What culture is it here??!!

[Silence Sky]

Reading the TS first post and post#278 ,has the TS change his stands a little already?

Hello my dearest fellow CSers


Firstly, I've noticed that there are those "self appointed professional critique", who does not post any photos taken by them at all...I mean, c'mon, let's be fair and put at least one, its not too much to ask right? Its to give the guy/gal being criticised, a chance to verify the qualification of the criticizer. Its always easy to comment and give ideas etc.... when one can't produce what one propose, its unfair to the guy who spend hard work and time posting up, being open and got disappointing critiques by these group of people.

Secondly, there are those who make short and cutting remarks, and when questioned upon for more details, they are no where to be seen...GONE!! It's quite remarkable and unbelievable. And you can see them hopping from one thread to another, obviously ignoring any further questioning.... cyber arsonist

ok ok ... now we can get back to the original question ...

critics, do they need to show their work to demonstrate they are average, ok, good, great or master photographers?

I then ask a follow on question, should they do it at all?

Again, my answer is no and no.

I feel that they don't need to , but it would be helpful to have though, its additional information provided, not a necessity. So , no and if you wanna.

 

[Silence Sky]

Why are we seeking critiques/opinions for our pictures?
When we make a photo, it is suppose to be in our liking or taste. Asking others photographers for comments, it is almost certain we will receive opposing views from them simply because they have their own styles and tastes which are different from our own. Is it we are seeking critiques to improve or to acquire techniques so that we can make pictures that appeal to the mass? In this sense ,will we end up as another clone photographer?

Therefore my Questions:
Why are we seeking critiques/opinions for our pictures?
What are good critiques, and how do I identify the genuine from the fake?

My personal view:
A good critique is one that makes me realise my own mistakes when I think the picture I make is already good. It also stirs the creativity bits in you and leads you to create your own style eventually.

It is my own duty to identify these points, I do not require the critiques giver to show me his/her qualification or prove his/her merit.

I also feel that, asking for qualification is akin to saying, I cannot accept someone supposing of lower standard to show me the path to achieve divine enlightenment.

 

[Enchanted]

In God we trust, but the rest -- Papers, Portfolio or Cash !! :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

That's still my stand :thumbsup:

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[Deadpoet]

In God we trust, but the rest -- Papers, Portfolio or Cash !! :bsmilie: :bsmilie:

That's still my stand :thumbsup:

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spoken like a true businessman

 

[garou12]

spoken like a true businessman

no spoken like a true singaporean. :bsmilie:

 

[vince123123]

Well he's conveniently ignoring our points.

I'll take it that he's still choosing to be entrenched in his POV then notwithstanding the robust rebuttals made. That's quite sad given the elitism but at least its enlightening to note that he's one of the few professionals who love to wave qualifications around.

Thankfully not all professionals are liek this Maybe as you said, he is a businessman, everything done is to promote business and that professionals are superior to hobbyists.

spoken like a true businessman

 

[Deadpoet]

Before we get to who can, should or is qualified to give critiques, we actually have to ask one questions of ourselves.

Why are we seeking, accepting and soliciting critiques? I am pretty sure, the majority here will have a similar answer, to improve.

If we can agree on that one point, to improve, then good critiques are those that will help us to improve. At the end of the day, it is the critique that counts, not the critic, as long as the critique helps us to improve.

Why do we care if the critic has the right education, training and certificates? Why do we care if the critic has produce a body of work to demonstrate that he/she can produce such body of works? And why do we care if the critic earns a living or even makes lots of money from his work?

What is important is the critique helps us along. I am not saying comments from any Tom, Dick or Harry will be useful, but in the same note, comments from a master may be just that, nothing of note, nothing helpful.

We should pay attention of the critique, and not the critic.

All said, there is a common trap. If the critic has built a name for himself/herself, we frequent will defer to him/her, and take his/hers words for granted. This is very dangerous and counter productive!

 

[Enchanted]

Before we get to who can, should or is qualified to give critiques, we actually have to ask one questions of ourselves.

Why are we seeking, accepting and soliciting critiques? I am pretty sure, the majority here will have a similar answer, to improve.

If we can agree on that one point, to improve, then good critiques are those that will help us to improve. At the end of the day, it is the critique that counts, not the critic, as long as the critique helps us to improve.

Why do we care if the critic has the right education, training and certificates? Why do we care if the critic has produce a body of work to demonstrate that he/she can produce such body of works? And why do we care if the critic earns a living or even makes lots of money from his work?

What is important is the critique helps us along. I am not saying comments from any Tom, Dick or Harry will be useful, but in the same note, comments from a master may be just that, nothing of note, nothing helpful.

We should pay attention of the critique, and not the critic.

All said, there is a common trap. If the critic has built a name for himself/herself, we frequent will defer to him/her, and take his/hers words for granted. This is very dangerous and counter productive!

Yes, your rationale here is sound. I agreed.

 

[vince123123]

Finally, a 180 degree reversal.

 

[Enchanted]

The crux of my sole believe is still the tangibles -- Portfolio.

Buttomline is :
There are under certain ground of exemption, where if the Critique Givers, without the tangibles, but over-time, proven in his "Critiques" given is helpful and beneficial to the Receivers and community at large, then his Standing and Credibility will increased, without the necessary tangibles said.

However, in the fast-paced world, and when Judgment is based on a few seconds, you can't deny that "The Tangibles" are the best way to used as a quick and good references.
And proving someone who is credible, or even honest in his giving, takes time and careful discerning.



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[garou12]

The crux of my sole believe is still the tangibles -- Portfolio.

