Untolerable behavior observed at Mandai Orchid Garden

[Fantasymage]

Who fault? NIKON or CANON? or CS photography community?
I believe this people try to get some nice photo and posted to CS..at least have some contribution to CS ma, otherwise no story and thread lo :bsmilie:

 

[kcuf2]

Who fault? NIKON or CANON? or CS photography community?
I believe this people try to get some nice photo and posted to CS..at least have some contribution to CS ma, otherwise no story and thread lo :bsmilie:

I have joined CS mass outings (>40 ppl) before and the ppl in the outing are shooting macros, wildlife, fauna, ppl etc. etc. and none of them are shooting in such aggressive behaviour..

this is the first time in my life i see ppl shooting birds in such manner...

 

[Omega23]

Infact, in many circumstances in Avian photography, flash usage is not needed. I have came across so many cases when using flash is absolutely not needed and these photographers were flashing away at the birds in broad daylight.

Sad to say that those claimed to be the season bird photographers also gunning away with flashes. The only reason that I could think of is they do not have proper basics of photography even after been shooting for many years.:bsmilie:

Whatever was seen in this incident will continue as Singaporean have great purchasing power for big guns and ready to chase for their dream shots at all expense.

from yr reply I believe many here would know how good yr basic is.


We human not only invade other species' space by modern photography equipments, we also did many Other worse things which cause species n species to extinct.

 

[alreadym3]

we can't stop more people to join the shoot right?
if everything has to talk about caring/loving, then why shoot? why must shoot with flash? how to capture good picture? in this world, how to please everyone?

the thread starter was at MOG for what? also photographing right? i dun believe he never use flash for photography. he shoot flower or what? even flower also has life la. he should use common sense before voice out.

why dun he complain National Geography works? didn't they use more than 10 flash at night to capture the bats ???

You seems to be rather offended by the thread starter and the discussion here. By seeing the way you put things across .......

This thread here isn't just about that few shooters act, it's a good example for us to create an awareness or even a self reflect on the way we shoot. Don't need to please everyone if what you do, you believe is right. The ends result will speak for itself.

Be it, Nat Geo or any photojournalism's photos tells a story to create an awareness to the public even to the extend of helping. So what have your's done so far.:think::think:

 

[Old Boy]

Flashing incessantly is not being considerate but without flash under some circumstance, it's impossible to get good shot. I hope we are not getting paranoid over photographers who shoot birds with flash. Many celebrities, models, ministers are under constant and incessant flash from journalist photographers or amateurs :dunno: Let's not brew hatred here. I think the point here is incessant flash and crowding that would damage the bird environment.

 

[sgfreestyler]

we can't stop more people to join the shoot right?
if everything has to talk about caring/loving, then why shoot? why must shoot with flash? how to capture good picture? in this world, how to please everyone?

the thread starter was at MOG for what? also photographing right? i dun believe he never use flash for photography. he shoot flower or what? even flower also has life la. he should use common sense before voice out.

why dun he complain National Geography works? didn't they use more than 10 flash at night to capture the bats ???

you have misunderstand what TS is trying to bring out.

his concern is not abt using FLASH for photography, but is how FLASH IS USED.

we have discussing on how to take photos of wildlife in a more responsible way. as u know if the parent bird sences any danger nearby, they will kill their little birdie. I have encounter this b4, when a nest was built on a plant outside my house. i took my camera near to it to have a shoot, the next day, my dad told me the little birdie is dead, and was found on the floor... i'm responsible for this Tragedy. I nv thought abt it and learn it on the hard way.

 

[KW Phua]

Oh! I use continuos flashes to my children also. Will it harm them. Why the camera and flash manual did not warn us. I notice that if too close to the flash you may feel uncomfortable. As long as sufficient distance it should be ok, I think.
Some how I agree that we should avoid using flash if possible, and give more space and time to the animals.
I am happy to see so many animal lover, I also hope those who love animals minimise eating them.

 

[Vincere]

So are you one of the airheads that i am referring to in the thread? if you are indeed one of them, I hope to meet u one day and let u have a taste of 8fps with my sb800 in your eyes.

if a person really really wanna use flash and if the conditions are really that bad, a few burst is enough. bursting at high speed for a long duration is totally unacceptable, and illogical.

