Unbelievable service at Hans

[evq]

I will definetely move the chairs back if asked nicely but if the consenses is that being shouted at in a rude manner is alright then I really have nothing to say.

if asked nicely , which I pointed out previously, & funksoulava himself has agreed that he will be glad to move back those tables. If I were him, I will even appologise to that waiter for forgetting even though I did not recall promising to do it. Just a way of giving & taking.
It's all abt asking nicely in this World. No matter where u are, try yelling at anyone, see what's the results u will get.
I never rise my voice when I worked in F&B. Why? once u did, customer will have more to complain. Just be firm & smile all the way. Still couldn't solve, request that customer to lodge a complaint to customer service counter/Manager.

Yes, Hans is not a High Class outlet, no service charge etc. But it is still considered under Service Line.
Many argued that he's a senior. Just curious, if that waiter happens to be a young chap?

Those who work in this line should know, 'Customers are always correct', even their demands are nonesense.:bsmilie: I not saying that u must do whatever was told. Just smile & explain nicely why it is out of ur ability. Mostly they will understand.
Rising ur voice is consider rude by some, not to mention Yelling. These are a No-No, no matter what happened.

But to be fair, the PAY in Service line here is really way too low to demand a High Class service.
If waiters(just an example) are paid good enough, they will not wan to jeopardize their career by being rude.

It is good to see how others' views are different. Nice Day.

 

[xxxger]

Is it because that old uncle shout at you, then you feel no face cos everyone are all looking at you? :embrass:
But why uncle want to shout at you?
If you have move back the table and chair to the original place, will you no face ?
...
...

I know liao lar, .... actually is the fault of the chair and table, cos the chair no move back on its own lor ...

 

[funksoulava]

1. would he have moved the tables on his own in Mortons or Les Amis or say if he was travelling in Paris, in a snooty high end French restaurant.

If you have read the posts we were havinga gathering in SIngapore and not Paris.

2. if no, then why do it in Hans and feel entitled to do so.

There was no mention that anyone feeling 'entitled to do so'. The tables were already joined when my wife and I reached there.

3. may be good to check with his group who ate there. Did anyone in the group verbally promise on behalf of the group, to the old waiter that yes, they will move the tables back after eating. If yes, then it is not about whether you are king or not king. It is about honouring one's promise. Do it. (move the tables). Next time talk to the manager and not to the waiter about moving their furniture. The manager may agree and direct the waiter to move the tables for you and back afterwards.

It's not about being 'king' or 'not king'. It's about service staff being rude.

4. I agree that most of the time, it would be wrong for the waiter to shout at restaurant patrons.

Could you enlighten us with a reason what gives a service staff a right to shout at patrons?

5. but he does not care. It is not his restaurant. If people avoid Hans as a result, he does not lose as much as the restaurant owner.

I agree. I could have chose not to call up Han's to report the incident. Let the rude staff antogonise more patrons and in turn, cause Han's to loose lots more customers. By highlighting this to the Han's management they can act to prevent future damage.

6. if you had shouted back and even fiercer, what could have happened? Next time try that just as a psychology test. Will be useful if you are also a 7 Dan Karate expert.

If I'm a trouble maker I would've gladly raised a ruckus and cause him bodily harm, which I didn't. I could also enageg him in a shouting match until his manager come out to do something about it. Guess what? I walked away.

7. it is impossible that a waiter shouts at restaurant patrons and the manager did not notice. A good manager should have intervened immediately. This one was not on the ball.

I really don't know where was the manager. All this happened outside the eatery and it was lunch time so the manager might have been busy inside.

8. there are rare times when restaurant patrons deserve to be shouted at. (OT a bit) Widely reported case in the news. A lady was in Italian restaurant and a group of ang mohs started throwing bread at her. She complained but the lembeh restaurant manager was so afraid of ang mohs that he froze and did not dare to tell them to stop. ( we still got colonial hangups ). So interesting that it ended only when another ang moh restaurant patron got mad and told them to stop. This only happens in civilised Singapore. The group of ang mohs would not dare to try the same in say, ...Afghanistan, Jakarta or Sicily (home of the Sicilian Mafia?). If they pulled that stunt against the local womenfolk in those places, they may be hacked to death on the spot. So sometimes civilised Singapore gets taken advantage of. (end of OT)

The example you gave is very extreme and I don't think happens frequently. I think the reason why so many people commented is because they have experienced different levels of service in Singapore and are relating them.

