What is your stand on reserving seats using using Tissue in the Food Court etc.

[vince123123]

Well a robust rebuttal against the auntie is therefore in order. Don't let bullies bully you around

 

[zoossh]

You can also view the first act as littering, and the second act as picking up litter and disposing it properly.

we obviously know the clean table top with an unopened tissue packet is not littered, if not this thread would not exist. the 2nd person who push the tissue away or hide it obviously do not intend to clear a litter. i think there is more of a frustration and anger rather than in a considerate mindset, for in a busy and crowded situation where time is limited, how many would actually take the tissue paper to throw it away properly in the bin, even though it is being claimed here.

if one really wants to pick up litter and dispose of it properly, then does anyone here help to clear and keep the dishes and cups of the preceding guy eating there, along with one's own? i really doubt anyone here does that, for i wouldn't myself, and for most places have cleaners to clear the stuff too. and how about seeing stray rubbish next to a bin while one's throw another rubbish, how many would bend down and pick up the stray rubbish, along with his own? i do that quite often, but i dun expect many others to do that. however, if one who does nothing of the two above examples, it is pretty obvious that he would not clear the tissue paper packet for the reason of seeing it a litter and disposing it. the only reason of clearing it, be it pushing aside, hiding it on the chair, pushing it off onto the floor, or really throwing it in a bin, or even walking to the bin faraway to throw it (unlikely), is most probably only wanting to take the seat.

i dun see the point of saying one can view so and so when one obviously thinks otherwise.

 

[zoossh]

Well, the anonymity of it all permits us to dispose the stuff.

so if you see a bag in a classroom, and u dunno who it belongs to, does that anonymity allows you to dispose the bag at your wish? a lot of things that lies around are anonymous in such a manner. the only line of difference, is between those we know obviously belong to someone whom we dunno, and those that is probably unwanted and we also dunno who left it around. in this situation, we all know it is the former.

 

[zoossh]

As argued previously, if the owners fully expect the tissue NOT to disappear, they would leave their bags etc to book the seat, instead of leaving a tissue paper. By leaving a low item of value, they fully expect and forsee that it is likely that it will not be there when they return.

If they have so much faith in their tissue system, then use something more substantial to back up their claims.

i think you can correctly argue that leaving a small packet of tissue paper around is inappropriate as it can be easily taken away. similarly if one leaves a diamond ring or a watch around... these are different from leaving a bag or a pram around.

however, it is obviously not an act of littering. it is not obvious to a foreigner who does not know of the local culture, but it is obvious to someone who KNOWS but DISAGREE. i know you disagree with that practice, it is fine. but to start labelling it as something we all know it clearly just to make it ugly is quite absurd.

you and i know that the person who leave the tissue paper around have no intent of littering, if not there will not be the thread of this title of "reserving seats", and it is obvious that you have read through the thread and have expected intelligence and language ability to be aware of the contents of the thread which is the practice exist of using tissue paper packets to reserve seat and not the practice of littering. it became the issue of not whether they are really littering, or whether intend to littering, or whether we think they are littering, becos the answer is pretty clearcut after so many pages. it is the issue of what you wanted them to be appeared to be doing.

if it is a law court, i would understand that any arguments would be resorted to. but since it is not, why not we just talk sense? just pure common sense, and not those long references you have brought in. we are not going to stab each other and get into fight or anything. if we see each other with a good photograph, we will still praise each other. if there is some good insights, regardless of which side, i think it is good to share. but i think this labelling of littering is getting quite out of context, and is bordering on getting too sentimental and heated.

 

[zoossh]

this looks like 1 of the challenges an increase in population has contributed. challenge the right to a seat! :bsmilie:

its just 1 of the stress brought on. there has been a string of rants lately, in S'pore on the whole.

in a bigger perspective, it can be fighting over a carpark lot or something of similar nature.

 

[zoossh]

Maybe you didn't consider 1 thing. The wait for food and queueing during lunch time in town is about 15-20 mins. The faster eater will have to finish his food 15 mins faster than his friend.

As I said, it will work only if anyone in the group helped the one waiting at the table ordered his food. Else, no matter what, the person waiting at the table will have to eat very fast or the rest of the group will have to wait for him. This is inefficient as others cannot use these seats.

Last hotter is what kind of food? Maybe all order cold dish. No problem. Not sure how your group operate but my group don't normally decide what to eat until we reached the foodcourt.

A better solution is to eat at resturant. No need to leave the table to order food. But more expensive

On the contrary, this tissue paper or person chopping place is very inefficient. Some one could have use the table/seat to finish his meal during the time when tissue or person is tanking up the place without using it for "eating".

i think i appreciate your stance, for there is some sense in it. for the arguments against this practice, i think this is probably valid.

 

[zcf]

will this help to change?

http://www.straitstimes.com/Singapore/Story/STIStory_300369.html
Seat taken? Tissue can't be an issue
Group hands out 1,000 tissue packs in bid to wipe out practice By Kimberly Spykerman

THEY are a common sight in crowded hawker centres: a pack of tissues plonked down at an empty spot which practically screams 'Find another seat!'

But a group of undergraduates is on the warpath to wipe out this informal reservation system.
Last Saturday, seven students doled out 1,000 packets of tissue paper in the Chinatown Complex food centre. They were scrawled with the words: 'This seat is not taken, it's yours!'
The students are hoping to encourage patrons to tell others that the seat is occupied, rather than have diners face the tissues.
'We chose to target this aspect of social behaviour because our surveys showed it's a bugbear for a lot of people. Many gripe about the issue but no one takes an active stand,' said team member, 21-year- old V.Kumar.
The Singapore Kindness Movement (SKM), which aims to encourage Singaporeans to be more gracious through simple acts of kindness, has thrown its weight behind the group, named the Tissue Parody.
What started out as a classroom project has now become a full- fledged cause.
The group plans to push the initiative into eateries in the Central Business District, where the tissue reservations, known as 'chope-ing', are rife.
But it was not all smooth-sailing for the freshmen at the Singapore Management University.
The group approached at least three food centres before getting the go-ahead from the one at Chinatown Complex, which is run by the Jalan Besar Town Council.
Mr Kumar said his group was not against reserving seats at food centres. Rather, they wanted to encourage people to find a more gracious method.
The SKM paid for 10,000 tissue packets and loaned out its mascot, Singa the courtesy lion, last week.
'We want to help them because it's obvious that they're passionate and committed to long-term change,' a spokesman said. 'What they're trying to do is not something that can be achieved overnight.'
Last Saturday, the students put tissue packs on empty tables at the Chinatown food centre, located in Smith Street.
Diners, for the most part, welcomed the effort.
Mr Chan Cher Hua, a 30-year- old sales engineer, was glad to see the group being proactive about such a cause. He said: 'It just seems nicer to leave a person at the table rather than a tissue packet. It's about having the right social etiquette.'
The mass distribution of tissue packets piqued the curiosity of the lunch-time crowd.
Mr Wong Ah Chye, 62, chairman of the food centre, also lauded the students. 'It's for the good of the public. People get frustrated when they come to a food centre and the seats are all reserved by tissue packets. Hopefully, this will encourage people to be more thoughtful about others.' kimspyke@sph.com.sg

 

[Yappy]

When you are alone.... you can try. But if people remove the tissue and throw it away?

 

[happyshot]

first time i saw a packet of tissue, my thoughts were this,
someone simply left it behind.
you have to understand, for some people, we eat, then we talk. so when i saw it, it was natural to think people ate, the cleaner cleaned up as they always do, but the "eaters" remained to talk business or whatever. the first time i saw it was in a mall food court. i simply pushed it aside thinking someone left it behind.

personally, i think there are better ways to reserve a seat instead of leaving something that people may regard as rubbish. I bet if reserving a table meant leaving a 100 dollar bill instead of tissue paper you'd find another way to let someone know the table is reserved. who knows, maybe that other way you'd discover to reserve a seat is to simply ask the person next to kindly reserve the seat while you go and order. oh my, a new concept, talking to people.

as always, keep smiling

 

[knight chemistry]

i think it is a lot more efficient for everyone to drop the business of chopping a seat with a stupid tissue paper. This practice was obviously started by some Aunty, or low-level female clerk , generally from a less priviledge upbringing family, more of HDB background, and with none or little international exposure. The practice is ugly, it brings out the cheap, rude, chopping style, the greedy and underdeveloped nation image of a person. It reflects the lack of respect of fellow users of the eating place, so aloof in mannerism, and manifested the lowest form of human dignity in a modern way.
It is very urgly to see often people, especially foreigners, more cultured people, more so gentlemen of higher social standing, walking around with a food tray in hand, looking for an empty seat to consume his food, whilst noticing so many empty seats being occupied by tissue papers.
I think at best, the tissue papers can only be taken as an indication of a wish to use the seat. It cannot be looked at as a definitive reservation. So, if anyone else decides not to grant the wish but to make himself to stomp on the seat, it is perfectly okay for me...especially if that guy is holding a food tray and there are no other seats available.
So, if you want to chope the seat with a tissue paper, you must be prepared to quietly pick up the tissue paper and walk away without a sound should another person takes up the seat. Getting into an arguement to claim the seat would be damn rude, stupid, and ungracious. And honestly, i dont think a gentleman will engage in an arguement to claim a seat if he had earlier tried to chope the place with a tissue paper,,, it is often the "aunty" category of female office workers,,, who are always standing ready to guard and defend their perceived rights....
I think all food eateries operator can ask the cleaners to clear away all the tissue papers when cleaning the tables.
I have been to many countries in the world,,, and only in Singapore, we have this most ungracious , ugly practice. And some people are now calling it a rule,,, my foot.
It is even spreading to fast food chain,, and out to suburbs,, and HDB shopping centres.

Similarly, an ugly practice is the taking of lifts from mid floor to upper floor first before descending to ground floor during lunch time break.
This practice is also reflecting an ungracious image of Singporean.

Please ,, dont say this is uniquely Singapore... it is an ugly face of Singaporean,

 

[knight chemistry]

i think it is a lot more efficient for everyone to drop the business of chopping a seat with a stupid tissue paper. This practice was obviously started by some Aunty, or low-level female clerk , generally from a less priviledge upbringing family, more of HDB background, and with none or little international exposure. The practice is ugly, it brings out the cheap, rude, chopping style, the greedy and underdeveloped nation image of a person. It reflects the lack of respect of fellow users of the eating place, so aloof in mannerism, and manifested the lowest form of human dignity in a modern way.
It is very urgly to see often people, especially foreigners, more cultured people, more so gentlemen of higher social standing, walking around with a food tray in hand, looking for an empty seat to consume his food, whilst noticing so many empty seats being occupied by tissue papers.
I think at best, the tissue papers can only be taken as an indication of a wish to use the seat. It cannot be looked at as a definitive reservation. So, if anyone else decides not to grant the wish but to make himself to stomp on the seat, it is perfectly okay for me...especially if that guy is holding a food tray and there are no other seats available.
So, if you want to chope the seat with a tissue paper, you must be prepared to quietly pick up the tissue paper and walk away without a sound should another person takes up the seat. Getting into an arguement to claim the seat would be damn rude, stupid, and ungracious. And honestly, i dont think a gentleman will engage in an arguement to claim a seat if he had earlier tried to chope the place with a tissue paper,,, it is often the "aunty" category of female office workers,,, who are always standing ready to guard and defend their perceived rights....
I think all food eateries operator can ask the cleaners to clear away all the tissue papers when cleaning the tables.
I have been to many countries in the world,,, and only in Singapore, we have this most ungracious , ugly practice. And some people are now calling it a rule,,, my foot.
It is even spreading to fast food chain,, and out to suburbs,, and HDB shopping centres.

Similarly, an ugly practice is the taking of lifts from mid floor to upper floor first before descending to ground floor during lunch time break.
This practice is also reflecting an ungracious image of Singporean.

Please ,, dont say this is uniquely Singapore... it is an ugly face of Singaporean,

 

[aeskywan]

i think it is a lot more efficient for everyone to drop the business of chopping a seat with a stupid tissue paper. This practice was obviously started by some Aunty, or low-level female clerk , generally from a less priviledge upbringing family, more of HDB background, and with none or little international exposure. The practice is ugly, it brings out the cheap, rude, chopping style, the greedy and underdeveloped nation image of a person. It reflects the lack of respect of fellow users of the eating place, so aloof in mannerism, and manifested the lowest form of human dignity in a modern way.
It is very urgly to see often people, especially foreigners, more cultured people, more so gentlemen of higher social standing, walking around with a food tray in hand, looking for an empty seat to consume his food, whilst noticing so many empty seats being occupied by tissue papers.
I think at best, the tissue papers can only be taken as an indication of a wish to use the seat. It cannot be looked at as a definitive reservation. So, if anyone else decides not to grant the wish but to make himself to stomp on the seat, it is perfectly okay for me...especially if that guy is holding a food tray and there are no other seats available.
So, if you want to chope the seat with a tissue paper, you must be prepared to quietly pick up the tissue paper and walk away without a sound should another person takes up the seat. Getting into an arguement to claim the seat would be damn rude, stupid, and ungracious. And honestly, i dont think a gentleman will engage in an arguement to claim a seat if he had earlier tried to chope the place with a tissue paper,,, it is often the "aunty" category of female office workers,,, who are always standing ready to guard and defend their perceived rights....
I think all food eateries operator can ask the cleaners to clear away all the tissue papers when cleaning the tables.
I have been to many countries in the world,,, and only in Singapore, we have this most ungracious , ugly practice. And some people are now calling it a rule,,, my foot.
It is even spreading to fast food chain,, and out to suburbs,, and HDB shopping centres.

Similarly, an ugly practice is the taking of lifts from mid floor to upper floor first before descending to ground floor during lunch time break.
This practice is also reflecting an ungracious image of Singporean.

Please ,, dont say this is uniquely Singapore... it is an ugly face of Singaporean,

MMMM are those facts? or are they your assumption as in the it was a LOW level auntie that started it? And did you read the Sunday times where all working professionals supported this way of reserving tables? Well are they low level then? As they include top management and also expats.

 

[happyshot]

"And did you read the Sunday times where all working professionals supported this way of reserving tables? Well are they low level then? As they include top management and also expats."

you cannot believe everything you read. i am a journalist and i can tell you right now many journalists fabricate names and quotes in a story.

"Mr. John Barry, financial manager says, "When I first came to Singapore I did not understand this practice. However, I found it to be such an efficient way to reserve a table in busy eateries I soon learned from the locals and adopted this practice. It's just one more of those wonderful cultural blends of ways to communicate in a diverse society and it's one of the many things that makes Singapore such a unique and great place to live in."

if i wrote this and gave you this quote, how will you verify it? would the editor even care to verify this? did this story make you as a singaporean feel good about yourself, about your country?

or, what if i wrote
Steven Tan, banker, says, "I don't know why we as Singaporeans revert to doing things in primitive ways. We must learn to talk to one another, we must learn to enjoy life and not be so kiasu about taking this and taking that and trying to get ahead of the next guy. If we simply say hello to each other, and ask a person if he can hold a seat while I order, then we can move away from an old custom that has no place anymore in our vibrant city. We must remember, we are a first world country and global city now and we have an image we'd like to show the world. Besides, all we are doing is asking for an argument if someone takes the seat so why make the day harder, simply ask someone to hold a seat. It's the more civil thing to do."

if i wrote this and gave you this quote, how will you verify it? would the editor even care to verify this? did this story make you as a singaporean feel good about yourself, about your country?

like i said, working in the industry, please please please, you cannot believe everything you read. one quote says it is ok and even expats do it. the other quote says a local, a successful singaporean basically is saying if you want to get or improve yourself or the country, then some things must change. if you read one or both quotes in the paper, how would ever know either is the truth or if it came from a journalist who sat behind a desk and made it up?

as always, keep smiling

 

[aeskywan]

"And did you read the Sunday times where all working professionals supported this way of reserving tables? Well are they low level then? As they include top management and also expats."

you cannot believe everything you read. i am a journalist and i can tell you right now many journalists fabricate names and quotes in a story.

"Mr. John Barry, financial manager says, "When I first came to Singapore I did not understand this practice. However, I found it to be such an efficient way to reserve a table in busy eateries I soon learned from the locals and adopted this practice. It's just one more of those wonderful cultural blends of ways to communicate in a diverse society and it's one of the many things that makes Singapore such a unique and great place to live in."

if i wrote this and gave you this quote, how will you verify it? would the editor even care to verify this? did this story make you as a singaporean feel good about yourself, about your country?

or, what if i wrote
Steven Tan, banker, says, "I don't know why we as Singaporeans revert to doing things in primitive ways. We must learn to talk to one another, we must learn to enjoy life and not be so kiasu about taking this and taking that and trying to get ahead of the next guy. If we simply say hello to each other, and ask a person if he can hold a seat while I order, then we can move away from an old custom that has no place anymore in our vibrant city. We must remember, we are a first world country and global city now and we have an image we'd like to show the world. Besides, all we are doing is asking for an argument if someone takes the seat so why make the day harder, simply ask someone to hold a seat. It's the more civil thing to do."

if i wrote this and gave you this quote, how will you verify it? would the editor even care to verify this? did this story make you as a singaporean feel good about yourself, about your country?

like i said, working in the industry, please please please, you cannot believe everything you read. one quote says it is ok and even expats do it. the other quote says a local, a successful singaporean basically is saying if you want to get or improve yourself or the country, then some things must change. if you read one or both quotes in the paper, how would ever know either is the truth or if it came from a journalist who sat behind a desk and made it up?

as always, keep smiling

Are you questioning our newspapers integrity? Like wise I ask you to give us facts. Like perhaps who are you working for, for a start. If not the long speech you just said are but just another myth with no facts to substantiate it. After all how do we verify your claims?

 

[happyshot]

for opinionated articles, yes, journalists sometimes do call a friend, get his opinion, and give him an alias. i'm not saying this is what happened, i can't prove it one way or the other, but what i did was to show you how it could have easily been swung the other way and you would not have known any better. which is why i say you cannot always believe what you read because these things happen and we all need to be the wiser to see two sides, not just one.

if i told an american obama did not support funding of new body armour, the opinion might be obama does not support the troops. however, if i reported obama voted against funding for body armour because attached to it was the legalization of abortion, now we have an entirely different story. one reporter might report one way, another reporter might report another way, while another still might choose to report both sides.

you ask me if i am questioning the integrity of the paper?

what i wrote is fictitious to prove to you that if i wrote those quotes in a paper, how would you ever verify it? and even if you did verify it, what did that prove when you know that this journalist, or another journalist could have easily found managers both local and expats who disagree with chopping seats so what is your point ??? so now, am i questioning the journalists integrity, no, I am really questioning your ability to see two sides. and that is exactly why i gave different examples as to how it could have played out.

if i were the reporter of the story and you called me and told me you would like to speak to mr. john barry who i got the quote from, if i told you i do not have his contact, or if i told you we do not give out particulars from a source, what are you going to do my friend?


So, back to the topic.

as always, keep smiling

 

[Daedalus Trent]

yea, get what you mean

practising a certain degree skepticism is healthy :think:

 

[knight chemistry]

What do you mean there is no right or wrong????
Can i put a tissue paper on the chair in a park like Botanic garden and chope the place from day 1 of the year for 365 days of the whole year?
or maybe this practice can be extended to other public places like theatres and cinemas, conference halls, seats in botanic gardens, reservoirs, lovers parks, forming queues when buying properties etc,,, or even in parliaments , when MPs can also use tissue papers to chope their seats before commencement of paliamentary sessions...

Does it not sound really ridiculous?? when tissue papers will rule the nation this way??

 

[knight chemistry]

If i were you ,,, i give her a monkey face smile...and ask the aunty if she owns the seat, or tell her you had booked the seat since yesterday,,,

 

[knight chemistry]

This is reflective of the hardcore, nasty, quarrelsome, self opininated, urgly Singaporean i am talking about...
When a jounalist tells you what goes on in journalism, who are you to say he is wrong??
Who are you to question if he is casting doubt on the integrity of journalism?
Why do you need him to identify himself , so he be victimised and punished by his boss??
Please grow up....

 

[knight chemistry]

Please dont be stupid and help to promulgate the growth of such ugly singaporean practice. Foreigners will laugh at us for being lacking in culture and finesse.
So, you can help by just stomping yourself on any of such seat and proceed to consume your food in a more befitting manner. A gentleman like you should not be abused by another ugly singaporean's stupid parctice.