WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[Pitachu]

Panasonic is going to release another smaller camera on 5 June (see link below).
I am wishing it is an update of the GX8 with its new 26mp sensor and phase detect focusing.
I really enjoyed using my brothers GX8 with the small tiny Leica 12-60 F2.8-4 lenses.
That was the most compact ILC rangefinder setup for my travels until I got the EM5 mk3.

New Panasonic (MFT?) Camera announcement on June 5? – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[one eye jack]

I'm not surprised that Panasonic has lined up this june5 camera as it is trying to improve their business in this sector. It's a matter of life and death. They understand that if they do not claw their way back into profitability then it will be sayonara.

What will this camera be? Well I it may be 50/50 that it will be an APSC or m43 sensor. Are they going to take Fujifilm head on or they think it's time to concentrate on the stills/ photographic side that Lumix is a weak at? I think it will be a Panasonic version of Leica dlux8 as they have done in the past since they only have to do minor changes in the toolings for the camera. Hopefully it will also include the live lut of S9 and maybe more, an evf and hot shoe?

Meanwhile Panasonic is going to sell off it's projector business to have cash in their warchest for their other businesses and hopefully allocate some for camera division of $510 million.

Edit: FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BOLD.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-deals/Panasonic-to-sell-projector-business-to-fill-growth-war-chest

 

[ricohflex]

Olympus (and now OMDS) mistake was to concentrate of Wildlife.
How many people do you know, who spend most of their time on "wildlife" photography?
Yes, that is right. The answer is close to negligible. Near to Zero.
Pegging OMDS future to a less than 1% market segment is suicidal.
The inevitable demise of OMDS is the outcome.

Why do YouTube pundits expect a MFT or very small sensor compact camera - when Panasonic hints at "non full frame"?

It can be a medium format digital camera. After all, Fuji, Hassel are already doing this.

 

[one eye jack]

Olympus (and now OMDS) mistake was to concentrate of Wildlife.
How many people do you know, who spend most of their time on "wildlife" photography?
Yes, that is right. The answer is close to negligible. Near to Zero.
Pegging OMDS future to a less than 1% market segment is suicidal.
The inevitable demise of OMDS is the outcome.

Why do YouTube pundits expect a MFT or very small sensor compact camera - when Panasonic hints at "non full frame"?

It can be a medium format digital camera. After all, Fuji, Hassel are already doing this.

@ricohflex, this tread already at 99k views will not be what it is without your valuable contribution. Medium format..this brings into another area of discussion thank you. But let's wait till 5th. June to see what Panasonic will reveal.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex i dont think you are not a wildlife photographer and have zero wildlife photographers friends.
But that does not mean that the market is Near to Zero. It is small compared to the whole photography industry
but it is still substantial (about US$15 million in 2024). Probably more than all the Pentax or Leica sold.

By the way, I joint a photographic society birding trip about 25 pax and 4 of them used Olympus (16%.)
Again it is not near zero.

Also, I am a Olympus Owner but I dont spent most of my time on wildlife photography.
Even my OM-1 is no longer as small as my EM5iii, it is still my first choice when I want to carry 1 lenses 1 camera.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/wildlife-photography-cameras-market-size-insights-xtalf/

Olympus (and now OMDS) mistake was to concentrate of Wildlife.
How many people do you know, who spend most of their time on "wildlife" photography?
Yes, that is right. The answer is close to negligible. Near to Zero.
Pegging OMDS future to a less than 1% market segment is suicidal.
The inevitable demise of OMDS is the outcome.

Why do YouTube pundits expect a MFT or very small sensor compact camera - when Panasonic hints at "non full frame"?

It can be a medium format digital camera. After all, Fuji, Hassel are already doing this.

 

[JW73]

5th June release, most likely the Leica DLux 8 twin bro LX100iii which uses the 43 sensor.

 

[one eye jack]

T & C's take on Panasonic's Osaka event or similar promotion.

 

[ricohflex]

A good video discussion by Tony and Chelsea Northrup. Which was a followup of Gerald Undone's discussion on Camera Reviews.

Some observations:
• Consumers are NOT dumb idiots. They watch camera review videos and take them with a pinch of salt. That is why the former Olympus Camera Division failed and had to wind up despite having torrents of flattering YouTube reviews by dubious unwholesome characters.
• Sometimes the flattering reviews are used by the manufacturer companies to bluff themselves and their parent companies - that all is wonderful. That the useless camera product they made, that no one wants - is the best in the world and will be in high demand.
• Who does not want to be invited for a VERY luxurious and EXPENSIVE trip halfway around the world to an exotic location to do a "camera review"? It probably costs US$100,000 per person to pay for the First Class air tickets, top grade Presidential hotel suites for 1 week, wining & dining at 3 star Michelin restaurants, etc....
• It is basically a pre-paid Bribe with no pre-conditions. So you better say good things about the camera.
• If you do, then you can look forward to future similar Reward Trips every 1 or 2 years.
• If you condemn the camera, you will be disbarred and not be invited in future. All other manufacturers will stay away from you. Suddenly the honest camera reviewer becomes an Outcast. He learns that honesty has a terrible price.
• The other camera reviewers will be frightened by the punishment imposed on the honest reviewer - and they learn to grovel.
• When camera manufacturers do this big budget camera review events - it is a marketing exercise. It is Quid Pro Quo.

 

[Pitachu]

LOL! Wow! @ricohflex Is that your weekend joke to take the whole story totally out of context?
First Class Tickets, Presidential Suite, Michelin Meals?????? $100K per reviewer?
If @ricohflex is in charge of any marketing of any manufacturer's launch campaign,
that is a sure way to blow the budget off into space. Come on, even to invite 20 reviewers
would cost $2 Million, how many cameras they need to sell just to break even.

In the course of my work, I was for fortunate to be invited for 1 or 2 of these events.
Yes, nice dinner, free airtickets and hotel but definitely not First Class Airtickets or Presidential Suite.
No hotel has so many presidential suites! LOL. Plus a purchaser from another company who went with me
with a huge multimillion order also did not get any presidential suite. Don't Kid yourself.

As Gerald Undone say, it is not a big deal even if you cannot turn up.

A good video discussion by Tony and Chelsea Northrup. Which was a followup of Gerald Undone's discussion on Camera Reviews.

Some observations:
• Consumers are NOT dumb idiots. They watch camera review videos and take them with a pinch of salt. That is why the former Olympus Camera Division failed and had to wind up despite having torrents of flattering YouTube reviews by dubious unwholesome characters.
• Sometimes the flattering reviews are used by the manufacturer companies to bluff themselves and their parent companies - that all is wonderful. That the useless camera product they made, that no one wants - is the best in the world and will be in high demand.
• Who does not want to be invited for a VERY luxurious and EXPENSIVE trip halfway around the world to an exotic location to do a "camera review"? It probably costs US$100,000 per person to pay for the First Class air tickets, top grade Presidential hotel suites for 1 week, wining & dining at 3 star Michelin restaurants, etc....
• It is basically a pre-paid Bribe with no pre-conditions. So you better say good things about the camera.
• If you do, then you can look forward to future similar Reward Trips every 1 or 2 years.
• If you condemn the camera, you will be disbarred and not be invited in future. All other manufacturers will stay away from you. Suddenly the honest camera reviewer becomes an Outcast. He learns that honesty has a terrible price.
• The other camera reviewers will be frightened by the punishment imposed on the honest reviewer - and they learn to grovel.
• When camera manufacturers do this big budget camera review events - it is a marketing exercise. It is Quid Pro Quo.

 

[Pitachu]

"torrents of flattering YouTube reviews by dubious unwholesome characters." ????
Seriously, are you that ignorant? Most of the reviewers are quite established and have their own channels for years
although some of them are from some major camera stalls.

Instead of keep accusing Olympus / OM Systems of using dubious unwholesome characters,
can you show us some reviews by these people who have said something totally untrue about Olympus / OM Systems Cameras?
@ricohflex I think the readers here will be more interested if you could point these out to us.

A good video discussion by Tony and Chelsea Northrup. Which was a followup of Gerald Undone's discussion on Camera Reviews.

Some observations:
• Consumers are NOT dumb idiots. They watch camera review videos and take them with a pinch of salt. That is why the former Olympus Camera Division failed and had to wind up despite having torrents of flattering YouTube reviews by dubious unwholesome characters.
• Sometimes the flattering reviews are used by the manufacturer companies to bluff themselves and their parent companies - that all is wonderful. That the useless camera product they made, that no one wants - is the best in the world and will be in high demand.
• Who does not want to be invited for a VERY luxurious and EXPENSIVE trip halfway around the world to an exotic location to do a "camera review"? It probably costs US$100,000 per person to pay for the First Class air tickets, top grade Presidential hotel suites for 1 week, wining & dining at 3 star Michelin restaurants, etc....
• It is basically a pre-paid Bribe with no pre-conditions. So you better say good things about the camera.
• If you do, then you can look forward to future similar Reward Trips every 1 or 2 years.
• If you condemn the camera, you will be disbarred and not be invited in future. All other manufacturers will stay away from you. Suddenly the honest camera reviewer becomes an Outcast. He learns that honesty has a terrible price.
• The other camera reviewers will be frightened by the punishment imposed on the honest reviewer - and they learn to grovel.
• When camera manufacturers do this big budget camera review events - it is a marketing exercise. It is Quid Pro Quo.

 

[one eye jack]

Prelude to 5th. June? He went to Osaka and said S9 will sell more cameras which is good news for Panasonic. @18:15 conversation turn to m43 ( 5th. June which they are unaware of ).

Thread views has crossed 100k.

 

[ricohflex]

What if on 5 Jun 2024 Panasonic Lumix announces the abandonment of Micro Four Thirds?
Henceforth Panasonic Lumix will concentrate on L mount and Full Frame.
To consolidate production lines.

 

[one eye jack]

He went to Osaka too and he said Lumix S9 is not meant to be a professional workhorse so camera snobs stop wasting time hating it and get a life. With all that said, will wednesday 5th. June Panasonic will reveal a camera most people want? Small and compact with features that put a smile on your face?

Ya small light and compact, Panasonic may surprise on wednesday 5th. June judging from this Leica fan.

 

[Pitachu]

That does not make sense!

Are you saying that Panasonic after releasing the M43 G9ii, announced theM43 GH7, announced that its LUT app will support G9ii and then on 5 June 2024, announce it is going to abandon M43 instead of announcing a new camera?

No company will manage its marketing and public communications this way!
This is a sure way to drive any company into the ground.

I am just curious @ricohflex what is your job?
I sure hope you are not the CEO or Marketing Mgr or Corp Comms Mgr of any company? LOL

What if on 5 Jun 2024 Panasonic Lumix announces the abandonment of Micro Four Thirds?
Henceforth Panasonic Lumix will concentrate on L mount and Full Frame.
To consolidate production lines.

 

[one eye jack]

Now he said GH7, Lx100 or none at all on 5th. June.

Canon coming out with R5 MK2 WOW camera better than Z9 or C70 on same day?

 

[Pitachu]

Looks like it is going to be the GH7 instead of a M43 version of the S9 or LX100.
This make senses as all long Panasonic has a foothold in the video market with the GH series.

I am not a video guy, but my friend in agency told me why they like the GH series,
it is because it can shoot RAW. To do the same in Full Frame the equipment cost a bomb and
the files are too huge!

Confirmed: Panasonic will announce the new Lumix GH7 on June 5! – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[ricohflex]

Currently Lumix S9 is being criticized by some.
Including Robin Wong who calls it crippled for photographers. Maybe they are correct.

This is a first try. How will its success or failure affect Micro Four Third's future - which is the subject of this thread.

Do you remember how lousy the first Sony A7 Full Frame Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless camera body was?
That was in October 2013. Competitors laughed.
At that time Canon and Nikon were making loads of money selling DSLRs with mirror and pentaprism.

Now in 2024 Sony's competitors are not laughing.
Sony ate their lunch.

If Canon and Nikon did not have an epiphany and WAKE UP in 2018, to introduce mirrorless camera systems.
By 2024, both Canon and Nikon would have been destroyed by Sony.

In 2024 the Panasonic Lumix S9 is just as lousy as Sony's A7 first model in 2013.

The difference between Sony and Panasonic Lumix lies in how receptive the companies are to criticisms/feedback.
How fast the company can rectify and come out with a new model with vast improvements.
Sony does make mistakes. But see how fast they correct their mistakes and steer the company in right direction.


A7 A7 II A7 III A7 IV
2013 2014 2018 2021

The time line of product roll out, shows how fast Sony can react to make new models, kill off bad mistakes, respond to user criticisms.