10. but know this clearly. Restaurant business is a numbers game. They do not give a sh*t about you not patronising them in future. They will be plenty of others who still go there to eat. The only time they care is when you write to the Straits Times and it is read by millions. Because it can hurt their business big time. But be careful what you say and write. They can look for ways to sue you if any careless statements made to the press.

This is the reason why I posted here to seek opinion on whether should I write in the the Straits Times Forum page.

11. Hans expanded rapidly and this may be a franchise. You know, just like Katong Laksa all over the island. Can standards still be high?

Being a franchise does not mean that they can be lax about service. So far, the Ya Kun Kaya Toast outlets I've visited are franchises but they still have decent service.

 

[funksoulava]

if u dont want jeopardise someone's ricebowl, u shouldn't have identified him to the manager. Who knows he might have a family to feed. think about that.

Kiwitan, please refer to this post on page 2:

Anyway, have just spoken with the HR Manager of Han's. Have related the whole incident to him and he offered his appologises on behalf. He also mentioned that they will trace who the staff is and 'will probable counsel him or give him a warning'. He sounded quite sincere so I guess we'll not pursue the matter. Don't want to jeopardise anybody's rice bowl over this incident.

 

[centuryegg]

All the talk about protecting other's ricebowl, be merciful and all.... What I can say from a business point of view, that is an impractical thought! Singapore has no natural resources, one of our main revenues are from the service industry. By being "merciful" to one uncle means killing ourselves. When you condone bad service, visitors will go back and rattle on how service here really sucks.... and that will mean less visitors. Then when our economy goes down, who is going to be merciful to you?

You work in the service industry, you be polite. Customers scream and shout, you smile. Why? because firstly smiling helps defuses the tension, secondly as a service staff, you DO NOT SHOUT at the customer.

 

[Deadpoet]

oh forget ....

Hope that uncle nexttime better work in kopitiam, cos less HIGH CLASS people there :embrass:

I think that 10% service charge does not included to help clear the **** if customer go toilet right?

This has nothing to do with high class low class, it has to do with common courtesy and civility.

I don't give a hoot if the staff is 16 or 60, a staff of a service establishment can NEVER be rude to a customer. How much the staff earns has absolutely no justification to be rude. The staff always has a choice, not to work in a service establishment.

My question to all here in the forum is, do you want to see the service level in Singapore improves? My take from reading your comments is, some do, some don't care, and most others take really never gave it too much thought. Sorry to say, if customers DO NOT demand good service, and willing to pay for the improve service, service standard WILL NEVER improve. Good luck, and I am not holding my breath!

 

[Gymrat76]

IMHO, I think both parties are somewhat to blame: the waiter for shouting and the threadstarter for instigating a 'walk out' after the incident. In hindsight (which is always 20/20, I know), the best thing would have been to move the tables back and then have a word with the manager about the uncle. Then again, I know that in the heat of the moment it isn't always easy to swallow your anger and take the 'proper' way out. See my second example...

However, that said, yes, the level of the service industry in Singapore is appaling. My ang moh friend was the victim of a 'tag team' in Sim Lim in which a salesman quoted a price for a video camera and passed him to another salesman who tried to convince my friend that other brands was better. When my friend insisted on buying the 'lousier' camera the salesman just said "no stock" and proceeded to verbally abuse my friend. This same tactic happened at 2 different shops in Sim Lim.

On the flip side, there are also the waiters at restaurants who 'kow-tow' to foreigners and ignore the locals. I was at a upmarket restaurant/bar in Clark Quay with my friends and got so-so service from the staff all night. When it was time to go, we collectively waved for the bill for at least 5 minutes. We were totally ignored, some waiters saw us then turned away and acted like they didn't see us. When some foreigners in the next table waved for the bill, they came immediately with big smiles and when we asked that waiter politely to bring us our bills as well, he just walked away quickly like as though he didn't hear us.

We got so fed up we walked off. Too bad that they lost that $200+ worth of food and drinks, and that place will from now on be at the bottom of our list. Some shops don't seem to realize that its the REPEAT business and not the once-off business that will make or break them.

 

[adamadam]

I don't see why tables can't be moved.
The guy was probably upset over something else and that just added to it.

As for cleaning up after eating at fast food places, it's something we always do, however, last time I went with someone who worked at one of these places, and he said to leave it there, because he (they) gets paid to clean it.

 

[LittleWolf]

LW, sorry I really should not have singled you out, but you were handy, and i used you as a proxy.

No apology needed, I know how you meant it.

However, that does not make it right for service staff to be rude to the customers.

Of course not, but it happened. Shouting back doesn't make it any better. Sometimes it's better not to insist, even if you're right; there are more civil ways to settle the affair.

I would also point out that we've heard/read only one side's perspective of the incident, which is probably reported in a not very objective way.

One more thing in common, if I was rude to a customer, let's not even get to chouting etc, I would be kicked out so fast I won't even know what hit me.

I would hope that this is not the case. No question, service personnel should not be rude. On the other hand, we all make mistakes. If this is an isolated glitch, I think an employee should be given a chance to correct and improve. Good management will not only care about its customers, but also its employees. This can greatly boost workplace morale, which should result in more dedicated employees and, consequentially, better service.

 

[kahheng]

IMHO, I think both parties are somewhat to blame: the waiter for shouting and the threadstarter for instigating a 'walk out' after the incident. In hindsight (which is always 20/20, I know), the best thing would have been to move the tables back and then have a word with the manager about the uncle. Then again, I know that in the heat of the moment it isn't always easy to swallow your anger and take the 'proper' way out. See my second example...

However, that said, yes, the level of the service industry in Singapore is appaling. My ang moh friend was the victim of a 'tag team' in Sim Lim in which a salesman quoted a price for a video camera and passed him to another salesman who tried to convince my friend that other brands was better. When my friend insisted on buying the 'lousier' camera the salesman just said "no stock" and proceeded to verbally abuse my friend. This same tactic happened at 2 different shops in Sim Lim.

Er, it seems strange to me that you're expecting great service at known 'tourist baiting' places, esp. places with shops often known to play such games with people who don't know any better. (There's only one popular shop that I'd dare bring a friend local or overseas to buy camera/video gear from at SLS - and we all know it's Alan ;-).) I bet if your ang moh peng yew went to Cathay Photo, he won't have encountered such unpleasant treatment.

On the flip side, there are also the waiters at restaurants who 'kow-tow' to foreigners and ignore the locals. I was at a upmarket restaurant/bar in Clark Quay with my friends and got so-so service from the staff all night. When it was time to go, we collectively waved for the bill for at least 5 minutes. We were totally ignored, some waiters saw us then turned away and acted like they didn't see us. When some foreigners in the next table waved for the bill, they came immediately with big smiles and when we asked that waiter politely to bring us our bills as well, he just walked away quickly like as though he didn't hear us.

And which "upmarket" place might this be?

We got so fed up we walked off. Too bad that they lost that $200+ worth of food and drinks, and that place will from now on be at the bottom of our list. Some shops don't seem to realize that its the REPEAT business and not the once-off business that will make or break them.

You mean you eventually walked off without paying?

If you did that, I don't blame you for not wanting to go back. Because if you did, they'd be right to call the cops on you.................. So whether they are now at the bottom of your list is er, quite moot. It's indeed wise of you to keep your business with them once-off since you owe them $200++.

 

[dawgbyte77]

Haha, tell me in Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Australia, u move the tables yrself or u ask the restaurant staffs to move for u?
I have been to all these places except Philippines, and to USA, Canada, Mexico, China, Japan, the whole Europe, thousands of restuarants, dozens of diff cultures, if there is a need for party, someone would call ahead to the restaurant and tell the staff, if it is ok the staff will move the tables before we arrive, if it is not ok then we just eat at different tables of 4, or 8, etc.
It is sometimes amazing to see ppl in Singapore moving tables around as if they own the restaurant, locals and foreigners as well.

I can verify in Philippines its the same... we join tables to group together (or sometimes waiters do it for us). For big restaurant, we may call in and reserve x seats at so-so time... that is okay. But for small restaurants that does not require reservation, we do the same. And honestly, if the waiter is bothered by this, he shud change jobs, ricebowl or not. Its a bit weird to have a friendly gathering and then separate into "cells".

 

[funksoulava]

Huh? Both Clubsnap and the ST forum are publicly accessible web forums. I don't see the difference.

The Straits Times Forum Page is not a web forum.

Well, from what I read in your post is that you were not any better.

'For every action there's a reaction'. Mine was a reaction to his action, just like your reaction by posting after reading what happened.

It would have been the most reasonable thing to do. I'm not sure about "tail between your legs". If your self esteem depends on not pushing tables back, I'm sorry.

Apology accepted.

 

[dawgbyte77]

Its quite sad that this thread has justified being rude because he is old and he may lose his ricebowl or do not expect high quality service unless its an expensive restaurant.

 

[funksoulava]

The uncle have already say someone promised him to shift back the table mah.
How long does it take to confirm that?
It's just a matter of "asking".

If really someone did promise him,can't blame him for raising his voice lor.
I stand by that uncle.

Good for you! I do sincere hope that the very same uncle or one with a similar disposition will be serving you at your next dining experience.

 

[swimcraze]

could the uncle be hard of hearing??? hmmm.... :think:

 

[nuts]

Well, I have some food for thought here.

While I absolutely agree about the service levels and customer rights etc, what I find disturbing is the talk abt courtesy and civility based on role/profession instead of human beings.

Consider 2 persons talking and 1 of them shouted and became rude to the other. Does the other have every right to become rude too? And in doing so, is less wrong than the other?

Now, service staff and customer, and customer shouted at service staff and being generally rude. Yes, utmost service would mean the service staff would be courteous and not respond rudely (and I'll not go into whether should the customer be rude in the 1st place!)

And finally, service staff and customer, and service staff shouting at customer (horrors!). Does the customer then have the right to be rude back?

Strangely, I have a feeling that service staff who exemplify in their services sometimes turn into rude customers themselves when not in their job...

So, does courtesy become a function of a person's profession/role or a trait of human culture?

funksoulava,
I didn't think words like "go report police" is particularly appropriate or polite. Of course, it was less rude than him, but... well, something to think about?

Whatever the case, yeah, haven't been to Hans for a looooong time..

 

[funksoulava]

Is it because that old uncle shout at you, then you feel no face cos everyone are all looking at you? :embrass:
But why uncle want to shout at you?
If you have move back the table and chair to the original place, will you no face ?

No. My reaction was caused by his action, just like your posting is a reaction after reading the posts here.

I know liao lar, .... actually is the fault of the chair and table, cos the chair no move back on its own lor ...

If you have read carefully, tables were joined, not chairs.

 

[ricohflex]

ah...on leave.. how nice.

well the matter is over and fellow member funksoulava has had his say.
it helps to let off steam and is therapeutic.

no material loss or bodily injury suffered by anyone in that incident.
we empathise with the slight embarassment he may have felt but were not there so do not really know the full picture from both parties' point of view.

funksoulava can take stock of the opinions given and decide if he wants to let it pass or write to Forum page of ST.
it is his judgment call.

there are close to 100 messages already.
suggest thread starter close thread and move on.

it is year end holiday time and maybe can dwell on happier things....

 

[funksoulava]

I would also point out that we've heard/read only one side's perspective of the incident, which is probably reported in a not very objective way.

You may or may not have read this post.

I don't think I have 'condemned' that person yet. Just relating the incident being as objective as possible.

I know it's very unfair for the staff that I can complain here freely without his defence being called. This is why I wrote as objectively as possible. It's very easy to 'conveniently omit' facts like I said 'report to the police', but I didn't.

Your statement therefore that 'the incident, which is probably reported in a not very objective way' is very unfair and injurious to my persional repute.

I would hope that this is not the case. No question, service personnel should not be rude. On the other hand, we all make mistakes. If this is an isolated glitch, I think an employee should be given a chance to correct and improve. Good management will not only care about its customers, but also its employees. This can greatly boost workplace morale, which should result in more dedicated employees and, consequentially, better service.

By reporting the incident to the Han's management is giving the person 'a chance to correct and improve'. This should benefit both staff and employer.

Anyway, have just spoken with the HR Manager of Han's. Have related the whole incident to him and he offered his appologises on behalf. He also mentioned that they will trace who the staff is and 'will probable counsel him or give him a warning'. He sounded quite sincere so I guess we'll not pursue the matter. Don't want to jeopardise anybody's rice bowl over this incident.

 

[Big Kahuna]

This is one fine example of an over crowded outlet with over streched staff.....I had a bad experience in Cafe Cartel in Raffes City b4 too and were compensated with a bowl of ice cream after complaint.....that doesn't helps and I will avoid these outlets in future no matter what.....but I will still patrolling the similar chain in other area as I believe that was the poorly managed outlet that causes all these unhappiness :sweat: