[Tech] Surprise : EM-1 Uses a Panasonic Sensor, not a Sony Sensor !
- Thread starter Agrivar
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So there's the "CCD vs CMOS" debate and the "Panasonic vs Sony" debate.
Truly, the Internet never gets old.
Truly, the Internet never gets old.Nonsense. I gave up on my EM5 because it has blotchy noise at even low ISO.
All it took was mere mention of Panasonic being the maker of the sensor and now all the shouts of jubilation dies down. Truly, this is nothing short of remarkable.
Nope. I had already mention about the noise performance of E-M1 last year way before anyone find out that they use pana sensor on E-M1.
You aren't pixel peeping hard enough. This is from the EM5.
Go fish:
_6120181.jpg by NazgulKing, on Flickr
An enlargement of the corner:
_6120181-enlargement.jpg by NazgulKing, on Flickr
If that isn't noisy (at ISO200), I don't know what noisy is.
even in the low possibility its exactly 100% the same, the 3 axis IBIS alone give the EM10 an advantage.
I guess everyone has different noise tolerences... i looked at Robin Wong's EM10 low ISO shots and they really look good up to ISO 6400. Totally usable. But I'll bet some pixel peepers would say its not good enough.. same with the EM1..
Funny you mention that. Because as far as noise performance goes, when the mod team tested the EM-1. It seems that its noise performance is superior to the EM-5. And that its noise performance at high ISO seems to edge out the D3 slightly. Which is unheard previously.
The brand doesn't matter. In the end, it is the performance of that particular sensor that matters. Today one brand can be king, tomorrow it can be the worst of the bunch. vice versa.
But you are free to believe in what you want to believe. Why cry foul? Just keep on using the EM-5.
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Yeap. So far looking at samples and hearing reviews being shared - the high ISO shots on EM10 looks all righty usable though I would go for a max ISO3200 which is already plenty.
I guess to some , pixel peeping is a hobby or maybe their jobs requires images of really huge size hence it's a huge deal. Even the idea of staring at 100% crops eludes me sometimes but well, I just shoot for fun and don't charge even for events cause I'm not that level yet.
Not running down the act of pixel peeping , rather we just need to be clear about our needs and think / consider accordingly when posting and commenting.
The funniest part is the sensor kinda passed the blind test for the most part but shhh.... people get head butt hurt regardless. :bsmilie:
Saying me ah? Hahahah! I find the E-M1's noise performance to be extremely good (that's my opinion), though in all fairness, D3 is older than the E-M1, but to some people (you know who you are), the price of a used D3, can get an E-M1 with the lens, lighter and pretty much just as good, maybe better to some.
As I've said previously somewhere here, A900 and D3 uses the exact same sensor (IIRC), yet the D3's IQ and color is better, goes to show sensor is only part of the process. Take a medium format sensor use it with a old processing engine, photos still won't be as good as today's processing engine. Everything is constantly improving, no point being shock (or outraged or whatever everyone is feeling individually) about what sensor the camera uses.
My friends ask me "eh spidey, what camera should I get?". I say go down, try, see feel which one shiok, take picture nice a not, once you find yes to both questions, settled! Can pixel peep are you want, but at the end of the day, even on print, no one is gonna take a magnifying glass and go "why this person not sharp?" or whatever other questions may come to mind. Shoot more and share everyone! =D
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This is an example of a skewed final score in a review on the Internet. If one just accepts the final score then will be misled.
On checking the details, you can see how unfair. Well he who pays the piper calls the tune.
Maybe someone wants to make the GX7 look good.
On checking the details, you can see how unfair. Well he who pays the piper calls the tune.
Maybe someone wants to make the GX7 look good.
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Made my day haha. so gonna show this to my students tomorrow on how statistics may be used by people with hidden agendas.
125 points out of a 322 points scored (almost 40%) is dubious =.= , and since when did popularity count for anything ?
Imo, Olympus camera noise issues can be separated into 3 categories, (I don't have E-M1 btw, just E-P5, I tested EM1 with Spidey89 back last Sept)
1. Typical usage less than 1 sec (hi iso),
2. Long exposure with Low iso for <1min,
3. long exposure > 1min.
(There's probably more but I won't go that far)
As what myself and spidey89 had tested in our E-M1 review, the EM1 hi ISO (cat 1) noise are better than EM5, but about a stop or so, no doubt about this.
The longest I tested with E-M1 was about 40s with ISO Low setting (which can be seen on ed9119 E-M1 review thread), it actually looks cleaner than ISO200 of EM5, and hot pixels are none existent.
We weren't able to test E-M1 for long exposure >1min (Cat 3)due to crossing bridges event then, though looking at several reviews online, EM1 seems to have issues with hot pixels for extended period >1min.
In any case, in my experience of shooting long exposure shots with Oly cameras, hot pixels has always been an issue even with EM5 or earlier models, the question is when does it come in? Depends: Using live bulb/time, using on a hot day, shooting continuously, based on what I've seen online on several diff sites, and it does seem EM1 gets it faster (shorter) than EM5. I would think the design of heat dissipation (rather than sensor) plays more of a role. I'm not technical enough to conclude, or even from most threads I've read in other sources.
Some E-M1 online reviews and this one particular stands out for me, for Wrotniak had been a very long time user for Olympus and written many useful articles.
And a 20page discussion on EM1 long exposure noise here,if you have time can read.
Certainly E-M1 is one fine camera, just as with most cameras these days regardless of sensor. Just know it's limitation for long exposure >1min (which I do think not many shoot it that long even).
For what is worth here's a LE shot (73sec) with E-M10 which was tested when me and Spidey89 had for 2.5 days. Schedule was tight so didn't shoot night LE shot. There's a new Live Composite function that may help in reducing hot pixels, which we hope to test when we ever get the pre production set again.
E-M10+12-40, 73secs @F11, ISO200, Noise Filter OFF, Long exposure noise reduction ON (some call this "dark frame subtraction"). I used 2 ND filter (10+3 stops) to achieve that slow speed, hence some IQ may drop as well.
Cropped 100% (darker part of the picture to show shadow noise)
Again, some may not like IS200 noise shown, I can accept it, though using ISO100 would surely yield even cleaner results (but the highlights maybe blown more easily). It's always the hot pixels that bothers me with oly cameras, but in this case, E-M10 hasn't shown any, but this is certainly not a stress test...and for the pixel peepers, this is the large reso file link
Hope that helps
1. Typical usage less than 1 sec (hi iso),
2. Long exposure with Low iso for <1min,
3. long exposure > 1min.
(There's probably more but I won't go that far)
As what myself and spidey89 had tested in our E-M1 review, the EM1 hi ISO (cat 1) noise are better than EM5, but about a stop or so, no doubt about this.
The longest I tested with E-M1 was about 40s with ISO Low setting (which can be seen on ed9119 E-M1 review thread), it actually looks cleaner than ISO200 of EM5, and hot pixels are none existent.
We weren't able to test E-M1 for long exposure >1min (Cat 3)due to crossing bridges event then, though looking at several reviews online, EM1 seems to have issues with hot pixels for extended period >1min.
In any case, in my experience of shooting long exposure shots with Oly cameras, hot pixels has always been an issue even with EM5 or earlier models, the question is when does it come in? Depends: Using live bulb/time, using on a hot day, shooting continuously, based on what I've seen online on several diff sites, and it does seem EM1 gets it faster (shorter) than EM5. I would think the design of heat dissipation (rather than sensor) plays more of a role. I'm not technical enough to conclude, or even from most threads I've read in other sources.
Some E-M1 online reviews and this one particular stands out for me, for Wrotniak had been a very long time user for Olympus and written many useful articles.
And a 20page discussion on EM1 long exposure noise here,if you have time can read.
Certainly E-M1 is one fine camera, just as with most cameras these days regardless of sensor. Just know it's limitation for long exposure >1min (which I do think not many shoot it that long even).
For what is worth here's a LE shot (73sec) with E-M10 which was tested when me and Spidey89 had for 2.5 days. Schedule was tight so didn't shoot night LE shot. There's a new Live Composite function that may help in reducing hot pixels, which we hope to test when we ever get the pre production set again.
E-M10+12-40, 73secs @F11, ISO200, Noise Filter OFF, Long exposure noise reduction ON (some call this "dark frame subtraction"). I used 2 ND filter (10+3 stops) to achieve that slow speed, hence some IQ may drop as well.
Cropped 100% (darker part of the picture to show shadow noise)
Again, some may not like IS200 noise shown, I can accept it, though using ISO100 would surely yield even cleaner results (but the highlights maybe blown more easily). It's always the hot pixels that bothers me with oly cameras, but in this case, E-M10 hasn't shown any, but this is certainly not a stress test...and for the pixel peepers, this is the large reso file link
Hope that helps
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Actually I'm one of those who is surprised at the revelation. Not in a good or bad way nor does it change anything but just didn't expect it.
And the main reason being other than small nuances, the E-M1 and E-M5 perform about the same to my eye and I just expected it to be from the same manufacturer.
And the main reason being other than small nuances, the E-M1 and E-M5 perform about the same to my eye and I just expected it to be from the same manufacturer.
Cropped 100% (darker part of the picture to show shadow noise)
Again, some may not like IS200 noise shown, I can accept it, though using ISO100 would surely yield even cleaner results (but the highlights maybe blown more easily). It's always the hot pixels that bothers me with oly cameras, but in this case, E-M10 hasn't shown any, but this is certainly not a stress test...and for the pixel peepers, this is the large reso file link
Hope that helps
Looks like bog standard Olympus noise to me.
But as someone pointed out to me, when one gets around to make some prints, those splotchy noise won't be an issue and I do agree with him on that. But... I suppose if one wants to look at both prints and screen, one has to give up the latter...
I was surprised by this news because the EM1 has embedded PDAF sensors, and Sony has made such sensors before. There is also no incentive for Panasonic to develop such a sensor, as it only benefits Olympus users.
Could this sensor be a Sony design, but made by Panasonic?
Could this sensor be a Sony design, but made by Panasonic?
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