The Art & Design of Producing Professional Wedding Photobooks (Coffee-table) & Albums

[fotoudavid]

Wow Nic,

Good insight....Frankly speaking, I dun like coffeetable book. Pix are smaller and printing are expensive. I see this as a marketing gimmick. I normally try to just sell service and 4R or normal size prints.

I always tell couple to see the photos as photos so they'll appreciate the story the photo is telling, and not be distracted by beautiful layouts.

Now I just need more jobs, just went full time for 1+ month....dying soon if no more job comes in. OT abit, how to get sales to come in? I realise alot of couple like my work but not willing to pay, I have already reject 3 couples in June....why? :dunno:

Hi max,

Its marketing and trend, if not following, its fine, but there are more couples looking for it now adays, if you limit urself to just 4R prints, you are limiting ur $$$ also.

I have couples asking me do layout without prints ( i did not shoot their wedding, they just like my layout), but i tell them will consider, coz i did not shoot it myself, and worried that the pics i use are not that kinda pic i expect, and thus can't produce the layout i always come up with.

I am more worried abt consitency in layout and will not allow any chances of tarnising ( ENGLISH NO GD, HOW TO SPELL?)(ruin)my own name in the market. (thu not known yet):bsmilie:

Wedding market prices will be going up for sure, as more ppl can shoot good creative and excellence photos, it will force couples to accept it.

I forsee the market trend will be more in layout skills then just normal coffee table album, so will concentrate there. I know some will say coffee table isn't a layout album? yes it is, but there are different styles and skills level for each individual, so a coffee table can be a disaster for some photographers.

Before you are knocked out, try punching in, b4 you throw in the towel, might as well open the last few weddings files, and create something there, maybe you will be the next top designer in layout technics, and photographers queing up to let you do the layout.

My humble 2 cts.

 

[hazmee]

I always tell my client this: Cost, Quality, Speed. Pick any two.

Hehe.... hope you guys have a good weekend. Cheers!

 

[fotoudavid]

I always tell my client this: Cost, Quality, Speed. Pick any two.

Hehe.... hope you guys have a good weekend. Cheers!

hahahah good:thumbsup:

 

[Pro Image]

Pro Image .. any wedding portfolios from you to take a view ?

Thanks

Unless you are getting married and getting me to engage in your wedding shoots.

 

[Pro Image]

You "looked" angry...my apology, no offence. Actually, can you shorten your essay because I can't catch what you are driving at. Just like to present my work at its purest form, no gimmick, its personal lah. FYI, I used to be in the creative industry too, Was a senior designer for 5 years and moved on to be an art director for 4 years before giving all up, to do wedding shoots. I treat this as a next step as a creative, that is to take control of my creativity. Something I can't do in my previous job because people treat creative as a business.

It is a different in the industry where you are coming and where the photographers are coming from. Photography and creative desigenrs/art directors maybe related in some way but when you are the one executing the shots using the camera, it's a whole new whole. It's not about drawing/layouts only but that very instance moment which capture the essence.

Why limit yourself to just 300 X 4Rs only? It's that how you are were taught to sell your wedding portfolios? Max, let's put it this way. How much do you intend to earn for the next few months/years? 800? 1000? 1200? With 300 x 4R and a slot-in trend dying(if not already dead), how far can you go with it? Everyone around us has evolve, so how about you?

Some photographers in here are started and some move on to a new direction. You actually have a edge/avantage against us as you mentioned you are from the creative industry. You can actually bring out more new trendy styles towards the layout sections/coffee table books than any of us who is only photography train.

Get distracted by beautiful LAYOUTS???? Now, that is an insult to the creative industry. You think about it. Without excellence photos, beautiful layouts will turn out just as bad. I think you should have years of experience in this too right?

You may not like coffee table thingy but it's a trend now. Plus you still can give your 300 photos to the wedding couple in a CD and print less so save on printing cost. Some couples are looking at something more creative, not just flipping 10 pages of 4Rs.

Wedding couples do not just reject photographers just like that. There is many reasons for it. Pricing, they way you present the couples your portfolio, your manner and so on. You are not just selling your skills(as skills can be attain by any photographers) but your image as a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER. You are the couple's imaging consultant too. There is the saying goes, "You look bad, I look bad."

It's only 1 1/2 months since you started as full fledge photographer, you expect couples to start engaging you? Yeah some maybe lucky but you need to go true the hardship like you went through when you were a designer/art director. If photography is so easy to earn $$$$$$, I think many of us would have dive into this line long before. As a newbie in the professional market, I would suggest you study a little bit more on how the market trend is like.

As a working photographer, I can tell you that it's a long road. You may need to revamp your portfolio, do more networking with friends(anyone lar), meet up with long lost relatives, do up a website www.max28.com (i just created for you lar....haha ) and so on. And if all fails............go back to the creative industry..........JUST JOKING!:sweat:

As for the rest of the world :

Nowadays is a new zen trend which we call it "LESS IS MORE" meaning you show less and earn more lar!!!!

Again, we may have cheapo market and we have mid and high end. It all bolis down to how much we want to earn. Not saying cheapo market is for cheapo photographers but cheapo market can mean earning a little more than what we are looking at it now. $600-$1000 trends are over. Do you want to market yourself as a $600-$1000 cheapo photographer or $1500-$2000 cheapo photographer?

 

[TrailsofLife]

Wah pro image! i can't remember your name liao....its been so long...

I still dun like coffeetable book lah...its a trend....I m not a follower lor....
Unless, I can get BIG BIG offeetable books done and couple can afford, then I do...layout, no problem lah....he he....So for now, I prefer to offer assorted sized prints in personalised slot-in albums.

I have been shooting WD for 2 years on and off and paid and unpaid. This year is my 3rd year when I decided to step out as full-time.

I dun think you should classified $600-1000 as cheapo, not nice lah...this is CS not HWZ...I charge (service only) this range because I feel I not experience enough yet....Of course I can charge $2-3k and act like I know alot and very arty farty, but I prefer to be humble lah. 1 thing I learn from my 9 years in my ex-job...

I just wanna make a humble living, not trying be get rich from WD shoots.

lastly...brother......where have you been.....my webby is up long long time liao lah.....wah lao.....

 

[Pro Image]

Wah pro image! i can't remember your name liao....its been so long...

I still dun like coffeetable book lah...its a trend....I m not a follower lor....
Unless, I can get BIG BIG offeetable books done and couple can afford, then I do...layout, no problem lah....he he....So for now, I prefer to offer assorted sized prints in personalised slot-in albums.

I have been shooting WD for 2 years on and off and paid and unpaid. This year is my 3rd year when I decided to step out as full-time.

I dun think you should classified $600-1000 as cheapo, not nice lah...this is CS not HWZ...I charge (service only) this range because I feel I not experience enough yet....Of course I can charge $2-3k and act like I know alot and very arty farty, but I prefer to be humble lah. 1 thing I learn from my 9 years in my ex-job...

I just wanna make a humble living, not trying be get rich from WD shoots.

lastly...brother......where have you been.....my webby is up long long time liao lah.....wah lao.....

Sorry bro, everything in Singapore is getting more expensive and personally you can't really survive with a 600-1000 wedding packages.

You need not to be an arty party to charge 2000-3000. That's a wrong way to see it.

Not to ask you to follow the trend but I am sure from your own personal experience as a designer/art director, you can do something better then just slot in album right? Creative skills come in when you can put a story together with only 40-50 photos rather than 300-400, right?

The meaning of coffee table supposely to be small and compact yet able to deliver an impact on the couples. When it's too big, it will be clumsy and heavy. Not saying that we can't do BIG BIG table coffee album. The most important in most of wedding business is the woman who is getting married (not to say men don't go for quality) but woman always likes something which are easy to hold, compact and light like their mobile phones.

Everyone ones to be humble and earn a little to keep themselves happy but still this is our creative skills that's put on the line. Why should be charge 600-1000 only when others can charge 2000-3000. This one must follow right?

I have always been in Singapore and overseas occasionally. Will meet up for coffee one day.....too many on the list at the moment......including Uncle Chong, DP and the gang.:bsmilie:

 

[TrailsofLife]

I'll hang on to my pricing for now since I just started. I need to get some reputation first. I'll adjust my pricing next year.

I am definitely doing slot-in album but in a slightly different way, depends on how you put it, slot-in albums are normally 15 spreads or 30 pages too. If 40-50 photos of S10Rs, I dun mind but not those 6-8 pix on 1 page of 8 X 12....the pix are so.......small

By the way, show me your book leh....

 

[Pro Image]

I'll hang on to my pricing for now since I just started. I need to get some reputation first. I'll adjust my pricing next year.

I am definitely doing slot-in album but in a slightly different way, depends on how you put it, slot-in albums are normally 15 spreads or 30 pages too. If 40-50 photos of S10Rs, I dun mind but not those 6-8 pix on 1 page of 8 X 12....the pix are so.......small

By the way, show me your book leh....

You want to see har......???? Get married and engage me.......WAHAHAHAHA......:bsmilie:

 

[TrailsofLife]

You want to see har......???? Get married and engage me.......WAHAHAHAHA......:bsmilie:

Dn like dat lah, you my shifu once also wat

 

[Pro Image]

Dn like dat lah, you my shifu once also wat

hahaha......I your shifu in Makeover only mar......not Actual Wedding Day. Go look for your the other shifu........hehehe......i am sure he has plenty of photos to show you.:sticktong

 

[canturn]

Creative skills come in when you can put a story together with only 40-50 photos rather than 300-400, right?

Some photographers can put a story together with just 24-30 images and still sell the album for $800-1200. Quite a norm in overseas. Interestingly, 300 x4R in overseas context are called 'proof copies'.

to some, images are more important, to others, the album layout, presentation, material and binding is important.

any idea what hand-crafted leather bound and sewn albums cost overseas? if no one thot albums were important, they'd be out of business.

jOhO is absolutely right. Some couples are looking for high end boutique quality books, in fact, I've got couples who are willing to even pay $2500 just for a 8x10 album, 24 pages.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

Sorry bro, everything in Singapore is getting more expensive and personally you can't really survive with a 600-1000 wedding packages.