If their skills is really that bad to the extend that they only have 1 keeper in 100 shots, they should just go home and practice shooting cups instead of trying out on living things, more so for baby wildlife that are just the size of one's finger.

at such close distance of 5-6m away, those group of ppl are pointing their flash heads directly at the birds and their nest, and behaving in a trigger happy manner. now that Deswitch has shown the pic of the flash extender, may i also add that one of the guys in the group had used the flash extender too.

and btw, dun go and bring national geographic into the picture. This thread is about wat happened in MOG, dun come into my thread and go off trail and causing my thread to close up.

now you challenge to meet those MOG shooters to let them have a taste of 8fps with your sb800 in their eyes? That day just watch and keep quiet?

many people claimed they are animal lover. but they eat chicken/beef/mutton/sea foods etc. When you enjoying KFC/BBQ fishes/prawns/crabs, do you feel guilty?

if the nest still there, you should able meet those shooters easily. no point to talk without action.

 

[weixing]

Hi,
IMHO, there is nothing wrong with using the flash continuous or not when shooting birds, but IMHO, the main concern in this case is "nest with juvenile birds that still can't fly".

When you shoot birds with or without flash, if the birds don't like it or feel threaten, they'll let you know by just simply flying off.

But in this case, the juvenile birds are still unable to fly off, so unable to escape if they don't like it or feel threaten. The parent birds might still feed the juvenile birds with all these disturbance around the nest because the desire to breed might overcome the fear. As a result, stress might start to build up on both parent birds and the juvenile birds.

If these disturbance carry on without restrain, the parent birds might feel so much stress that it's simply gave up and abandon the nest or the juvenile birds might die of stress.

So if you really want to shoot nesting, try to retrain yourself and shoot with care... keep a good distance away, took the shot quickly and stop shooting once you got your shot... there is no need to took so many shots from the same angle at the same birds and end up with all the images look so identical.

Also, I think sometimes we are so immerse in taking the shot we want that sometime we un-intentionally doing something that we shouldn't do or won't do normally. So IMHO, we should be glad that someone remind us of our behaviour... because if the parent birds abandon the nest or the juvenile birds die of stress, we lost our chance to shoot the birds, the parent birds energy and effort had gone to waste and one less bird for mother nature. :cry:

Anyway, if the birds are there, we can still shoot the birds another day, but if it's gone, it's gone. 留得鸟儿在，那怕没鸟拍。

Just my S$0.02.

Have a nice day.

 

[wheresmycheese]

now you challenge to meet those MOG shooters to let them have a taste of 8fps with your sb800 in their eyes? That day just watch and keep quiet?

many people claimed they are animal lover. but they eat chicken/beef/mutton/sea foods etc. When you enjoying KFC/BBQ fishes/prawns/crabs, do you feel guilty?

if the nest still there, you should able meet those shooters easily. no point to talk without action.

:thumbsd::thumbsd: he was trying to point out smth there is no need for such sarcasm Vincere

 

[alreadym3]

now you challenge to meet those MOG shooters to let them have a taste of 8fps with your sb800 in their eyes? That day just watch and keep quiet?

many people claimed they are animal lover. but they eat chicken/beef/mutton/sea foods etc. When you enjoying KFC/BBQ fishes/prawns/crabs, do you feel guilty?

if the nest still there, you should able meet those shooters easily. no point to talk without action.

No offence, but this is a little OT, some animals are breed and to be meant as food. If till a day they can breed sharks for the mass. The discussion here is about life cycle and human behavior not food cycle.

 

[sgfreestyler]

now you challenge to meet those MOG shooters to let them have a taste of 8fps with your sb800 in their eyes? That day just watch and keep quiet?

many people claimed they are animal lover. but they eat chicken/beef/mutton/sea foods etc. When you enjoying KFC/BBQ fishes/prawns/crabs, do you feel guilty?

if the nest still there, you should able meet those shooters easily. no point to talk without action.

Vincere,

Being an animal lover and a non-vegetarian is 2 diff things. You can't put them together.

For example, a vegetarian told you that he hates dogs and cats. Do you still consider him an animal lover?

Anyway, this thread got nothing to do with eating chicken/beef/mutton/sea foods.

 

[Vincere]

wondering why you guys care so much about shooting a juvenile bird 5 to 6m away in nest?
isn't it very common that we see macro insect shooters shoot at the range of 5cm to 10cm with flash? even at the output ratio of 1/128 can be too extreme for that tiny insect. especially those slow moving insects. you guys never see those photo uploaded at CS of spider/dragonfly/damsel fly, shot with flash reflected on the insect eyes?

if everyone can be so perfect with good heart. then this world has nothing to talk about.

 

[Vincere]

problem is many animals die because you guys keep eating them.
indirectly you are killing the animal. as simple as that.

 

[YEOWMING]

Let's put things into perspective now:

1) First of all, I don't think anyone here wants to hurt a bird or mother nature's work intentionally.

2) It's good that TS brings awareness to condemn such behavior, but if TS really feels so emotionally affected by those birders' behavior, shouldn't he kindly just walked over and tell it the those 3 fellows? Treat the problem at the source at that evidential time?

