF-M22mm f/2 STM

 

[ricohflex]

Recently met my friends.
One is a hobbyist.
The other is a camera salesman.

The hobbyist friend ordered to buy a Lumix S9 which is Full Frame.
The camera salesman said there are other buyers in Singapore who have placed orders for the Lumix S9.
So there are buyers for this camera in Singapore.

One of the possible reasons is price.
The entry bar for Leica L mount full frame is high. The price of Leica SL2 body is $10,240.
The Leica lenses for SL2 are expensive. For example Leica Apo-Summicron-SL 35mm F/2 Asph costs $7,300.

Price of Lumix S9 is $2,300.
The Lumix L mount 20 to 60 lens for full frame is about $640.
It gives the user an easier entry into Leica L mount system.

In future there will be Lumix S9 Mk2 and Mk3 with improvements.

This Full Frame L mount system has a future from 2024 onwards, for at least next 3 decades for a New camera buyer.
Which we cannot say for a MFT body (no future). - the topic of this thread.
If you are going to plonk down many thousands of dollars to buy a camera in 2024, do it wisely.

For Panasonic Lumix, if they want to survive and turn the camera division around to get better results, have to concentrate on Full Frame.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex you chop the sentence into the part relevant to you and go thru such extent to distort the truth.
You copy completely the 2nd sentence but you deliberately deleted the last part of the first sentence which makes it unique.

The award is for "

• ① Floating focus technology with a maximum shooting magnification of 4x in 35mm format
• ②High-speed focusing mechanism and high-precision control technology using a stepping motor

Does any of the lenses you have listed has a maximum shooting magnification of 4x in 35mm format???

For the Canon STM lenses you listed, I had one and I bought it because it is very silent during focusing which I thought it was good because I was shooting concerts during that time. But the focusing is slow. Why do you think Canon don't sell these STM lenses anymore? Simple - no market demand.

The keyword in the 2nd reason for the award is "High-speed"

2 reasons cited for giving an award in June 2024 to OMDS 90mm F3.5 macro lens.

• Floating focus technology
• High-speed focusing mechanism and high-precision control technology using a stepping motor

Very strange award.

These 2 technologies are NOT new. They are other people's technical inventions from very long ago.


If floating focus is the same as floating element, then Minolta patented the floating system in 1958.
Nikkor 24mm F2.8 at 1967 was first production lens.

Numerous manufacturers have made lenses with floating elements.
Here are some from Nikon. Canon will have a long list too.

Nikkor lenses
13/5.6
15/5.6
15/3.5
18/3.5
20/2.8
24/2.8
24/2
28/2
28/2N
28/2.8
35/1.4N
35/1.4
85/1.4
55/2.8 micro
105/2.8 micro

Canon made the first stepping motor STM lens in 2012.
This is a partial ist.

Canon lenses
EF-S18-55mm f/4-5.6 IS STM
EF-M18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM (Silver)
EF-M18-150mm f/3.5-6.3 IS STM
EF50mm f/1.8 STM
EF-M22mm f/2 STM (Silver)
EF-S24mm f/2.8 STM
EF-M55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM
EF-S10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM
EF-M11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM
EF-M22mm f/2 STM

 

[Pitachu]

I think it is more fair to compare the Lumix S9 with a Sony 7Cii or even a Leica M series.
The Leica SL2 is a joke for most photographers. I tried it at Cathay Photo during a workshop.
It is so huge and unwieldy that the few of us laughed after trying it. Unless you are doing some highly paid studio work like the speaker, most of us in the workshop agree that we will not be getting it despite having access to Leica premium APO lenses.

But I do agree that the L9 is a good entry level to use Leica L mount system.

It is sad that Olympus has not yet released an updated Pen Series but even if OM System released a new OM Pen, I dont think it is going to compete with the Lumix S9, just like OM System dont intend to compete with Full Frame cameras as a general camera. Generally, Full Frame cameras, Full Body or Compact, still requires huge lenses unless you can accept the compromise in Image Quality of Pancake lenses. I have tested the Sony 28-60 pancake lenses when the A7C is released and as expected, the image quality lose to my EM5 m3 with a 12-40 lenses even though the 12-40 (28-80) has a wider focal length.

Recently met my friends.
One is a hobbyist.
The other is a camera salesman.