You need not to be an arty party to charge 2000-3000. That's a wrong way to see it.

Not to ask you to follow the trend but I am sure from your own personal experience as a designer/art director, you can do something better then just slot in album right? Creative skills come in when you can put a story together with only 40-50 photos rather than 300-400, right?

The meaning of coffee table supposely to be small and compact yet able to deliver an impact on the couples. When it's too big, it will be clumsy and heavy. Not saying that we can't do BIG BIG table coffee album. The most important in most of wedding business is the woman who is getting married (not to say men don't go for quality) but woman always likes something which are easy to hold, compact and light like their mobile phones.

Everyone ones to be humble and earn a little to keep themselves happy but still this is our creative skills that's put on the line. Why should be charge 600-1000 only when others can charge 2000-3000. This one must follow right?

I have always been in Singapore and overseas occasionally. Will meet up for coffee one day.....too many on the list at the moment......including Uncle Chong, DP and the gang.:bsmilie:

you hit the nail!

personally i hope you made your business plans well. Cheap does not mean you get more jobs

you wanna charge $800 for your services

$100 for transport on actual day
editing take 2 days one day you earn $100, x2 $200
equipment deprication per job (about $150)
meet client say 2 hours, each hour you charge $30 =$60
other stationary (etc paper) $1
total cost = $511 you earn $289

$289 profit a job, say only got 4 jobs a month, $1200 wow less than working in fast food joint. Would you rather work for someone and get a decent pay of $2 to 3k a month without stress?

you need to shoot at least 10 jobs a month to make some decent profit for your company, are you seriously able to handle so many jobs? Will quality suffer?

Also once you are priced at the price point bucket as a professional, your name goes around, will you seriously think its so easy to raise to the next price bucket of your target market? That is because your target base market will circulate your name around and all the forum talk (i notice the lower price markets will be more active in partake in wedding forums talk).

When i turn pro, i had to abrandon my freelance contacts and market as its impossible to survive with that service charge. There are rents to pay, bills, insurance, gear. the capitial outlay is so huge for a one man operation.

Oh and trust me, the lower end makets will not really bother how artistic you can shoot, rather they will only engage you base on referals or how good value they judge you (aka cheap). Most of these people will not wash those arty farty shots you shoot. They only want 'nice' pictures with their faces on it.

frankly i still cannot make decent profit charging under $2k if i only want to shoot actual day weddings. Next year i hope my clients average bill needs to hover between $3500 to $5000 in order to make this a viable business for us.

 

[canturn]

Gilbert, u left out the printing cost, 300x 4R, make that $90.00.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

Gilbert, u left out the printing cost, 300x 4R, make that $90.00.

ooch, and running to the lab and back and sending to clients, profit?:dunno:

 

[canturn]

we're going a little OT....

Back to the thing about coffee table books. Pro Image is certainly right to say that presentation in the form of a book is important. In fact, one of the client that just signed up with me this afternoon went to see 9 other photographers before that, which all of them had cofee-table album. Now, it is quite a norm now actually and as Breadtalk has shown us how easily pork floss buns can be copied, it won't be long before everyone will start copying your template (if they're good) or using the same software to do the layout.

If you can produce something that's niche that other folks can't do, that's when your product sells. Do you like prefer couples who engage you because they like your work, rather than those who get you because you're the cheapest?

 

[jOhO]

yo gilbert, interesting that you got $150 in depreciation per shoot, cos that's wat my costing is also!

 

[TrailsofLife]

Why get so worked up, Gilbert? Different people different perception. I know if I charge $2-3k now, my business won't even start. Slowly lah....
I dun know how you operates, my cost is not that high actually.

Just to quote Mark Lee " You say you good no use one, must people say you good than got use". I need to make my name move around first mah....Then people will pay.

Han from Han Photography charge $900 when he started 3 years ago, now he charge $1700 for service charge. Why? because he is good.

Ultimately, I enjoy what I do and it pays to feed me. Doesn't matter fast food restaurant or wedding shoot.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

Why get so worked up, Gilbert? Different people different perception. I know if I charge $2-3k now, my business won't even start. Slowly lah....
I dun know how you operates, my cost is not that high actually.

Just to quote Mark Lee " You say you good no use one, must people say you good than got use". I need to make my name move around first mah....Then people will pay.

Han from Han Photography charge $900 when he started 3 years ago, now he charge $1700 for service charge. Why? because he is good.

Ultimately, I enjoy what I do and it pays to feed me. Doesn't matter fast food restaurant or wedding shoot.

not worked up pal. food for thought.

ooh, that what we are all trying to tell you, your name will only go in circles with the same price range group, if you go up pricing, its back to square one finding more clients.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

yo gilbert, interesting that you got $150 in depreciation per shoot, cos that's wat my costing is also!

hi Joho!, actaully i was costing for max 2x 5D. my deprication is actually $1150 per month as i also have studio lights and lenses for certain projects. Its slightly higher per shot for me:sweat: