Superior write speed of D70
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interesting argument as to why the faster write speed of the Mk2 should be disregarded. By that reasoning:
If one camera has firewire and usb 1.1 but the other only has usb 1.1, we shouldn't measure firewire and stick to comparing usb 1.1 speeds to declare which is 'faster'?
If a camera can use Write acceleration, we also should not use it and stick to regular CFs for comparisons (never heard any Canon user arguing that one even though Canons can't use WA)?
Again the answer is in 'real world' usage. Will Mk 2 users seeking the faster write speeds purchase SD cards for use with the Mk 2. If I were shooting sports professionally, i would. If professionals/users are indeed using SD cards for their Mk2, then certainly, Mk2 SD write speeds should be factored into the comparison.
If one camera has firewire and usb 1.1 but the other only has usb 1.1, we shouldn't measure firewire and stick to comparing usb 1.1 speeds to declare which is 'faster'?
If a camera can use Write acceleration, we also should not use it and stick to regular CFs for comparisons (never heard any Canon user arguing that one even though Canons can't use WA)?
Again the answer is in 'real world' usage. Will Mk 2 users seeking the faster write speeds purchase SD cards for use with the Mk 2. If I were shooting sports professionally, i would. If professionals/users are indeed using SD cards for their Mk2, then certainly, Mk2 SD write speeds should be factored into the comparison.
Watcher said:You are comparing different types of media; each media has its own limitation. That is an apple to pear comparision. It is like saying that flying on a commercial airplane is faster than on a cruise shipDuh!
All media type equal, the speed between the D2H and 1DMkII still stand. If tomorrow some new camera comes out with a super interface that cost 20x but writes 5x faster, would you compare them?
Media is just a storage medium mah. Whether CF or SD, as long as it stores images fast, it's a good media for a DSLR ;p and here, we're talking abt write speed of images or how fast images get flushed out to a removable media, whatever it is.
Actually, using most CF cards (not all), D2H performs faster . Specific media types, e.g. CF2 Hitachi 4GB Microdrive, have some difference (1DMkII is 70-100% faster compared to D2H) :dunno: Guess it's due to different I/O implementation. If there're faster microdrives in the future, 1DMkII may even leapfrog over D2H for fastest CF write speeds.
But the fact remains that if speed is a must (does it happen in real-life situation?), there is the option for the 1DMkII user to use a faster media (i.e. SD).
hmm... why are we all grappling with write speeds? For CF, none can beat a lowly $25 card reader yet or even match 50% of the speed. There's a lot of room for improvement for both Canon AND Nikon, not to mention all the other manufacturers like Olympus, Pentax and Fujifilm whose DSLRs are no where as fast as the 3 mentioned here. It shouldn't be that expensive or difficult to build a DSLR that writes faster (discounting the rest of the processing needed to prepare the images).
Canon 1D MKII
- never let it sleep, cos in real life if 2.5secs is all it takes to wake up, you'll be losing lots of shots during weddings and wildlife, and this leads to the 2nd point
- Battery life, aiyoh... 1200 shots? Imagine you turn IS on... :think:
- 8MP, hmm I dunnoe, I prefer to shoot it right first time round, I hate cropping, maybe I ain't good at it.
Eh.. what I'm driving at? Get D2H lah aiyoh!! Why get a Kwanon? :devil:
Canon - It brings out the s*****s in you :devil:
(Ok Nikon council, this is where you laugh after reading :bsmilie: )
- never let it sleep, cos in real life if 2.5secs is all it takes to wake up, you'll be losing lots of shots during weddings and wildlife, and this leads to the 2nd point
- Battery life, aiyoh... 1200 shots? Imagine you turn IS on... :think:
- 8MP, hmm I dunnoe, I prefer to shoot it right first time round, I hate cropping, maybe I ain't good at it.
Eh.. what I'm driving at? Get D2H lah aiyoh!! Why get a Kwanon? :devil:
Canon - It brings out the s*****s in you :devil:
(Ok Nikon council, this is where you laugh after reading :bsmilie: )
sykestang
Senior Member
espn said:
hmmm... a 'PRO' that need it's sleep/rest, and takes 2.5secs to wake up... what a snail.. not sure whether it fits the 'PRO' category or better be classified as 'RETIREE' category... :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:
espn said:
only the mere 1200 shots??? :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:
What a 'PRO' camera...
espn said:
Not to mention that there is a long thread in DPReview that 1DMarkII produces 'soft' pictures as compared to their own 1D & 1Ds... :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:
What's the point of having 8MP when the final results is soft... really 'PRO' standard? As mentioned, 'RETIREE' category would be more fitting cos as it aged, poor 'eye-sight' that's why can't produce sharp images... :think:
espn said:
Looks like 4MP is still much better... faster file saving, no start up time and instance wake up, 4000+ shoots with 1 charge, 3D colour matrix, CAM 2000 motor drive, etc...
espn said:
I'm from the Nikon Council... :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:
sykestang
Senior Member
Now I can see why there isn't a big 'hoo ha' on the Canon 1DMarkII... cos it comes in silently, makes some ppl become a s*****s, create a BIG laughing stock, and... maybe will disappear from the surface of the earth by releasing a replacement model, maybe 1DmarkIII ;p in 6mth time.
But then, what do Canon gain???
Makes a s*****s out of some ppl on the 1DMarkII and tie them down... then later, makes more s*****s with a replacement model. Not mention those who might become the 2nd s*****s if they replace their 1DMarkII for the new replacement model...
Just a thinker... :think:
But then, what do Canon gain???
Makes a s*****s out of some ppl on the 1DMarkII and tie them down... then later, makes more s*****s with a replacement model. Not mention those who might become the 2nd s*****s if they replace their 1DMarkII for the new replacement model...
Just a thinker... :think:
just to correct a few facts. I've nothing for pro cameras cos they're simply too heavy for my usage.
1. 1DMkII wake up time is 0.5s if I remember correctly. Opinion: faster would be better but it's not a problem for most.
2. The methodology used for battery testing is different, so the numbers may not be comparable. According to DPReview, D2H's manual listed battery usage for different scenarios (it's as low as 600 with VR off(?) and as high as 2900). Opinion: Continuous shooting with LCD off can generally get a lot more pics. I believe pros chimp less than the amateurs... right?
3. As for pixel count, 1D Mk II could save at 4MP as well, while the D2H cannot capture at 8MP (which is probably not necessary for photo journalists but a larger pixel count does have it's applications). File write times is also faster for 1D Mk II using media that is available in the market. Opinion: having options is useful when the situation calls for it. May also make the camera more versatile for other uses, e.g. blowups - double the pixel count generally mean the ability to double the print size while maintaining the same quality.
All said, both are very capable tools that do their job well. It's up to the photographers that use them to capture brilliant images.
1. 1DMkII wake up time is 0.5s if I remember correctly. Opinion: faster would be better but it's not a problem for most.
2. The methodology used for battery testing is different, so the numbers may not be comparable. According to DPReview, D2H's manual listed battery usage for different scenarios (it's as low as 600 with VR off(?) and as high as 2900). Opinion: Continuous shooting with LCD off can generally get a lot more pics. I believe pros chimp less than the amateurs... right?
3. As for pixel count, 1D Mk II could save at 4MP as well, while the D2H cannot capture at 8MP (which is probably not necessary for photo journalists but a larger pixel count does have it's applications). File write times is also faster for 1D Mk II using media that is available in the market. Opinion: having options is useful when the situation calls for it. May also make the camera more versatile for other uses, e.g. blowups - double the pixel count generally mean the ability to double the print size while maintaining the same quality.
All said, both are very capable tools that do their job well. It's up to the photographers that use them to capture brilliant images.
Wah all this makes my D70 looks real good leh. Now I can say my D70 also pro. Beat some improved Mark II, Mark III, Mark IV PRO camera in terms of speed (Read, write and start up), Looong battery life (No need to switch off, no really leave it on for days and it will still take a 1000 photos when you press the trigger), Simply perfect flash system !!! (want to compare strobe side by side !!), Good value too.
Now The real world is that Canon users had been suckered into testing and testing "improved" models and not get it right the first time so you go figure it out.... :blah:
Now The real world is that Canon users had been suckered into testing and testing "improved" models and not get it right the first time so you go figure it out.... :blah:
to me a 'sucker' is a clueless photographic newbie who thinks that buying a DSLR will enable him to take good photographs. The newbie then buys a 300D or D70 and continues to take terrible photographs and wonders 'how come my photographs so lousy, my D70's specifications better than 1D Mk2 what...'
Such people prefer to read specifications in brochures and opinions in dpreview rather than going out to take photographs and improving their technique. Post history of such people will show: 50% talking about equipment, 50% in Buy and Sell, 0% discussions about photo technique, 0% posting pictures for critique.
i will add that i don't think the majority of clubsnappers are like that, as I see more and more clubsnappers going on photo expeditions to BG, Sime, Khatib Bongsu etc etc than before....
Such people prefer to read specifications in brochures and opinions in dpreview rather than going out to take photographs and improving their technique. Post history of such people will show: 50% talking about equipment, 50% in Buy and Sell, 0% discussions about photo technique, 0% posting pictures for critique.
i will add that i don't think the majority of clubsnappers are like that, as I see more and more clubsnappers going on photo expeditions to BG, Sime, Khatib Bongsu etc etc than before....
I bid everyone involved in this thread to keep the discussion constructive and civil. There is already a couple of posts here that are off the chart so ... watch it fellas before it degenerates.
/moderator mode OFF
Numbers are just digits marketing peeps use to draw the crowd to their products, there are other key factors like :
Field performance
~ ruggedness, how does the battery fare in cold weathers, how well it performs after a period of usage, does it weigh a tonne is an important field consideration too
Pixel quality/density
~ the quality you get per pixel, not how many pixels you get
Ergonomics
~ how well a product is designed to fit the photographer, things like ... can one switch AF modes/points effectively? Can one get features like mirror-lockup up and running quickly? Change modes without having to lift one's eyes off the viewfinder?
Economy
~ Sure, this is a form of number and there are tonnes of rich peeps out there but ultimately, is the price justifiable for the product?
It is not difficult to see what each offering is driving at, and whether it is a major facelift or just an attempt to raise the numbers, it is up to one to find out.
However, this does not equate better photographs if one is just out to harp about specs and numbers. So what are you waiting for? Go out and start shooting already!
/moderator mode ON
/moderator mode OFF
Numbers are just digits marketing peeps use to draw the crowd to their products, there are other key factors like :
Field performance
~ ruggedness, how does the battery fare in cold weathers, how well it performs after a period of usage, does it weigh a tonne is an important field consideration too
Pixel quality/density
~ the quality you get per pixel, not how many pixels you get
Ergonomics
~ how well a product is designed to fit the photographer, things like ... can one switch AF modes/points effectively? Can one get features like mirror-lockup up and running quickly? Change modes without having to lift one's eyes off the viewfinder?
Economy
~ Sure, this is a form of number and there are tonnes of rich peeps out there but ultimately, is the price justifiable for the product?
It is not difficult to see what each offering is driving at, and whether it is a major facelift or just an attempt to raise the numbers, it is up to one to find out.
However, this does not equate better photographs if one is just out to harp about specs and numbers. So what are you waiting for? Go out and start shooting already!
/moderator mode ON
Hi people,
While I myself use Nikon equipment and the "Nikon Council" is welcome to discuss all things pertaining to Nikon, please make sure that all discussions abide by our Terms of Use - specifically #1 and #6.
Repeated dis-regard of the Terms of Use will result in banishment no matter what brand of camera you use.
While I myself use Nikon equipment and the "Nikon Council" is welcome to discuss all things pertaining to Nikon, please make sure that all discussions abide by our Terms of Use - specifically #1 and #6.
Repeated dis-regard of the Terms of Use will result in banishment no matter what brand of camera you use.
That reflects badly on them don't you think. :think: I thought this type of "council" should be a place where members gather and trade tips, advice and skills and share equipment knowledge. Instead they are becoming known more for their "bashing" of that other camera brand.UY79 said:
Nikon Council = "brand bashers?"
Facts or selected facts?arikevin said:
Picking out the strengths, downplaying the weaknesses, posting jibes at the other brand and its users at every opportunity?
Is Canon's any different? Or Pentax's for that matter? Don't always pick out the EF-S as an example when it is just a single lens when Nikon's lineup is littered with lenses that have crippled functionality with certain bodies, not to mention DX(18-70) lenses that cannot be used on film without vignetting.
Yes, they are all facts, just that some chose to blowup some and ignore others.
It gets very grating even for Nikon users to read so many fanboy and potentially misleading posts in the Nikon forum.
newtoforums
New Member
Im new to all this but having read all the posts in this thread, i feel that the few Nikon Council members has stepped out of line in their boast n calling others "suckers", perhaps the Admin n moderators of this forum should step in n take necessary action to prevent a repeat of such outbursts as a forum is suppose to foster better understanding of photography n camaderie amongst fellow photo enthusiasts n should not be used to insult any particular brand user or for forming "cliques".
From reading their posts, i believe some members here are very well versed technically but why the need to "slam" other posters who do not support/share similar views? Is this the whole purpose of a forum? To "slam" anyone who do not agree with your view??
Ive just joined as a member a few days ago n have only read a few threads but this one gives me the feeling that there is bad blood between the users of different brands of cameras n name calling should not be used here. It reminds me of a certain photo club of days of old, where one will only be spoken to when one owns an upmarket brand of camera irrespective of whether u are a newbie or a pro.Then they started to form "cliques" by camera brand, that really put me off!!
Im all for sharing info. n discussion but not trading insults!
Debating is fine, pls realise not everyone understands the point of your topic n being the starter the onus is on you to explain to ppl like us who are not so well versed technically!
Therefore, why the unnecessary bashing?? I Just dont get it??
From reading their posts, i believe some members here are very well versed technically but why the need to "slam" other posters who do not support/share similar views? Is this the whole purpose of a forum? To "slam" anyone who do not agree with your view??
Ive just joined as a member a few days ago n have only read a few threads but this one gives me the feeling that there is bad blood between the users of different brands of cameras n name calling should not be used here. It reminds me of a certain photo club of days of old, where one will only be spoken to when one owns an upmarket brand of camera irrespective of whether u are a newbie or a pro.Then they started to form "cliques" by camera brand, that really put me off!!
Im all for sharing info. n discussion but not trading insults!
Debating is fine, pls realise not everyone understands the point of your topic n being the starter the onus is on you to explain to ppl like us who are not so well versed technically!
Therefore, why the unnecessary bashing?? I Just dont get it??
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