Sony a7
Sony a7R
Sony Alpha a5000
Sony a6000
Sony a7S
Sony SLT-A77 II
Sony a5100
Sony Alpha QX1
Sony a7 II
Sony a7R II
Sony a7S II
Sony SLT-A68
Sony a6300
Sony a99 II
Sony a6500
Sony a9
Sony a7R III
Sony a7 III
Sony a6400
Sony a7R IV
Sony a6600
Sony a6100
Sony a9 II
Sony a7S III
Sony a7C
Sony a1
Sony FX3
Sony a7R IIIA
Sony a7R IVA
Sony ZV-E10
Sony a7 IV
Sony FX30
Sony a7R V
Sony ZV-E1
Sony a6700
Sony a7CR
Sony a7C II
Sony a9 III


Sony has the money/budget and the managerial guts to do that.
Does Panasonic Lumix have?
How soon can Panasonic Lumix roll out an improved Lumix S9 Mk2? If it is 16 years later in the year 2040. Then it is too late.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex For years you have been advocating that M43 manufacturers should switch to Full Frame sensors and the Panasonic S9 clearly illustrates the challenges any manufacturer will face when going to a new sensor format. This is clearly trying to follow the footsteps of Sony A7c series, and Sony did receive several unfavorable feedback on the A7c mark 1.

It is clear that Panasonic is only testing water with the S9, that is why it has not invested in coming out with several compact FF lenses yet. It probably need other L Mount manufacturers to combine volume to introduce some of these lenses, like the recent Sony compact FF lenses.

But Panasonic clearly knows where to leverage its strength by coming out with the GH7 to continue to engage its videographers users and the LUT app, which supports the G9ii, the GH7 besides the S9. Sony is rumored to do something similar on the A7 mk 5 (probably to be released this year).

Olympus on the hand, chose to remain in M43, innovating features like 120fps, electronic ND and gradual ND and pro capture, which Sony and Nikon only managed to copy some of these features lately with the A9iii.

Competition in the Full Frame market is very fierce, and even Nikon and Canon find it challenging innovating and retaining their market share. Pentax ventured into the Full Frame market in 2018 and has not introduced any new model since 2018!!!! At least OM Systems and Panasonic M43 cameras are still surviving and with updates to newer models

Currently Lumix S9 is being criticized by some.
Including Robin Wong who calls it crippled for photographers. Maybe they are correct.

This is a first try. How will its success or failure affect Micro Four Third's future - which is the subject of this thread.

Do you remember how lousy the first Sony A7 Full Frame Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless camera body was?
That was in October 2013. Competitors laughed.
At that time Canon and Nikon were making loads of money selling DSLRs with mirror and pentaprism.

Now in 2024 Sony's competitors are not laughing.
Sony ate their lunch.

If Canon and Nikon did not have an epiphany and WAKE UP in 2018, to introduce mirrorless camera systems.
By 2024, both Canon and Nikon would have been destroyed by Sony.

In 2024 the Panasonic Lumix S9 is just as lousy as Sony's A7 first model in 2013.

The difference between Sony and Panasonic Lumix lies in how receptive the companies are to criticisms/feedback.
How fast the company can rectify and come out with a new model with vast improvements.
A7 A7 II A7 III A7 IV
2013 2014 2018 2021


Sony a7
Sony a7R
Sony Alpha a5000
Sony a6000
Sony a7S
Sony SLT-A77 II
Sony a5100
Sony Alpha QX1
Sony a7 II
Sony a7R II
Sony a7S II
Sony SLT-A68
Sony a6300
Sony a99 II
Sony a6500
Sony a9
Sony a7R III
Sony a7 III
Sony a6400
Sony a7R IV
Sony a6600
Sony a6100
Sony a9 II
Sony a7S III
Sony a7C
Sony a1
Sony FX3
Sony a7R IIIA
Sony a7R IVA
Sony ZV-E10
Sony a7 IV
Sony FX30
Sony a7R V
Sony ZV-E1
Sony a6700
Sony a7CR
Sony a7C II
Sony a9 III


Sony has the money/budget and the managerial guts to do that.
Does Panasonic Lumix have?

 

[one eye jack]

June 5 drags to June 6 at 5 am means 1 pm. Singapore time.
GH7!!!

 

[Pitachu]

Looking at the almost confirmed specs of the Panasonic GH7, it certain look very impressive.
My friend using a Sony A7S3 has to use an external recorder to get 32bit recording!
4K120P, Open Gate, Internal ProRes Raw (without using a Ninja monitor) is not available in any Full frame Mirrorless cameras.

I am not saying Full Frame is not good. You actually do not need super high resolution of those high end Mirrorless for video.
Having very high resolution requires very high bandwidth. This is another advantage of M43 besides having the 2x focal multiplier.

Le's hope all the rumored specs are true.