The kind of attitude growing here

[wmayeo]

To cut my story short and direct. Newbies will ask questions. Some regular members at times will reply back comments... saying that they have seen so much of a similar question asked and replied "why don't you search the answers using the search feature?"

In the first place, why is there a forum? Why is there even a newbie section? Why does this forum wants to have member status? When the status really doesn't qualify the "senior" to be a true senior who understands where does the newbie's concerns come about. Seniors do forget they were once "newbies".

I hope others will find this feedback helpful. I do not want to target anyone or call names as it'll be too offensive and meaningless to deal matters here.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Watch your attitude first than help others. Thank you.

 

[loneWolff]

Maybe some of them weren't newbies but were newborns with talent bah.
Don't feel upset, cos I don't remember which dumb-ass wrote this theory but it might soothe your pain.

For every **** you encounter, at least one of them won't smell.
PS: If I were you, I wouldn't try smelling them in the first place.

 

[bonrya]

Uncle Alvin, take it easy. Its only the internet. come out for kopi one day. TCSS, relax. We can make some friends here too.

 

[foxtwo]

I wonder how did people learn photography before the invention of Internet & forums...

Yes there was a time I didn't know much about photography techniques and usage of my 35mm camera, but through shooting, note taking and self learning I at least managed to build the basics on my own. It does baffle me all the time, why some questions get asked. I also wonder how many answer variations of any specific question are floating in this forum, that so many have been asked and answered.

Within the Internet, there are existing photography websites and youtube videos explaining basics of photography. Instead of typing your generic question in CS and waiting for the many helpful souls to type back an equally generic text reply, why not just visit the other various sources available where there are (gasp) illustrated diagrams, pictures and videos.

Maybe it's because people like to think their questions are unique. No website teaching basic photography can possibly answer my question because I'm using a specific model & lense, so instead of searching & skimming through all sorts of irrelevent information not directly answering my question (nevermind I may learn something else) I shall post it online and wait for answers there.

Another theory is that they don't really know what their exact question is. How many times have we seen members trying all sorts to have TS clarify their problem. It's funny, because if they've spent a bit more time researching what they want to ask, they would have found the very answers needed.

Wouldn't mind having past newbie TSers express their own views on why posting a generic question was chosen over anything else. A chance to delve into the 21st century newbie mind.

What's wrong in asking people to learn on their own, mind you it's just learning the basic camera functions, terms and photography basics. Hate to make it a "back in my day..." kind of argument but back in my day, I didn't even have youtube or instant feedback with a DSLR. Why are people rude in replying newbies? Isn't it just as rude to have people being too lazy to look for answers themselves? We are not all bad, I've seen senior members who yesterday told someone to google, today spent time to type out a proper reply. Human Beings are all a curious folk.

 

[papajanggo33]

here's my take. there's two side of it. one with full of curiosity and the other full of sarcasm. i agree with foxtwo on newbies who are too lazy to search for answers are comparatively rude with seniors replying in that said manner. but this is just our basic etiqutte when people sits behind the monitor with a keyboard. seems to me the brain is inclined to direct their fingers to ask(by typing) and expect answers to flow in freely. rather than typing and clicking the mouse to get the answers, newbies tend to sit and wait,hoping to see variables and positive replies. in between,some are plainly harsh with "why don't you just google?"after all, we've been drilled since young; if in doubt, ASK.

CS is my 1st and only online forum where I spent time doing various research when I had my 1st DSLR. but it does not necessarily equates to me as being newbie(i say this to myself only) to basic photography as I've been shooting with PnS digicam for more than a decade. why bother to sit down and face the computer where you can go out ,have fun and start shooting. the manual is there for you to read.

but with online information easily available and the mobility of internet in your hands, the basic remains. people still ask for answers. this is the grey area or the fine line. some questions are really technical but some are just plain and common sense ones.
when i had my 1st class 2 bike and car, i join the respective groups. some meet up on adhoc, some on regular weekends hang out. in between, we had food and drinks and then the ball starts to roll in here. regardless of status, we mingle freely. we talk about almost everything technical while seeing the hardwares. online forum? nah..we are having live kopi cum TCSS with people in no time.thick and colourful magazines,both local and international are the other source of information that we carry and exchanged. whenever I drop by a workshop, friends are made easily. of course, one must have the impression to be approachable and friendly,but not all have that kind of face. this is where outings and gatherings are highly useful for hobbyist photographers in comparison. in here, people do change a bit. curiosity gets deeper and the urge to know could turn into passion or enthusiasm that could drive one to more than just typing and be a sitting duck.

just my opinion

 

[loneWolff]

When I was a noob, I didn't know what to ask, didn't know there is a thing call sticky thread and didn't even know what is flaming.
After getting my hands dirty roaming around this joint in the middle of the night for countless months, I finally understand a bit of this social circle.
So I can't blame the newbies if they ask "silly" questions, as they might not even know what is it that they actually seek to ask.
Maybe our education has not taught us to self explore but to relied on prefixed formats like ten year series.
Of course it would have been nice if those that reply offer help instead of lighting the TS on fire.
So next time I will remember to say "Have a nice day" before flaming anyone.

 

[coolthought]

I wonder how did people learn photography before the invention of Internet & forums...

Yes there was a time I didn't know much about photography techniques and usage of my 35mm camera, but through shooting, note taking and self learning I at least managed to build the basics on my own. It does baffle me all the time, why some questions get asked. I also wonder how many answer variations of any specific question are floating in this forum, that so many have been asked and answered.

Within the Internet, there are existing photography websites and youtube videos explaining basics of photography. Instead of typing your generic question in CS and waiting for the many helpful souls to type back an equally generic text reply, why not just visit the other various sources available where there are (gasp) illustrated diagrams, pictures and videos.

Maybe it's because people like to think their questions are unique. No website teaching basic photography can possibly answer my question because I'm using a specific model & lense, so instead of searching & skimming through all sorts of irrelevent information not directly answering my question (nevermind I may learn something else) I shall post it online and wait for answers there.

Another theory is that they don't really know what their exact question is. How many times have we seen members trying all sorts to have TS clarify their problem. It's funny, because if they've spent a bit more time researching what they want to ask, they would have found the very answers needed.

Wouldn't mind having past newbie TSers express their own views on why posting a generic question was chosen over anything else. A chance to delve into the 21st century newbie mind.

What's wrong in asking people to learn on their own, mind you it's just learning the basic camera functions, terms and photography basics. Hate to make it a "back in my day..." kind of argument but back in my day, I didn't even have youtube or instant feedback with a DSLR. Why are people rude in replying newbies? Isn't it just as rude to have people being too lazy to look for answers themselves? We are not all bad, I've seen senior members who yesterday told someone to google, today spent time to type out a proper reply. Human Beings are all a curious folk.

hmmm.... where is the "like" button for this.

sometimes I will point them to a link like this one here.
http://tinyurl.com/65sjkxr

 

[wakaowalao]

When I was a noob, I didn't know what to ask, didn't know there is a thing call sticky thread and didn't even know what is flaming.
After getting my hands dirty roaming around this joint in the middle of the night for countless months, I finally understand a bit of this social circle.
So I can't blame the newbies if they ask "silly" questions, as they might not even know what is it that they actually seek to ask.
Maybe our education has not taught us to self explore but to relied on prefixed formats like ten year series.
Of course it would have been nice if those that reply offer help instead of lighting the TS on fire.
So next time I will remember to say "Have a nice day" before flaming anyone.

This is the correct attitude. Shame on those google-chanters, shameless to those who aid in flaming.:sticktong

 

[wakaowalao]

The member status is really redundant, stupid and irrelevant to photography. Look at how many post-counts cheongster who clocked in few ks of posts within 2 years to "earn" senior status and started to flame newbies with more self-esteem-boosting replies.

 

[awesomesther]

When I was a noob, I didn't know what to ask, didn't know there is a thing call sticky thread and didn't even know what is flaming.
After getting my hands dirty roaming around this joint in the middle of the night for countless months, I finally understand a bit of this social circle.
So I can't blame the newbies if they ask "silly" questions, as they might not even know what is it that they actually seek to ask.
Maybe our education has not taught us to self explore but to relied on prefixed formats like ten year series.
Of course it would have been nice if those that reply offer help instead of lighting the TS on fire.
So next time I will remember to say "Have a nice day" before flaming anyone.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


Though I have to say, there are really some people who are 'sitting ducks', they type in a question and expect people to spoon-feed them with direct answers cos either they don't know how to find answers in any other way or they just can't be bothered to sieve through all the info to get exactly what they want so they rely on kind people in the forum to do that for them... these should not be condoned. So, if one comes across such a person/thread, perhaps we should all just leave it alone. if no one is replying/answering, maybe the TS will go do something else, like searching for answers him/herself...(hopefully)
But, if he/she still can't be bothered to do some work to get the answers desired, then ....... :dunno:

 

[foxtwo]

I've been browsing through an American photo forum, aptly named The Photo Forum, because they have a HTC app. Take a look at how their Beginners Forum is structured, ontop of asking questions, they also advocate posting of photos for C&C. And boy do they post photos, they post more photos than asking questions. Good luck having the same followed here, seeing how next to impossible it is for our own newbies to even post test shots of their problems when asking questions.

Here are some examples of good newbie questions, I'm sure we can spot the differences between American newbies and local newbies.
Difference between Av and Tv
Flash question
How much difference does a camera upgrade really make
Which camera would best suit my needs

Now here's a thread that resulting in flaming. If you think the "flaming" here is rude, you'll be popping blood vessels there. Their flaming is extremely funny though, ah American humor.
What does mm mean on lenses


So the really big question is, where do these American newbies find answers to their questions?

 

[lcheowl]

To cut my story short and direct. Newbies will ask questions. Some regular members at times will reply back comments... saying that they have seen so much of a similar question asked and replied "why don't you search the answers using the search feature?"

In the first place, why is there a forum? Why is there even a newbie section? Why does this forum wants to have member status? When the status really doesn't qualify the "senior" to be a true senior who understands where does the newbie's concerns come about. Seniors do forget they were once "newbies".

I hope others will find this feedback helpful. I do not want to target anyone or call names as it'll be too offensive and meaningless to deal matters here.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Watch your attitude first than help others. Thank you.

Those replied "why don't you search the answers using the search feature?", I will treat them do not have the necessary ability, knowledge to answer your doubt.

some may just want to +1 to their post.

I see nothing wrong that a same topic repeat every now and then in a forum as long as it do not happen too recently.

Of course, it become very irritating to see the same question being ask day in and day out, which sometime I will ask them to search the forum for an answer themselves ni the forum.

 

[allenleonhart]

I've been browsing through an American photo forum, aptly named The Photo Forum, because they have a HTC app. Take a look at how their Beginners Forum is structured, ontop of asking questions, they also advocate posting of photos for C&C. And boy do they post photos, they post more photos than asking questions. Good luck having the same followed here, seeing how next to impossible it is for our own newbies to even post test shots of their problems when asking questions.

Here are some examples of good newbie questions, I'm sure we can spot the differences between American newbies and local newbies.
Difference between Av and Tv
Flash question
How much difference does a camera upgrade really make
Which camera would best suit my needs

Now here's a thread that resulting in flaming. If you think the "flaming" here is rude, you'll be popping blood vessels there. Their flaming is extremely funny though, ah American humor.
What does mm mean on lenses


So the really big question is, where do these American newbies find answers to their questions?

google? books?

pming individuals who knows enough to be reliable helps also. ppl tend to react more positively once they see sufficient effort has been put in before asking the qn.

 

[awesomesther]

google? books?

pming individuals who knows enough to be reliable helps also. ppl tend to react more positively once they see sufficient effort has been put in before asking the qn.

very true, if the person has put reasonable effort before posting, I think (most) people will answer nicely ;p

 

[allenleonhart]

very true, if the person has put reasonable effort before posting, I think (most) people will answer nicely ;p

so far it works for me. and i've pm those ppl whom u normally think arent approachable cause of their attitude towards those who dun put in effort.

u will be surprised how much help i've gotten from them.

they are generally nice ppl. they just cant stand ppl who dun even want to help themselves first, and immediately ask others.

 

[awesomesther]

so far it works for me. and i've pm those ppl whom u normally think arent approachable cause of their attitude towards those who dun put in effort.

u will be surprised how much help i've gotten from them.

they are generally nice ppl. they just cant stand ppl who dun even want to help themselves first, and immediately ask others.

That's great!

I would consider myself a newbie still... But I am too paiseh to ask (most of the time)... So I make myself read and read and read on Google, wiki, and whatever manuals/guides and try to understand whatever I can... I think reading and self-teaching is underrated these days. "Ask and you shall receive" is often taken too liberally these days.

 

[allenleonhart]

yes. and contrary to popular belief,

the guys who ppl brand as "flamers", "senior members", "bully the newbies"...

most are really just nice friendly ppl, who are willing to lend that helping hand if they know u put in effort.

sure there are black sheeps prancing around, but i'll say a large majority are approachable.

 

[larrytok]

haha, relax la TS. true some of the "senior" members, often ask them to go search etc.. thats not wrong but i find that "name-calling" is not good though.. i try my best to feedback as most as possible.

 

[edutilos-]

I've been browsing through an American photo forum, aptly named The Photo Forum, because they have a HTC app. Take a look at how their Beginners Forum is structured, ontop of asking questions, they also advocate posting of photos for C&C. And boy do they post photos, they post more photos than asking questions. Good luck having the same followed here, seeing how next to impossible it is for our own newbies to even post test shots of their problems when asking questions.

Here are some examples of good newbie questions, I'm sure we can spot the differences between American newbies and local newbies.
Difference between Av and Tv
Flash question
How much difference does a camera upgrade really make
Which camera would best suit my needs

Now here's a thread that resulting in flaming. If you think the "flaming" here is rude, you'll be popping blood vessels there. Their flaming is extremely funny though, ah American humor.
What does mm mean on lenses


So the really big question is, where do these American newbies find answers to their questions?

The last thread is epic.

That aside, I think some members here do step over the line and just raze anyone and everyone for the sake of doing so.

 

[edutilos-]

Anyways, I think foxtwo's showcase of another forums simply disproves the myth that "overseas international forums" are so so so friendly. It's not the case. But generally if you post misinformation there you will be chided (gently, of course). That's something that I don't see here for the "exalted" members, especially since they have been accorded a (somewhat) "premium holier-than-thou and feet can't touch the ground" status by some of the newcomers who don't know better.

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/thre...lly-and-Suggestions-on-Proper-Forum-Etiquette