The hobbyist friend ordered to buy a Lumix S9 which is Full Frame.
The camera salesman said there are other buyers in Singapore who have placed orders for the Lumix S9.
So there are buyers for this camera in Singapore.

One of the possible reasons is price.
The entry bar for Leica L mount full frame is high. The price of Leica SL2 body is $10,240.
The Leica lenses for SL2 are expensive. For example Leica Apo-Summicron-SL 35mm F/2 Asph costs $7,300.

Price of Lumix S9 is $2,300.
The Lumix L mount 20 to 60 lens for full frame is about $640.
It gives the user an easier entry into Leica L mount system.

In future there will be Lumix S9 Mk2 and Mk3 with improvements.

This Full Frame L mount system has a future from 2024 onwards, for at least next 3 decades for a New camera buyer.
Which we cannot say for a MFT body (no future). - the topic of this thread.
If you are going to plonk down many thousands of dollars to buy a camera in 2024, do it wisely.

For Panasonic Lumix, if they want to survive and turn the camera division around to get better results, have to concentrate on Full Frame.

 

[ricohflex]

Could be a marketing effort.
Maybe the OMDS 90mm F3.5 macro lens cannot sell at the price point. For a MFT camera body.
So they conjure up a dubious "award" to help sales. It is a sign of a dying company.

 

[Pitachu]

Agreed that the OMDS 90mm F3.5 is overpriced (about S$2100)!!!
But getting a Photo Society to grant an award don't sell any lenses.
Even a die-hard OM fan like me is not moved.
Only People who need it will buy it, whether it wins any award or not.
I am not buying not because it is no good, it is just that currently I dont have much time to shoot macro.
But I overhead in an Olympus event a few photographers actually pre-ordered when it was first released.

 

[Pitachu]

I just noticed a trend.

The latest Canon cameras R100, R8, R50, R6 ii are all 24 megapixel.
The latest Nikon cameras Z6iii, Zf, Z30 are 21mp to 25mp except the Z8.
The latest Sony cameras A9iii, 6700, ZV1 are 20-24mp except the &Cii and 7CR which are actually compact versions of existing A7iv and A7R5.

These 3 are the largest camera manufacturers with more than 90% market share.
Why is there a downward shift towards 20-25megapixel after they have came up with 33mp, 45mp and 61mp cameras?
It is definitely because of market demand. And 20-25megapixel has all long been the resolution M43 have been focusing on.

And do you really need a huge Full Frame sensor for less noise.
Go and get hold of the Sony A7Siii or ZVe1 where the base ISO is 12,800 with almost zero noise,
Then take several shots with your camera and see how many shots you really need the Full Frame sensor where noise reduction software is not able to help.

So it then boils down to whether you want better bokeh by having larger Full Frame lenses or further focal length and smaller lenses on M43.

Now that the most popular cameras are around 20+ megapixel, M43 is going to be an interesting alternative again. Just my thoughts.

 

[ricohflex]

Actually manufacturers make some of their cameras in their range to fit a price profile.
So that normal average people in 2024 can buy.
The 20 to 25 megapixel models are created for this purpose.

That does not mean that MFT cameras with 20 to 25 megapixels are "the right megapixel size" and it is all that you would ever need.

That does not mean that other more demanding photographers (who can afford) do not need more than 25 megapixels.
Of course they do.
Of course there are demanding technical/professional photography assignments that require very high megapixels.

Digital photography is in its infancy compared to film photography's more than 100 years development.

Certainly in future, 50 megapixels will be considered below average. Not even acceptable as "normal".

It is within living memory of most of us, when 4 megapixels was considered very big deal.
I actually owned a 2 megapixels Lumix camera which I have thrown away.
Thus, be optimistic above mankind's rapid progress in digital photography.

Camera manufacturers in 2024 do make camera models catering to a higher megapixel size + more expensive segment.
Leica M11 rangefinder 60 megapixel
Leica Q3 60 megapixel
Leica SL3 60 megapixel
Leica S3 64 megapixel (medium format)
Nikon Z8 45.7 megapixel
Nikon Z9 45.7 megapixel
Canon R5 45 megapixel
Canon R5 II 45 megapixel
Sony A1 50.1 megapixel
Sony A7 R5 61 megapixel
Sony a7C II 33 megapixel
Fujifilm X100VI APS-C 40.2 megapixel
Fuji XT5 40 megapixel
Fuji GFX100 II 102-megapixel (medium format)
Fuji GFX 50S II 51.4 megapixel (medium format)
Hasselbald X2D 100C 100 megapixel (medium format)
Hasselblad 907X 100 megapixel (medium format)
Alpa 12 TC - A-Series with PhaseOne IQ3 digital back 100 megapixel (medium format)
Alpa 12 TC - A-Series with PhaseOne XF IQ4 digital back 150 megapixel (medium format)

 

[Pitachu]

Of course they still make the Nikon Z9 and Sony A1 (both released in 2021) and they are great cameras.
But look at the first 3 sentences of my posts. I am talking about the LATEST release cameras by the 3 major manufacturers. LATEST.
Why only 20-25 megapixel? Why are they taking a step back?

And the latest Sony camera A9iii is also 24mp costing $8900!!!!!!! (not cheap and not for normal average people in 2024 to buy.
Sony has already released 61mp camera. Nikon has already released 45mp cameras. Why take a step back?

Yes, professionals want the highest resolution possible. But the reason why all these manufacturers are stepping back to about 24mp is because most people find it sufficient and affordable.

Actually manufacturers make some of their cameras in their range to fit a price profile.
So that normal average people in 2024 can buy.
The 20 to 25 megapixel models are created for this purpose.

That does not mean that MFT cameras with 20 to 25 megapixels are "the right megapixel size" and it is all that you would ever need.

That does not mean that other more demanding photographers (who can afford) do not need more than 25 megapixels.
Of course they do.
Of course there are demanding technical/professional photography assignments that require very high megapixels.

Digital photography is in its infancy compared to film photography's more than 100 years development.

Certainly in future, 50 megapixels will be considered below average. Not even acceptable as "normal".

It is within living memory of most of us, when 4 megapixels was considered very big deal.
I actually owned a 2 megapixels Lumix camera which I have thrown away.
Thus, be optimistic above mankind's rapid progress in digital photography.

Camera manufacturers in 2024 do make camera models catering to a higher megapixel size + more expensive segment.
Leica M11 rangefinder 60 megapixel
Leica Q3 60 megapixel
Leica SL3 60 megapixel
Leica S3 64 megapixel (medium format)
Nikon Z8 45.7 megapixel
Nikon Z9 45.7 megapixel
Canon R5 45 megapixel
Canon R5 II 45 megapixel
Sony A1 50.1 megapixel
Sony A7 R5 61 megapixel
Sony a7C II 33 megapixel
Fujifilm X100VI APS-C 40.2 megapixel
Fuji XT5 40 megapixel
Fuji GFX100 II 102-megapixel (medium format)
Fuji GFX 50S II 51.4 megapixel (medium format)
Hasselbald X2D 100C 100 megapixel (medium format)
Hasselblad 907X 100 megapixel (medium format)
Alpa 12 TC - A-Series with PhaseOne IQ3 digital back 100 megapixel (medium format)
Alpa 12 TC - A-Series with PhaseOne XF IQ4 digital back 150 megapixel (medium format)

 

[one eye jack]

The real reason of 24 MP sensors is an optimal balance of resolution and low light performance. Film and now digital have no free lunch. Whether you want to accept it or not is a high resolution sensor with more powerful processing can produce good photos but in the hands of average or newbie photographer it can give mixed results so think logically and don't be swayed by marketing.

You have noticed people say when they upgraded to high resolution camera they cannot get sharp photos. Well there is micro blur which is present in all cameras but when resolution is 33mp or more it is more pronounced. This is seldom acknowledged or talked about because marketing tells you it is new technology but is it? Also please don't ask for more resolution in M43 sensors , because of crop factor a 20mp one is equivalent to 80mp fullframe. So Fujifilm 40mp one is a whopping 90mp.

Thread views have crossed 102k.

 

[one eye jack]

Megapixels vs photo quality.

Old tech vs new tech. You can pick up a d700 12mp for a song nowadays.

Z9 vs d850 , 45mp Vs 45mp.
Does the photo look familiar to you?

A look at today's technology.
Nikon Z8 a baby Z9? It might surprise you. No wonder people are off loading Z9 which Nikon is is trying to fix but this review was 4 months ago and perhaps Nikon has fixed the problem.

Sony a7r5 vs Nikon z8 high resolution sensors . Just don't over expose them.

 

[Pitachu]

Ha Ha...just can't help laughing when I see the Z9. That is the same mistake Olympus make with the EM-1x.
Most users want a built in vertical grip, unless you are a pro who shoot daily and need a vertical grip.
If I every need one, then I will get it as an add on.
On days I am shooting street or travel, I like to remove L-Brackets, cage, tripod mount plates and put a small lenses to walk around.
Why would I want a built in vertical grip when probably only 20% of my shots are portrait shots, where I can just rotate the camera.

 

[one eye jack]

OMDS 20MP no enough? Forget format, right tool for right job. Just create and make yourself happy.

 

[ricohflex]

Different camera manufacturers have different contract clauses for their "Ambassadors".
Well, if the ambassador agrees to the terms, then stick by it.
Brand X may not like its famous Ambassador (maybe with 5 million followers who are influenced by him in their buying decisions) to often use Brand Y.
To Brand X management, that sends mixed signals to the prospective customers and affects their brand's market share.
It is not about being close-minded to new technologies and what the rivals can offer.
It is about corporate money + business jealousy.

"The Format does not matter" can be said by people who can afford and who wish to own several systems of different brands of cameras, lenses and accessories.
Can buy 5 bodies of MFT + 10 MFT lenses + Flash + remote controls, etc.
Can buy 5 bodies of APS-C + 10 APS-C lenses + Flash + remote controls, etc.
Can buy 5 bodies of Full Frame + 10 Full Frame lenses + Flash + remote controls, etc.
Can buy 5 bodies of Medium Format + 10 Medium Format lenses + Flash + remote controls, etc.
What is the problem?
They got money.
So as per their quirk on any particular day, they just choose which format they like to use.

When you have a Full Frame high megapixel (say 60 MP) camera you can always choose to take a photo at a lower megapixel setting (say 8 MP).
The reverse cannot be done. It is impossible.
When you have a MFT low megapixel (say 20 MP) camera you CANNOT choose to take a photo at higher megapixel setting (say 60 MP).
We are not talking about photo stacking of inanimate objects.

So when an ordinary average consumer walks into a camera shop, he has a lot to choose from.
He has to choose wisely. He may or may not add to that initial purchase over the years with more bodies, lenses, accessories.
So that the SYSTEM and FORMAT he chooses - has a FUTURE.

If he chooses wrongly, he hits a wall and a dead end.

People who advise others to buy whatever item must be ethical and be cognizant of the pitfalls - which may not be obvious to a novice.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex, Wow you went to such extreme to type a long paragraphy of "Can buy 5 bodes of ......" which does not exist.
Let me share how a typical photographer get started.
Most people including myself started with 1 camera with 1 or 2 lenses. I like to nature and wildlife so a MFT with 2x Focal Multiplier works great for me. With my EM5 mk3, I carry a 12-60 (24-120) and a 100-300(200-600) all in a waist pouch which a FF system cannot fit in. This system lasted me for 4 years before I upgrade to OM-1.

As my interest in other genres of photography grows (eg. Portrait, Astro etc), I bought a Sony A7iii to get lenses with wider DOF and aperture, which I find my M43 system a little restrictive. So it only takes 2 camera bodies to cover most pro and cons of each system, no need 5 camera bodies and 10 lenses of every single format. My friend did the same with a APSC camera and a medium format camera.

How much protection to the future you want?
My phone, laptop, tablet all lasted only 3 to 4 years before I upgrade.
Why should I expect my Digital Camera to last longer than that?
After all, it is not a collectible film camera.

The thing which last the longest are my M43 lenses (about 5 years now) and receiving updates from OM Systems and Panasonic.

I have already mentioned in my earlier post that the latest cameras released (read again, release not manufacture, pls dont twist it) are 24 mp.
People buying a 20mp or 24mp obviously have take this into consideration before buying it and probably do not need anything higher than 24mp.

@ricohflex, just for your info, on my OM-1 I can shoot 80mp images and print out a large poster if I want, so don't say 20mp cameras cannot get 60mp.

Different camera manufacturers have different contract clauses for their "Ambassadors".
Well, if the ambassador agrees to the terms, then stick by it.
Brand X may not like its famous Ambassador (maybe with 5 million followers who are influenced by him in their buying decisions) to often use Brand Y.
To Brand X management, that sends mixed signals to the prospective customers and affects their brand's market share.
It is not about being close-minded to new technologies and what the rivals can offer.
It is about corporate money + business jealousy.

"The Format does not matter" can be said by people who can afford and who wish to own several systems of different brands of cameras, lenses and accessories.
Can buy 5 bodies of MFT + 10 MFT lenses + Flash + remote controls, etc.
Can buy 5 bodies of APS-C + 10 APS-C lenses + Flash + remote controls, etc.
Can buy 5 bodies of Full Frame + 10 Full Frame lenses + Flash + remote controls, etc.
Can buy 5 bodies of Medium Format + 10 Medium Format lenses + Flash + remote controls, etc.
What is the problem?
They got money.
So as per their quirk on any particular day, they just choose which format they like to use.

When you have a Full Frame high megapixel (say 60 MP) camera you can always choose to take a photo at a lower megapixel setting (say 8 MP).
The reverse cannot be done. It is impossible.
When you have a MFT low megapixel (say 20 MP) camera you CANNOT choose to take a photo at higher megapixel setting (say 60 MP).
We are not talking about photo stacking of inanimate objects.

So when an ordinary average consumer walks into a camera shop, he has a lot to choose from.
He has to choose wisely. He may or may not add to that initial purchase over the years with more bodies, lenses, accessories.
So that the SYSTEM and FORMAT he chooses - has a FUTURE.

If he chooses wrongly, he hits a wall and a dead end.

People who advise others to buy whatever item must be ethical and be cognizant of the pitfalls - which may not be obvious to a novice.

 

[one eye jack]

@ricohflex you are not being coherent.

If he chooses wrongly, he hits a wall and a dead end.

A camera is a camera, there is no dead end. You can do what a smartphone does except make a phone call.

When you have a Full Frame high megapixel (say 60 MP) camera you can always choose to take a photo at a lower megapixel setting (say 8 MP).
The reverse cannot be done. It is impossible.
When you have a MFT low megapixel (say 20 MP) camera you CANNOT choose to take a photo at higher megapixel setting (say 60 MP).
We are not talking about photo stacking of inanimate objects.

In my previous post I have stated, m43 20mp sensor is equivalent to a 80mp. Fullframe except in a smaller sensor real estate.

Different camera manufacturers have different contract clauses for their "Ambassadors".
Well, if the ambassador agrees to the terms, then stick by it.
Brand X may not like its famous Ambassador (maybe with 5 million followers who are influenced by him in their buying decisions) to often use Brand Y.
To Brand X management, that sends mixed signals to the prospective customers and affects their brand's market share.
It is not about being close-minded to new technologies and what the rivals can offer.
It is about corporate money + business jealousy.

Jimmy Cheng has said he received no money from OMDS except advance notification of new product announcements and gear. Also a small discount if he purchase equipment. He receives income from YouTube for his videos and working as a professional photographer to feed his family. Surely OMDS cannot begrudge Jimmy if he decides to use or review other types of equipment.

People who advise others to buy whatever item must be ethical and be cognizant of the pitfalls - which may not be obvious to a novice.

Jimmy's channel is for people who use m43 and those thinking of having an additional system. I am sure Jimmy will give the appropriate advice to a novice unlike the other YouTubers who does not work a photographer but mainly as an influencer on YouTuber to entice people to have the latest or greatest gear. Surely a novice has some intelligence and common sense.

So when an ordinary average consumer walks into a camera shop, he has a lot to choose from.
He has to choose wisely. He may or may not add to that initial purchase over the years with more bodies, lenses, accessories.
So that the SYSTEM and FORMAT he chooses - has a FUTURE.

A future..Ha! Again an ordinary average consumer is not stupid.

Talk about the future. This crowd funded camera was made to the tune of usd$ 187 million dollars.
It boasted that it will replace conventional cameras and is pocketable except it cannot make a phone call. Even Google invested $30 million well it lost. This camera is functionally dead...what future?

 

[one eye jack]

He shoots film and fullframe as well. Also a Lumix ambassador.

Does his fullframe look any different from m43?