3) Technically speaking, is it possible to flash at 1/1 power at 8fps? And even if you can, won't it get over-exposed? I don't know, cos I don't have a 8fps machine gun and Quantum.

4) From my understanding, the sunbird nest is located near the entrance of MOG, I would assume that there will be lots of people movement there, why would the bird make a nest at such an exposed place? Too used to human presences? Even if no photographer shoots, bound to have some itchy hand people wanna have a touch and feel.

5) Most of us here do not see the actual behavior on that day, hence, we leave it to our imagination to argue here, the over-imagine ones will feel very strong about it, the under-imagine one will say 'what's the big deal', so I think some misunderstanding arises because of this.

Bottomline, don't fight each other, get your picture right and do the right thing.

 

[YEOWMING]

problem is many animals die because you guys keep eating them.
indirectly you are killing the animal. as simple as that.

I must agree you have a point there,... OMG ! I am a total meat-tarian! Totally no vegi on my menu ! And i love Ayam Penyet! Little chicks somemore!!! I am a sinner!

 

[Vincere]

I must agree you have a point there,... OMG ! I am a total meat-tarian! Totally no vegi on my menu ! And i love Ayam Penyet! Little chicks somemore!!! I am a sinner!

No one is perfect Make an effort don't eat too often.

 

[Fantasymage]

My self was a natural lover and I was shooting bird too.
there is no difference between shooting bird and Make love
ask you guys, can you control your self to blow-off when you fell high???:bsmilie:
for me, I cant really make it lo, because it was simply too exciting, I believe most of us also cant make it agree???
Sometime people will accidentally make a mistake ma:sweat: walao a.. no point keep fighting lo, My Ama alway telling me that we should learn from a mistake but not fighting..no good de ma:angel:

just my US$0.002:sweat:

 

[Garion]

wondering why you guys care so much about shooting a juvenile bird 5 to 6m away in nest?
isn't it very common that we see macro insect shooters shoot at the range of 5cm to 10cm with flash? even at the output ratio of 1/128 can be too extreme for that tiny insect. especially those slow moving insects. you guys never see those photo uploaded at CS of spider/dragonfly/damsel fly, shot with flash reflected on the insect eyes?

if everyone can be so perfect with good heart. then this world has nothing to talk about.

I think you are really missing the point here. You are like comparing apples to oranges. Birds and insects are two wholly different subjects altogether. Just ask those macro shooters, did the insects run away when they were flashed at close range?

The main issue here discussed was the case of nesting bird. As many people here have already commented before, nesting period for birds is probably the most sensitive & stressful time for them. Not just for parent bird but the chick(s) as well. Any disturbance will cause unecessary loss of the chicks due to abandonment of the nest.

Basically speaking, we should just leave the nest and its inhabitants alone.

problem is many animals die because you guys keep eating them.
indirectly you are killing the animal. as simple as that.

Hahah...so what....you expect everyone on this planet to convert to become vegeterians? Please, wake up from your dream world... This is really going OT btw.

 

[chngpe01]

Let's put things into perspective now:

1) First of all, I don't think anyone here wants to hurt a bird or mother nature's work intentionally.

2) It's good that TS brings awareness to condemn such behavior, but if TS really feels so emotionally affected by those birders' behavior, shouldn't he kindly just walked over and tell it the those 3 fellows? Treat the problem at the source at that evidential time?

3) Technically speaking, is it possible to flash at 1/1 power at 8fps? And even if you can, won't it get over-exposed? I don't know, cos I don't have a 8fps machine gun and Quantum.

4) From my understanding, the sunbird nest is located near the entrance of MOG, I would assume that there will be lots of people movement there, why would the bird make a nest at such an exposed place? Too used to human presences? Even if no photographer shoots, bound to have some itchy hand people wanna have a touch and feel.

5) Most of us here do not see the actual behavior on that day, hence, we leave it to our imagination to argue here, the over-imagine ones will feel very strong about it, the under-imagine one will say 'what's the big deal', so I think some misunderstanding arises because of this.

Bottomline, don't fight each other, get your picture right and do the right thing.

I think this subject has been debated thoroughly and I agree with this.

The important lesson here is it is individual responsibility practice and also to help educate the ethics of bird photography. A good example is here (not perfect and some points debatable)http://www.naturephotographers.net/ethics.html, here http://www.digicamhelp.com/how-to/nature/wildlife-photography-ethics/


Most importantly, please remember and take this as a guiding principle:
"The welfare of the subject and habitat are irrefutably more important than the photograph"

With this I shall close this thread and make it a sticky