VR Usage

[espn]

IGNORING!!! We are trying to understand the technology behind the optics.. and it doesnt have any relevance to being a photographer..

Go shoot... talk less, gadrian :kok: :bsmilie: Anybody there tonight?

 

[gadrian]

Go shoot... talk less, gadrian :kok: :bsmilie: Anybody there tonight?

:flame: espn.. same to you..

 

[Dennis]

OK sound logical and if it is tested than I accept. Still VR technology is elusive to understand it all. I suspect that not all VR are the same. Maybe Nikon will come out with better VR next time and explain it better.

Dennis.. the 24-120 AFS-VR's predecessor has the similar optical design. The flaw is not in the VR.. but in the optical design.. It is a known working fact that at 24mm anthing with an aperture of f/5.6 or bigger (f/4.5 or f/3.5) will produce soft images on the 24-120... recommended aperture is f/8. This problem disappears when the lens passes the 35mm mark.

Sree is right.. and echo's my respond.. by turning off VR.. the VR mech aligns the optics to a neutral position. VR works on responding to motion.. again.. as I mentioned..

"VR works on the number of vibrations per given time frame and the force of the vibrations to come to a central focal point that is considered sharp. Note: Even with VR you can still get a certain level of softness, coz the VR mech is not able to come to an equilibrium. As such is how the active mode works.. it is able to detect vertical vibrations of a moving vehicle.. and thus mainly compensates for horizontal vibrations. the gyroscope mech is able to find a central point of equilibrium"



IGNORING!!! We are trying to understand the technology behind the optics.. and it doesnt have any relevance to being a photographer..

 

[gadrian]

OK sound logical and if it is tested than I accept. Still VR technology is elusive to understand it all. I suspect that not all VR are the same. Maybe Nikon will come out with better VR next time and explain it better.

Yupp it is tested.. I believe the VR mechs in the 24-120 and the 70-200 are very different.. the 24-120's from usage seems to be closer related to the 80-400..

I find the 70-200 VR more hyper sensitive on all 3 axis.. x, y and z..

 

[Dennis]

Yes I agree, I find the 70-200 VR more sensitive too and gives better results.

Yupp it is tested.. I believe the VR mechs in the 24-120 and the 70-200 are very different.. the 24-120's from usage seems to be closer related to the 80-400..

I find the 70-200 VR more hyper sensitive on all 3 axis.. x, y and z..

 

[Watcher]

I find that some assumptions made that are rather "dangerous"

1) IS == VR == OIS == AS. The idea ("to reduce/eliminate camera shake mechanically") is the same but the implementation is different. Besides the issue on patents by the respective companies, if you read the literature by Canon and Nikon, you will know that they are different.

2) all versions of Nikon's VR (I cannot speak for the others) are the same. They are not. Testing by Thom Hogan and Bjørn Rørslett proved otherwise.

If anyone had really bothered to read Martin1023's link to Bjørn Rørslett's review on the 70-200 VR, on page three bottom, he said:

Nikon is ambiguous as to the need for switching VR off when this lens is mounted on a tripod. Their pamphlet can be interpreted to indicate a shaky tripod or head might benefit from having VR switched on in Normal mode.The first VR offering, AF 80-400 mm f/4.5-5.6 Nikkor did not like tripods at all either with or without VR (largely due to its horribly designed tripod mount). The new VR lens behaves differently.

I shot a comprehensive test series to clarify whether VR impacted performance on a tripod. The results indicate that VR should not be put into operation when you deploy the lens on high-quality tripods such as the Sachtler range. A small, but detectable loss of detail resulted with VR in Normal mode, and the degradation of detail increased with the Active VR setting. On the other hand, for less critical use or when more modest tripods are pressed into service, little harm is done if you forget to switch VR off.

majere2sg's link to Thom Hogan's review, near the middle, he said:

Which brings us to VR and tripods. Once again Nikon's manuals seem to be causing some confusion. The manual is explicit: "When the lens is mounted on a tripod, set the vibration reduction ON/OFF switch to OFF." Of course, the next sentence starts the confusion: "However, set the switch to ON when using a tripod without securing the tripod head, or when using a monopod." That still seems pretty clear to me (i.e., if you're panning off a tripod, you might want to turn VR back ON). It's only when you read the other sections of the manual that you start scratching your head. For example, the description of Normal versus Active VR says "In this mode [Active], the lens does not automatically distinguish panning from camera shake." Okay, so if you're panning on a tripod, you should be in Active mode, right? Probably not. You don't want the VR to fight your panning, only to correct the motion in the axis you're not moving."

and

Active VR takes away this automatic panning detection--all four stabilizers are always active. Thus, in Active VR mode, the lens assumes you want to remove all motion. Do you need to put the lens into Active VR mode to remove motion when you're not panning? Not really. Most photographers produce much more up/down motion (due to stabbing at the shutter release) than they do left/right motion. But if you have lots of strong vibrations you need to remove--as you might when shooting from a vehicle with its engine on--set the VR to Active to be sure that nothing is interpreted as a pan.

All these posts when reading two pages will answer all your questions...

Read the reviews by Thom Hogan and Bjørn Rørslett to see the comments on the VR on the 80-400 lens yourself.

 

[gadrian]

Watcher.. field usage has proved quite different for me.. I have used my 70-200 with VR on on my Slik IV Professional, rock solid meant for large format view cams..

AND IT WORKED FINE!!

p.s. Thom and Bjorn may be right.. but they are infallible. Hehe.. also trying to figure out this puzzle is more interesting even though we have read what they said.. I doubt they even really know how VR works..

 

[Tetrode]

Watcher.. field usage has proved quite different for me.. I have used my 70-200 with VR on on my Slik IV Professional, rock solid meant for large format view cams..

AND IT WORKED FINE!!

p.s. Thom and Bjorn may be right.. but they are infallible. Hehe.. also trying to figure out this puzzle is more interesting even though we have read what they said.. I doubt they even really know how VR works..

How VR really works (by Professor Von Blink) :

Vere iz a litol hamster inzide every VR lenz vat runs ze gyroscope und stabilizes ze optiz.

Und you haf to feed diz hamster everyday to enzure dat unt VR vorks properly.

Ze recommended food to givz iz zom kernel of korn und zunflower zeeds.

Oh...zey love zem zunflower zeeds...ze do...ze do.

 

[gadrian]

How VR really works (by Professor Von Blink) :

Vere iz a litol hamster inzide every VR lenz vat runs ze gyroscope und stabilizes ze optiz.

Und you haf to feed diz hamster everyday to enzure dat unt VR vorks properly.

Ze recommended food to givz iz zom kernel of korn und zunflower zeeds.

Oh...zey love zem zunflower zeeds...ze do...ze do.

Encore.. encore.. phhhhhwwwwttt..!!!!

 

[Dennis]

Ha ha ha my hamster must be dead already, never feed them at all. :bsmilie:

How VR really works (by Professor Von Blink) :

Vere iz a litol hamster inzide every VR lenz vat runs ze gyroscope und stabilizes ze optiz.

Und you haf to feed diz hamster everyday to enzure dat unt VR vorks properly.

Ze recommended food to givz iz zom kernel of korn und zunflower zeeds.

Oh...zey love zem zunflower zeeds...ze do...ze do.

 

[Dennis]

Just did a simple test of the 24-120VR, mounted it on a tripot and shoot a sample with and without VR using the remote. The result = cannot tell the difference in term of sharpness but interestingly the frame actually shifted slightly when VR is switch on. Anybody else notice this?. :dunno:

 

[espn]

Nope, have not noticed such a phenomenom on my 24-120VR. Tried long time back taking on tripod w/wo VR on.

 

[Dennis]

Did you get the same sharpness with and without VR on a tripot ?.

Nope, have not noticed such a phenomenom on my 24-120VR. Tried long time back taking on tripod w/wo VR on.

 

[gadrian]

Just did a simple test of the 24-120VR, mounted it on a tripot and shoot a sample with and without VR using the remote. The result = cannot tell the difference in term of sharpness but interestingly the frame actually shifted slightly when VR is switch on. Anybody else notice this?. :dunno:

Dennis.. how about a some test images?

 

[majere2sg]

Since the manual says turn it off when mounted on the tripod, just turn it off. No need to think so much, whats the problem with just flicking a switch and besides since you are using a tripod, why do you want to turn on VR somemore, unless you want to do panning and it might help in someways, I think... :dunno:

 

[Dennis]

No place to put up the image. How about I sent you the image ?. You can evaluate it and help decide.

Dennis.. how about a some test images?

 

[Dennis]

It's for the satisfaction of understanding the working of the VR. I normally don't follow exactly what the manual says but at least I know the next time that if I accidently leave the VR on while using the lens on a tripot I don't have to worry about it.

Since the manual says turn it off when mounted on the tripod, just turn it off. No need to think so much, whats the problem with just flicking a switch and besides since you are using a tripod, why do you want to turn on VR somemore, unless you want to do panning and it might help in someways, I think... :dunno:

 

[gadrian]

Since the manual says turn it off when mounted on the tripod, just turn it off. No need to think so much, whats the problem with just flicking a switch and besides since you are using a tripod, why do you want to turn on VR somemore, unless you want to do panning and it might help in someways, I think... :dunno:

It the manual tells you to stand upside down and then VR works would you do it..

I guess it is human nature to continue to be inquisitive towards things that do not always work the way we are told they would work.. There is no problem in just flicking a switch.. the problem is when you forget to do it.. understanding the underlying mechanics to this technology would then help you to realise.. or understnad if your image making process would be severely hampered.

Btw.. majere2sg.. have you tried out a VR lens..

 

[espn]

Did you get the same sharpness with and without VR on a tripod ?.

Yep, but I was shooting around f/11 and f/16, no noticeable difference, just wanted to be vain and activated the VR on the tripod.

Btw.. majere2sg.. have you tried out a VR lens..

Dude, he's a Canon user... heehee he only has IS

 

[majere2sg]

It the manual tells you to stand upside down and then VR works would you do it..

Unless you are a 3-years old kid, maybe you might do that.
So are you saying that you would rather trust other people words than the manufacturer of the lens who printed the manual. (Now I know which Nikon user doesn't trust Nikon at all ) So Nikon doesn't know their product well enough and they would just anyhow print on their manual ? :dunno: *shruggggggggg*