Buttomline is :
There are under certain ground of exemption, where if the Critique Givers, without the tangibles, but over-time, proven in his "Critiques" given is helpful and beneficial to the Receivers and community at large, then his Standing and Credibility will increased, without the necessary tangibles said.

However, in the fast-paced world, and when Judgment is based on a few seconds, you can't deny that "The Tangibles" are the best way to used as a quick and good references.
And proving someone who is credible, or even honest in his giving, takes time and careful discerning.



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reading your responses has made me wonder: How far would you go to please a paying client if they do not like the your shots you've produced (note if reshooting is not an option in this scenario).

 

[Enchanted]

reading your responses has made me wonder: How far would you go to please a paying client if they do not like the your shots you've produced (note if reshooting is not an option in this scenario).

I don't really understands your question.

If a Clients Don't Like the Shots i have produced, then why in the First place he had have commissioned myself to do the job ?? ...

Or if a potential Clients mentioned that he dislike my shots, yet he still decides to use my services, then i would like to Check with my accountant whether his Money is worth my time ... :devil: :bsmilie:

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[garou12]

I don't really understands your question.

If a Clients Don't Like the Shots i have produced, then why in the First place he had have commissioned myself to do the job ?? ...

Or if a potential Clients mentioned that he dislike my shots, yet he still decides to use my services, then i would like to Check with my accountant whether his Money is worth my time ... :devil: :bsmilie:

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What i mean let's say you were hired to do a shoot for client X who's paying you good $. When the shots start coming in for review he's not satisfied with what you've done. What would you do then to try to satisfy him? and in this scenario he's refusing to let you do a reshoot. So you can only work with that you already have.

 

[Enchanted]

What i mean let's say you were hired to do a shoot for client X who's paying you good $. When the shots start coming in for review he's not satisfied with what you've done. What would you do then to try to satisfy him? and in this scenario he's refusing to let you do a reshoot. So you can only work with that you already have.

In a commercial works, normally, a concept or visual is communicated and approved.

If the delivery didn't get closed to it, a re-proposal is to be work-out.
But if that is not possible, then You can kiss that Client Goodbye ! :bsmilie:

Like in any long-term working relationship, it's about give and take.

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[garou12]

In a commercial works, normally, a concept or visual is communicated and approved.

If the delivery didn't get closed to it, a re-proposal is to be work-out.
But if that is not possible, then You can kiss that Client Goodbye ! :bsmilie:

Like in any long-term working relationship, it's about give and take.

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yeap i know that. that's why i asked how far would you go to please that client since $ is what matters to you. but your answer's satisfactory so no need to continue the discussion on that matter

 

[vince123123]

Can I summarise to say that it is now your position that being a professional photographer is no longer a required status before critiques can be given.

It is now your position that possession of a good portfolio or a good track record of good critiques is necessary before his critique would be deemed worthy.

Do note Deadpoet's comment here:

"All said, there is a common trap. If the critic has built a name for himself/herself, we frequent will defer to him/her, and take his/hers words for granted. This is very dangerous and counter productive!"

The crux of my sole believe is still the tangibles -- Portfolio.

Buttomline is :
There are under certain ground of exemption, where if the Critique Givers, without the tangibles, but over-time, proven in his "Critiques" given is helpful and beneficial to the Receivers and community at large, then his Standing and Credibility will increased, without the necessary tangibles said.

However, in the fast-paced world, and when Judgment is based on a few seconds, you can't deny that "The Tangibles" are the best way to used as a quick and good references.
And proving someone who is credible, or even honest in his giving, takes time and careful discerning.



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[nikontiger]

Reading the TS first post and post#278 ,has the TS change his stands a little already?

No, I have not changed my stance, just finetuned a little to avoid causing any more furore over this trivia matter. This is CS, so I respect what goes on here according to the general public lah, but if this is brought somewhere else, I can surely see a possible opposing view to your ideas in those sites.

Bottomline : I have not changed my stance, but out of respect for other users, I have adjusted my answer a little bit.

 

[vince123123]

So you're saying that initially you said "A" and you are also of the view that "A" is correct, but right now you are just saying "B" even though your stand is still A, because saying "A" will cause a lot of furore and therefore in order to not give respect to other users and not to further offend them, you decided to say "B" even though you feel "A".

I'm not too sure why we are talking about bringing this somewhere else or seeing a opposing view somewhere else. Are you trying to validate your position of A in this community by bringing in other people from another community who endorse your idea of "A"?

No, I have not changed my stance, just finetuned a little to avoid causing any more furore over this trivia matter. This is CS, so I respect what goes on here according to the general public lah, but if this is brought somewhere else, I can surely see a possible opposing view to your ideas in those sites.

Bottomline : I have not changed my stance, but out of respect for other users, I have adjusted my answer a little bit.

 

[garou12]

No, I have not changed my stance, just finetuned a little to avoid causing any more furore over this trivia matter. This is CS, so I respect what goes on here according to the general public lah, but if this is brought somewhere else, I can surely see a possible opposing view to your ideas in those sites.

Bottomline : I have not changed my stance, but out of respect for other users, I have adjusted my answer a little bit.

why don't you show us this place you're talking about so we can see for ourselves?:sweat:

 

[Silence Sky]

No, I have not changed my stance, just finetuned a little to avoid causing any more furore over this trivia matter. This is CS, so I respect what goes on here according to the general public lah, but if this is brought somewhere else, I can surely see a possible opposing view to your ideas in those sites.

Bottomline : I have not changed my stance, but out of respect for other users, I have adjusted my answer a little bit.

I see a little bit of "herd mentality" at play here.

Sure there will be opposing view somewhere else, just as there will be consensus.