What Made you choose the Panasonic GF1 or Olympus Pen?
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microcosm
Senior Member
Just thought of sharing this...
What people may fail to see in this section of the forums is the culture of which we agree to disagree to freely share what our preferences and likes are... so that those who can relate to a particular photographer will then tend to lean towards the same skill, style and even equipment choice.
I was influenced by Francisco Hidelgo, Annie Leibovitz, Herb Ritts, Wong How Kin, and some of the old masters whose choice of cameras all included Leica Rangefinders, Mamiya and Hasselblad medium format, (let's not even talk about large formats here).
Over the last twenty two years, I grew up shooting with these gears professionally :
- Nikon film cameras (Nikkor lenses, then Carl Zeiss lenses)
- Hasselblad
- Mamiya
- Bronica
Interestingly, in the digital era, I only shoot with Olympus (attracted to Zuiko Digital, thanks to the E-1 launch) though I had flings with 1DS, D3, and Pentax cameras, and some Leica compacts (rebadged Panasonic they say).
There is a common factor among these camera systems that set them apart from the other brands. Colors, contrast, shadow details and most importantly, warmth. For black and whites, Leica has always been the undisputed champions since the days of old school journalism in the early-mid 20th century. And I have to thank especially to Mr Wong How Kin who have immensely influenced me with his immaculate and unrelentless attention to color details who actually introduced me to color meters and light meters. He is one who moulded me by screwing me left right centre and making a lot of gear accessible to me when all I could but dream of using Hasseys and high end Nikons. Albert Chng who introduced me to sports and event photography and the era of high end Nikon film camera. Last but not least, Mohd Ishak who started everything in 1980 with a black and white photo shot on a Nikon F2AS. I still have that image to remind me why I fell in love with photography.
Compacts that accompanied me included :
- Olympus mju series
- Nikon PnS
- Yashica T*4
- Olympus digital compacts 2020, 3030, 5050.
- Nikon Coolpix 5000 (I had this for the longest time).
- - -
The reason I shared my list of cameras that I grew up with because they strongly influence the way I chose my camera system and what it can do for me. I never bought into marketing of camera companies, but to make judgement from the eye that was developed by my mentors. All we really need in a camera are the basic functionalities :
Shutter control.
Aperture control.
WB correction (we used gels in the past).
AF when we are lazy.
ISO control to determine the amount of noise we need. (That is why I hate Canon except the 1DS)
In the rare case which never happens to me personally, bells and whistles that makes a camera system complete like WiFi, infrared trigger system... this is where Nikon shines like a star.
I judge whether a camera system is for me by their flagship cameras. Their spin offs are usually considered "cheap copies of the real thing" and will usually be seriously lacking in some imaging capabilities that force photographers to eventually end up with the high end cameras. The sensors of the flagship cameras usually are able to stand up against time. Even when they are outdated. Look at some of the images from Nikon D2, early 1D, and heck, even the Olympus E1. The colors, the contrast, the details... some of the new entry level camera systems cannot even compare by a mile!
(This makes me wonder, isn't it better to buy a used high end pro camera than to buy a new entry level camera? But this is not for everyone of course).
Then came a new format called micro Four Thirds. There are little tweaks in the camera system that sets it apart from PnS cameras and able to compete with some entry to mid level DSLRs. Honestly speaking, reviewing through the images between my trusty E3 and E-P1, I still see the E-3 producing better images.
But the format is a first and foremost consumer camera system. Will never be comparable to DSLR system costing a lot more because of the imaging system and other things that makes them powerful. But m43 is lighter. Uses future-looking CDAF system that requires no calibration unlike the PDAF systems. They are the ultimate travel camera, no doubt about it. But the CDAF will never be able to capture fast moving objects. Those who captured animals and babies in action in lower light are simply, more experienced photographers. Anyone who picks up a camera and thinks they can simply do the same must be joking. Anticipating action is what makes a seasoned shooter a better shooter. And having patience. You think it is easy to shoot an otter or even the common rat? I really want to see a m43 system shooting that in the wild. That person will command serious respect if he is able to. (At least I know I cannot).
The best way to make a purchase decision is based on making a check list on what is important to you. If you are one who wants the most popular brands, because it makes you look cool, you already have cancelled "lesser brands" and stick to Canikon.
If you are open to all, then your list will look a little like mine :
- Lens quality. Optics is everything to capture light (which is what photography is about).
- Color reproduction and gradualty.
- Shadow details. (Lens and sensor working together).
- Contrast at one time (today it is determined by software).
- Sensor capabilities (that is how Nikon lost me in the early days of digital).
- Ability to capture minute details (today we know it is about the AA glass design).
- Compatibility and future proofing systems. Minolta, Konica, all crashed and burn... Panasonic simply have no loyalty to their customers, so that is out. Canon and Nikon confuse the hell out of me with their variation.
- Weather proofing and build quality (body and lens). Fragile equipment simply don't make the cut.
(No surprise ALL medium format cameras fulfill the above requirements).
Noise, ISO performance is not in my list. Anyone who understands basic physics will know what you are dealing with. Neither is Dynamic Range though it has to be within reasonable range and today's cameras can deliver that.
Why the three points are never an issue? Because there is software to correct these things and I am too big a photographer to let a camera tell me what it wants to do for me. I am in control, not the camera. Realised what is the highest ISO setting on cameras that can buy cars? There is a reason behind it.
DR is not important because I have shot slides so any digital camera today is already a blessing.
And back to this m43 thing. Look through my list mentioned above and you understand why Pen is a serious photographer's pet. Not because I am an Olympus fan. They deliver what I need. Pen is my leisure camera. And my simple video camera replacement. Art Filters provide entertainment and the wows. iBeauty and iEnhance mode allows me to be lazy. That is how I see things.
What people may fail to see in this section of the forums is the culture of which we agree to disagree to freely share what our preferences and likes are... so that those who can relate to a particular photographer will then tend to lean towards the same skill, style and even equipment choice.
I was influenced by Francisco Hidelgo, Annie Leibovitz, Herb Ritts, Wong How Kin, and some of the old masters whose choice of cameras all included Leica Rangefinders, Mamiya and Hasselblad medium format, (let's not even talk about large formats here).
Over the last twenty two years, I grew up shooting with these gears professionally :
- Nikon film cameras (Nikkor lenses, then Carl Zeiss lenses)
- Hasselblad
- Mamiya
- Bronica
Interestingly, in the digital era, I only shoot with Olympus (attracted to Zuiko Digital, thanks to the E-1 launch) though I had flings with 1DS, D3, and Pentax cameras, and some Leica compacts (rebadged Panasonic they say).
There is a common factor among these camera systems that set them apart from the other brands. Colors, contrast, shadow details and most importantly, warmth. For black and whites, Leica has always been the undisputed champions since the days of old school journalism in the early-mid 20th century. And I have to thank especially to Mr Wong How Kin who have immensely influenced me with his immaculate and unrelentless attention to color details who actually introduced me to color meters and light meters. He is one who moulded me by screwing me left right centre and making a lot of gear accessible to me when all I could but dream of using Hasseys and high end Nikons. Albert Chng who introduced me to sports and event photography and the era of high end Nikon film camera. Last but not least, Mohd Ishak who started everything in 1980 with a black and white photo shot on a Nikon F2AS. I still have that image to remind me why I fell in love with photography.
Compacts that accompanied me included :
- Olympus mju series
- Nikon PnS
- Yashica T*4
- Olympus digital compacts 2020, 3030, 5050.
- Nikon Coolpix 5000 (I had this for the longest time).
- - -
The reason I shared my list of cameras that I grew up with because they strongly influence the way I chose my camera system and what it can do for me. I never bought into marketing of camera companies, but to make judgement from the eye that was developed by my mentors. All we really need in a camera are the basic functionalities :
Shutter control.
Aperture control.
WB correction (we used gels in the past).
AF when we are lazy.
ISO control to determine the amount of noise we need. (That is why I hate Canon except the 1DS)
In the rare case which never happens to me personally, bells and whistles that makes a camera system complete like WiFi, infrared trigger system... this is where Nikon shines like a star.
I judge whether a camera system is for me by their flagship cameras. Their spin offs are usually considered "cheap copies of the real thing" and will usually be seriously lacking in some imaging capabilities that force photographers to eventually end up with the high end cameras. The sensors of the flagship cameras usually are able to stand up against time. Even when they are outdated. Look at some of the images from Nikon D2, early 1D, and heck, even the Olympus E1. The colors, the contrast, the details... some of the new entry level camera systems cannot even compare by a mile!
(This makes me wonder, isn't it better to buy a used high end pro camera than to buy a new entry level camera? But this is not for everyone of course).
Then came a new format called micro Four Thirds. There are little tweaks in the camera system that sets it apart from PnS cameras and able to compete with some entry to mid level DSLRs. Honestly speaking, reviewing through the images between my trusty E3 and E-P1, I still see the E-3 producing better images.
But the format is a first and foremost consumer camera system. Will never be comparable to DSLR system costing a lot more because of the imaging system and other things that makes them powerful. But m43 is lighter. Uses future-looking CDAF system that requires no calibration unlike the PDAF systems. They are the ultimate travel camera, no doubt about it. But the CDAF will never be able to capture fast moving objects. Those who captured animals and babies in action in lower light are simply, more experienced photographers. Anyone who picks up a camera and thinks they can simply do the same must be joking. Anticipating action is what makes a seasoned shooter a better shooter. And having patience. You think it is easy to shoot an otter or even the common rat? I really want to see a m43 system shooting that in the wild. That person will command serious respect if he is able to. (At least I know I cannot).
The best way to make a purchase decision is based on making a check list on what is important to you. If you are one who wants the most popular brands, because it makes you look cool, you already have cancelled "lesser brands" and stick to Canikon.
If you are open to all, then your list will look a little like mine :
- Lens quality. Optics is everything to capture light (which is what photography is about).
- Color reproduction and gradualty.
- Shadow details. (Lens and sensor working together).
- Contrast at one time (today it is determined by software).
- Sensor capabilities (that is how Nikon lost me in the early days of digital).
- Ability to capture minute details (today we know it is about the AA glass design).
- Compatibility and future proofing systems. Minolta, Konica, all crashed and burn... Panasonic simply have no loyalty to their customers, so that is out. Canon and Nikon confuse the hell out of me with their variation.
- Weather proofing and build quality (body and lens). Fragile equipment simply don't make the cut.
(No surprise ALL medium format cameras fulfill the above requirements).
Noise, ISO performance is not in my list. Anyone who understands basic physics will know what you are dealing with. Neither is Dynamic Range though it has to be within reasonable range and today's cameras can deliver that.
Why the three points are never an issue? Because there is software to correct these things and I am too big a photographer to let a camera tell me what it wants to do for me. I am in control, not the camera. Realised what is the highest ISO setting on cameras that can buy cars? There is a reason behind it.
DR is not important because I have shot slides so any digital camera today is already a blessing.
And back to this m43 thing. Look through my list mentioned above and you understand why Pen is a serious photographer's pet. Not because I am an Olympus fan. They deliver what I need. Pen is my leisure camera. And my simple video camera replacement. Art Filters provide entertainment and the wows. iBeauty and iEnhance mode allows me to be lazy. That is how I see things.
Last edited:
microcosm
Senior Member
micro Four Thirds is :
- one up from compact, one down from REAL DSLR.
- the ultimate travel and parents-camera (especially when you are still moving around with a pram and feeding bottles)
- a cheapo video camera (until further advancement in technology where it will replace camcorders)
So one must be an idiot to talk about AF on m43 like it can shoot rats at night in the wild. Don't know what drug you are on, but you better get off it and come back to earth. This is why I am amused at how Samsung is going to market their "fastest AF m43/mirrorless camera" next year... I know I am going to laugh a lot for sure.
PDAF is still three up from CDAF, so those who have used DSLRs, please don't come into this platform with the wrong expectations. You are getting early 90s PDAF performance (think Nikon F801s era). Maybe a little better. Fuji's f100fd focus lock faster at any given day. Even Panny G-series can only stand in the smoke.
Once again, for short and lovely days, I have used ALL of micro Four Thirds cameras to date and made fair judgments on them based on my shooting needs (which might not be yours). I don't need to be nice to Olympus nor any other brands because getting gear is never a problem for me, loans or purchase. Any make, any brands. I just need to justify to myself why I want to spend that much.
We can always agree to disagree, and in that process, I can learn something from your point of view. That is the reason for such threads to exist.
Good day all.
- one up from compact, one down from REAL DSLR.
- the ultimate travel and parents-camera (especially when you are still moving around with a pram and feeding bottles)
- a cheapo video camera (until further advancement in technology where it will replace camcorders)
So one must be an idiot to talk about AF on m43 like it can shoot rats at night in the wild. Don't know what drug you are on, but you better get off it and come back to earth. This is why I am amused at how Samsung is going to market their "fastest AF m43/mirrorless camera" next year... I know I am going to laugh a lot for sure.
PDAF is still three up from CDAF, so those who have used DSLRs, please don't come into this platform with the wrong expectations. You are getting early 90s PDAF performance (think Nikon F801s era). Maybe a little better. Fuji's f100fd focus lock faster at any given day. Even Panny G-series can only stand in the smoke.
Once again, for short and lovely days, I have used ALL of micro Four Thirds cameras to date and made fair judgments on them based on my shooting needs (which might not be yours). I don't need to be nice to Olympus nor any other brands because getting gear is never a problem for me, loans or purchase. Any make, any brands. I just need to justify to myself why I want to spend that much.
We can always agree to disagree, and in that process, I can learn something from your point of view. That is the reason for such threads to exist.
Good day all.
E-P1
ISO 200, f6.3, 1/100s, Natural setting.
GF-1
ISO 200, f5.0, 1/160, Dynamic setting.
The famous Oly blue has my vote
:embrass: paiseh...recount!
confirmed Olympus DSLR users in this thread:
1) drakon09 - none.
2) Oly5050 - EP1
3) headfonz - GF1
uncle tomcat (EP1) and microcosm (don't own any yet) are multi-brand owners...
so among olympus dslr users in this thread...its a tie between the EP1 and GF1
microcosm
Senior Member
HAHAHA... Fonzie, you are so funny! :thumbsup:
This thread is a very good read, very informative. I own Olympus E30 , I am no fanboy as I used Nikon before. I like Olympus for now because they are photographer's camera. Olympus don't care to hoot what Nikon and Canon do but design cameras what they think is right for photography.
As for m4/3 I like both GF1 and EP1/2, they meet an important market that I bought Olympus OM for, good functions and compact for travel (or daily carry). Panasonic has made an impact with their LX3 and G1 that they are getting serious with their camera market. You don't go wrong with either one. The different features of each camera make m4/3 more interesting and cater to a wider market.
We are enjoying a good time and we can expect an even more exciting 2010.
As for m4/3 I like both GF1 and EP1/2, they meet an important market that I bought Olympus OM for, good functions and compact for travel (or daily carry). Panasonic has made an impact with their LX3 and G1 that they are getting serious with their camera market. You don't go wrong with either one. The different features of each camera make m4/3 more interesting and cater to a wider market.
We are enjoying a good time and we can expect an even more exciting 2010.
Care to explain more about the shutter speed thingy. Shutter speed is the normal value for all cameras. It's just how long the shutter is going to be open. How different can that get?
Errr.....Then they might have just bought the GF1 in the first place right. :bsmilie:
Maybe you didn't get the reason behind this thread.
We are not talking about cameras that are full fledged DSLRs or have differences world's apart.
We are talking about cameras so similar. Thus i would want to know why you bought either one of the camera. Doesn't matter if you had compared the PEN over the GF1 or the GF1 over the PEN1. Maybe someone never even considered the PEN in the first place. He/she just went out to get the GF1. I just asking why they chose the camera.
You can always base the comparision over so many other models. Maybe why the GF1 instead of the GH1 or the Canon 500D or the Nikon 5000D.
Your rationale is just biased. See the other side of the story.
In conclusion, this is not a brand bashing thread.
But something that is.
Tacky + logical & Useful!
The question was why you chose that camera. Not why you chose either one of the cameras over the other. Read before you comment. See the other side of the picture.
I applaud you for seeing the picture to my question my friend.
My question was never an comparision among the 2 cameras, or infact all the cameras over in the world.
But just why you chose that particular camera.
Maybe someone's justification could be that "Hmm, i bought the GF1 because it takes good pictures comes in a nice red colour"
Simple answer. That's all i'm looking for. Not something that is "Hmm, i bought the GF1 because the PEN was horrible and had lousy pictures"
Maybe it's time people read the question carefully and saw the other side of the picture.
Good answer my friend. Finally an answer that is to the point. No comparsion over brands, but something honest from you.
Thanks! It will help me in making a decision better.
Thank you for your honest reply.
My question was not about comparing, but simply, why you bought that particular camera.
Don't compare. Just tell me what made you feel good about buying that camera.
To be frank, I have Canon DSLR, Pentax SLRS, Yashica SLRS.
Only my dad has an Old Olympus SLR, which i don't use.
Irony, i have no Panasonic or Olympus cameras. But somewhat people make it seemed i'm biased with the brands.
See the other side of the picture.
i flipped the photo on my desk around and saw the other side of the picture...and it says..........
Kodak Royal Paper
ok i don't OT liao :angel: TGIF!
So if you had flipped the other side of a negative roll, would it be "positive" then? :bsmilie:
clubgrit
Senior Member
I don't know how it can help you, they all have their reasons (I for one would not buy based on their reasons) ... and mine will not help you at all. E-P1 was love at first sight for me. Next, is it dslr-quality ? Yes, so buy using my heart than head. Having used many types of cameras, whatever quirks it has will not be a problem. It is just a tool.
I can live with GF1 too, but E-P1 and E-P2 already stole my heart.
On the other hand, this thread may be useful to beginners, but they should only use it as a guide.
.
I can live with GF1 too, but E-P1 and E-P2 already stole my heart
.On the other hand, this thread may be useful to beginners, but they should only use it as a guide.
.
Last edited:
microcosm
Senior Member
Maybe you didn't get the reason behind this thread.
We are not talking about cameras that are full fledged DSLRs or have differences world's apart.
We are talking about cameras so similar. Thus i would want to know why you bought either one of the camera. Doesn't matter if you had compared the PEN over the GF1 or the GF1 over the PEN1. Maybe someone never even considered the PEN in the first place. He/she just went out to get the GF1. I just asking why they chose the camera.
You can always base the comparision over so many other models. Maybe why the GF1 instead of the GH1 or the Canon 500D or the Nikon 5000D.
Your rationale is just biased. See the other side of the story.
In conclusion, this is not a brand bashing thread.
But something that is.
Tacky + logical & Useful!
The question was why you chose that camera. Not why you chose either one of the cameras over the other. Read before you comment. See the other side of the picture.
Actually my friend, it is kinda tough not to make comparisons why I bought one over another. At first I wanted to get a GF1, but till today, I could not find one image that can compel me to buy it. Like might86mare recently (and wittily) said, "a picture says a thousand words" and I have given thousands' worth... yet when I was using the other G-series, I cannot feel but frustrated why the image details are not there, or colors that keep me up all night to fix. Maybe I am just fussy, but then again, it is just me.
Sorry that I have to end up writing mini thesis in your thread. But I do hope I shed some light to those who wants to pick up photography, and even to those few who just want to buy gadgets.
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