Suggesting age limit for models

[scandal599]

The guide is already there, needs further development. But as 'TheQuestion' has pointed out: How many people read it finally? Every day one can see examples of people ignoring existing information and guidelines here in CSThat's why I had the idea of an additional subscription where the subscriber needs to actively reply to an email, similar to many email lists. Only upon this active confirmation the person gets access. The response can be kept in an archive and can serve as basis for any discussions later. That's the maximum what I can think of considering the legal and organizational aspects. Secondly, as already mentioned earlier (either here on in the other hot threads): AverRal can get the moderator role and start advocating her way. Many gals might be thankful but in return she'll get more exposure to the business. This will help her to check ideas against reality.

As it is the guide is there, but to put it bluntly, having read through, IMO, these are just general guidelines. They are not exactly comprehensive enough to give models a picture. Which was I a gave her the tumbs up for having the idea of approaching people in the industry to find out more. Have a more comprehensive guide. We cannot cover all the grounds, but at least an in depth one would be better tham a general one.

As far as for the email thing...that I think will put people off. How many times have you received a mail from only to either delete it or just completely ignore it? In this case people will just blindly accept and we are still not better off to be honest.

As for her mod role...dunno really have not really thought about that :sweat:

 

[TheQuestion]

As it is the guide is there, but to put it bluntly, having read through, IMO, these are just general guidelines. They are not exactly comprehensive enough to give models a picture. Which was I a gave her the tumbs up for having the idea of approaching people in the industry to find out more. Have a more comprehensive guide. We cannot cover all the grounds, but at least an in depth one would be better tham a general one.

As far as for the email thing...that I think will put people off. How many times have you received a mail from only to either delete it or just completely ignore it? In this case people will just blindly accept and we are still not better off to be honest.

As for her mod role...dunno really have not really thought about that :sweat:

after what's happened no one is gonna accept her as a mod. she's shown no ability to be impartial. if she wants to be a mod she can go set up her own forum.

 

[CYRN]

after what's happened no one is gonna accept her as a mod. she's shown no ability to be impartial. if she wants to be a mod she can go set up her own forum.

She is to moderate the shoot organisers and enforce the guidelines she proposed. Those who did not meet her guidelines will not be allowed to post their services.

 

[TheQuestion]

She is to moderate the shoot organisers and enforce the guidelines she proposed. Those who did not meet her guidelines will not be allowed to post their services.

i predict a boom in ******* membership and sammy boy.:bsmilie:

 

[CYRN]

i predict a boom in ******* membership and sammy boy.:bsmilie:

...hmmm... I wonder if they also have TFCD/XMM shoot organisers there. :think:

 

[scandal599]

...hmmm... I wonder if they also have TFCD/XMM shoot organisers there. :think:

No lah...they too smart...DDD/DMM.:bsmilie:

My bad....OT...sorry:sweat:

 

[Octarine]

As far as for the email thing...that I think will put people off. How many times have you received a mail from only to either delete it or just completely ignore it? In this case people will just blindly accept and we are still not better off to be honest.

If one wants to reach people to advocate certain guidelines and practices then one needs to get the people's attention first. I'm open to any other way that creates more attention; whoever wants to subscribe and list his/her services should spend more time on that rather than just "click & go". Maybe there's a different way to design the section, comparable to the templates used in B&S section.

 

[scandal599]

If one wants to reach people to advocate certain guidelines and practices then one needs to get the people's attention first. I'm open to any other way that creates more attention; whoever wants to subscribe and list his/her services should spend more time on that rather than just "click & go". Maybe there's a different way to design the section, comparable to the templates used in B&S section.

In a way I agree should capture the attention of the people, but no offense, I think mails will end up in the trash. Plus the servers need to send out mails every now and then, resources will be wasted.

Honestly...cannot think of anything now...brain dead:hung:

 

[lightbrush]

Hats off to you, with your cunning use of generalisations and hyperbole. Man, you sure are trying your best to drum up an unreasonable fear of the unknown arent you.

Lets get things clear. CS is an online meeting place for photographers, with its associated services. What it isnt is a center of moral teaching. You seem to advocate the storing of personal information as a means of ensuring that things are kosher. While lots of Singaporeans are flippant about the whole issue of privacy, am pretty sure that there are others who are aghast at the thought of an online social club needing something as important as an IC number. Also, since when did it become the responsibility of the admins and mods to safeguard such personal details anyway? I think that they have day jobs you know. And, why does "Clubsnap will need to exercise due diligence and put in place reasonable security measures to ensure its data is not compromised"? Are they a financial institution? Do they conduct an online business? Do you know how much a solution would cost? Plus the hassle of regular audits etc?

As for your painting of a whole generation of young girls as 'impressionable' and finding the ‘lure of being a model and earning money is irresistable', well, doesnt the role of guardient traditionally fall to the category of people called 'parents'? Where are they in this discussion? Seriously, if I had a kid and I thought that she wasnt really streetsmart, I'd want to keep an eye on what she does online, especially if she has dreams of being a 'model'. Its very Singaporean to pass on responsibility to others, but come on. To CS admins? No slight to them, but my take is, if you sired her, you should keep an eye on her. Not some volunteer person who does this job because he is interested in photography. Would you go to a dentist to get your car fixed?

Maybe this whole forum should just implode upon itself. I mean, there are just too many things to fear out there...

"Cunning use of generalisations and hyperbole "?
You overestimated me but there is nothing cunning here nor is there any intent to invoke unreasonable fear of the unknown. Read thru' some of the postings and you will find complaints of models being inappropriately touched by photographers being "helpful". It is something that is already happening.

"Seriously, if I had a kid and I thought that she wasnt really streetsmart, I'd want to keep an eye on what she does online, especially if she has dreams of being a 'model'".
Unfortunately, it's easier said than done. Kids are highly sophisticated users of technology. While it is not the responsibility of CS admins to safeguard the moral well-being of young girls, is digging a hole and putting your head into it the right thing to do? Omission is not a crime no doubt but as I have mentioned before, this goes beyond the legal confines of the law. Would CS allow itself to be used as a platform for moral decadence?

Collecting personal information is just one suggestion put up by a forumner. The whole point of the argument is that some measures must be put in place to manage this problem, be it collecting personal information or other reasonable means. But personally, I think not doing anything is not a good option.

 

[Octarine]

The whole point of the argument is that some measures must be put in place to manage this problem, be it collecting personal information or other reasonable means. But personally, I think not doing anything is not a good option.

As many have pointed out: It is NOT the responsibility of the forum to sniff around in people's privacy - nor are they entitled and obliged to do so. Please: before you demand things put in place check whether they are legally feasible. Otherwise you are at the same dreaming level as AverRal. Ideas are good but if the damage is bigger than the benefit they deserve to be dropped. And digging into personal information of thousands just because a few guys can't keep their finger at the shutter is far beyond reason and healthy ratio.
When your kids are old enough will you ask their friends about NRIC? Just in case one of them can't keep the fingers in the pockets...

 

[lightbrush]

As many have pointed out: It is NOT the responsibility of the forum to sniff around in people's privacy - nor are they entitled and obliged to do so. Please: before you demand things put in place check whether they are legally feasible. Otherwise you are at the same dreaming level as AverRal. Ideas are good but if the damage is bigger than the benefit they deserve to be dropped. And digging into personal information of thousands just because a few guys can't keep their finger at the shutter is far beyond reason and healthy ratio.
When your kids are old enough will you ask their friends about NRIC? Just in case one of them can't keep the fingers in the pockets...

You miss the point totally. The idea of ensuring that models who want to advertise their services register themselves and that they have to be above a certain age is to protect ClubSnap. I am at a loss of how this can cause damage. Nobody advocated "digging" into thousands of personal information as you have suggested. In fact, i really do not know from what angle you are coming from. Are there thousands of models advertising their services in CS that it becomes onerous to keep track?

And I do not "demand" things to be put in place. This is a forum for discussion and I am doing just that, putting forth ideas and suggestions. Pls do not twist my words. And finally, keep this discussion within context and keep my kids out of it.

 

[sORe-EyEz]

As many have pointed out: It is NOT the responsibility of the forum to sniff around in people's privacy - nor are they entitled and obliged to do so. Please: before you demand things put in place check whether they are legally feasible. Otherwise you are at the same dreaming level as AverRal. Ideas are good but if the damage is bigger than the benefit they deserve to be dropped. And digging into personal information of thousands just because a few guys can't keep their finger at the shutter is far beyond reason and healthy ratio.
When your kids are old enough will you ask their friends about NRIC? Just in case one of them can't keep the fingers in the pockets...

this is not about a person's privacy. this thread is about keeping those deemed too young away from the negative aspects of modelling from individuals who are currently exploiting a loophole in this forum. this in turn will protect the shoot organisers who engage in their modelling services & photograhers who join the shoots.

do refrain from name calling. anybody contributing a constructive suggestion should be given due respect. maybe you can enlighten folks here on the potential damage that outweighs the benefits. how this could lead to 'digging into personal information'?

to draw a comparison to kids asking friends about NRIC shows how misunderstood some are about the core issues & implications of the purpose of the thread.

 

[vince123123]

Hahah what loophole? Protect shoot organisers from what?

 

[sORe-EyEz]

Hahah what loophole? Protect shoot organisers from what?

loophole in age for nude shots (think child porn shoot if a model claims "just a few years senior"). protect shoot organisers from models who dun turn up at all, or are late for shoots.

 

[Octarine]

this is not about a person's privacy. this thread is about keeping those deemed too young away from the negative aspects of modelling from individuals who are currently exploiting a loophole in this forum. this in turn will protect the shoot organisers who engage in their modelling services & photograhers who join the shoots.

do refrain from name calling. anybody contributing a constructive suggestion should be given due respect. maybe you can enlighten folks here on the potential damage that outweighs the benefits. how this could lead to 'digging into personal information'?

to draw a comparison to kids asking friends about NRIC shows how misunderstood some are about the core issues & implications of the purpose of the thread.

If you set up any guideline here that results in collecting data then it touches privacy. The only person who would be entitled to ask me about personal information during a photoshoot would be the model. Nobody else. Personal information are only to be obtained and processed when it is necessary for the fulfillment. Everything else is sniffing into privacy. But I'm repeating here something that has been discussed before. You want to check back on the other threads about this topic.
As simple comparison is not name calling and discussions are not done with velvet gloves.

 

[reachme2003]

like selling cigarettes to under 18 yo. the law is very clear. determine conclusively the age of buyer before transacting. the only way is to see their dob. eg. on ic. or else, $2,000 penalty and ban on selling cigar products for a period of time.

 

[sORe-EyEz]

If you set up any guideline here that results in collecting data then it touches privacy. The only person who would be entitled to ask me about personal information during a photoshoot would be the model. Nobody else. Personal information are only to be obtained and processed when it is necessary for the fulfillment. Everything else is sniffing into privacy. But I'm repeating here something that has been discussed before. You want to check back on the other threads about this topic.
As simple comparison is not name calling and discussions are not done with velvet gloves.

there may not be a need to collect & retain such personal data. just as ticket ushers have the right to demand a check on a patron's age & refuse entry to movies rated M18 or R21 (for those deemed not to meet age requirements), in that instance no personal info was retained, hence no case for abuse.

i'm still waiting on your reply on the "digging into personal information" you claim.

perhaps a better analogy would be a much better comparison dun you think? discussions are not done with clenched fists & personal anecdotes.

 

[Octarine]

there may not be a need to collect & retain such personal data. just as ticket ushers have the right to demand a check on a patron's age & refuse entry to movies rated M18 or R21 (for those deemed not to meet age requirements), in that instance no personal info was retained, hence no case for abuse.

Then the ticket ushers seem to work in an legal gray zone. They are not entitled to ask for personal information (have a look at NRIC or equivalent documents) but are supposed to do an age verification. This 'deemed' stuff is very stretchable but fits perfectly to our case here. Cinema operators do not worry about the well-being of patrons during and after watching the movie. In analogy: why do certain people here want to hold organizers responsible for what happens during a shooting and thereafter if the person is legally not banned from joining it (be it model or photographer)?
Based on what does an organizer want to decide whether a person is "deemed to be of appropriate age"? Again, as long as there is no law prohibiting a 17 year old girl from posing for pictures no organizer can do anything here. This demand against the organizers is useless.

i'm still waiting on your reply on the "digging into personal information" you claim.

Organizers have already personal data from registration, be it only the CS nick and hp number. This is fully enough to deliver the service offered: organize a shooting. That's all.
The digging will start immediately once the next sleazy article pop up in TNG and if organizers will need to keep track of all participants. You can bet that all guys will be screened and checked in all ways. If you feel happy to be involved into such investigations then be it. But: once your name is tagged to such things it's darn difficult to get rid of the smell. Personally I prefer to stay out of this and the first thing I do is keeping my personal information undisclosed as possible - also considering the High Quality Journalism of TNG and suchlike.
The only person who has a right to know my name and more would be the model or her parents / guardian and I wouldn't mind it at all.

 

[vince123123]

I don't even know why everyone is arguing about imposing age limits when there isn't even any legal burden to do so. Unliek cigarettes or cinemas or the like, no one can, save in very exceptional circumstances, hold anyone legally liable for having a shoot with young models, photogrpahers or organisers.

 

[Octarine]

I don't even know why everyone is arguing about imposing age limits when there isn't even any legal burden to do so. Unliek cigarettes or cinemas or the like, no one can, save in very exceptional circumstances, hold anyone legally liable for having a shoot with young models, photogrpahers or organisers.

Thank you man, this cannot be said loud enough! Hope that some people get it by now and we can move on with the discussion accordingly.
Since there is no legal necessity to put something like a ban in place we can now look into the educational aspect. Which ways are there for the photographer community (CS) to focus on education about model business? Guidelines is one thing. How about workshops about the legal and financial aspects? That should provide the models with a basic knowledge package about the business they are going to enter. Also, we should not always focus on the bad aspects and raise the warning fingers about all those nasty things that could happen .. if and when .. and maybe and stuffs. Like any other job modeling also has nice aspects. Looking at some profiles in the "Services Offered" section it seems they are pretty happy being their own boss jetting around the world.