Suggesting age limit for models


Status
Not open for further replies.
I think some semblance of rationale thinking is needed right now (not that I am thinking rationally after working the whole day, but I digress).

At this point, we are in a catch-22. Either way, we are stuffed with a very weighted issue here about the age of the models and what age is suitable. Truth be told. This is no exact age. As it is models in this case can be anywhere from 3-93 years of age.

The context of this thread is in fact not about the age requirement of the model per se. It is in fact in the context of age, what are the types of photo-shoots they can do within the range. We are not talking here only in reference to nude and lingerie shoots as taken from another thread, but look at the bigger picture instead.

The problem here is that models themselves advertise for shoots on their own accord. As such the mods and admins are relying on the issue of good faith to that the model advertising himself or herself for that matter is telling the truth. That being the case, any Jack or Jill can advertise and put themselves out for a photo-shoot. To put a case in point. I am still quite hung up (that is just me) about the Lynette issue, but the reality is no one knows for sure whether Lynette is legit or not, and that will be the question till "she" herself clarifies who "she" is exactly.

Regardless of how many controls that are in place to protect models and photogs alike, there are always ways to circumvent the controls in place and as it is the weakest link is the kink in the armour. If we are talking about normal shoots, like fashion or even swimwear, I for one do not think that the issue of age will exactly come to mind. As I have seen in magazines like Teenage having swimwear spreads. As to how old those models are I am not in a position to speak.

The issue here becomes narrower in term of scope if you are talking lingerie. I will not draw in nude here, because that is another genre of photography. Lingerie is in fact part of fashion photography itself, so the OB lines are somewhat clearly marked when it comes to age.

The onus is on the organiser themselves to act in faith to not only protect the models but at the same time, protect themselves. Should the model be caught in an uncompromising situation, then it is up to the organiser to step in and render some form of control. If the shoot is a one-to-one with out the organiser's knowledge or the model engages the photog themselves or vice-versa, then the issue argument about the organiser is out of the window.

If we were to akin the mods, admins to the likes of cinema ushers, then that is quite unfair to them as the powers that they have only go up till a certain extent. Beyond that, it is the discretionary call of the organiser, if it is a group shoot; or the model themselves to shoot the pics that they want; or even the photographer to determine what it is he or she wants to do.
 

Hence, it is now nothing to do with age, just education that's all. In that case, this thread has now run its course since the first post clearly calls for a limit in age of models before they can do shoots.

By the way, there is a high chance the Lynette is a fake. I sent a test enquiry which was met with silence :).
 

There is already an enforceable code of conduct that applies in Singapore - the law as in http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/.
The Children and Young Persons Act Cap 38 lays out the age limit for various activities and employment.
If Clubsnap aims to protect itself, all it has to do is ensure all organisers are businesses registered with ACRA as being in event management, modelling agencies etc and all "models" offerring their services are registered with a bona-fide agency. The responsibility of organising the shoot or supplying models of the appropriate age will rest with the agencies etc.
 

sometimes there are no laws till 1 came about. seriously i'll just sit back till the bubble burst, then watch the very few concerned (with vested interest) people contain the fall out. :devil:

now, that seems most feaseable. :cool:
 

Care to let us know which specific sections you are relying on in the CYPA to say that models must be of a certain age before they can do shoots?

Also where there is the legal obligation for organisers to be business registered entitles, or that models must be represented by an agency?

There is already an enforceable code of conduct that applies in Singapore - the law as in http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/.
The Children and Young Persons Act Cap 38 lays out the age limit for various activities and employment.
If Clubsnap aims to protect itself, all it has to do is ensure all organisers are businesses registered with ACRA as being in event management, modelling agencies etc and all "models" offerring their services are registered with a bona-fide agency. The responsibility of organising the shoot or supplying models of the appropriate age will rest with the agencies etc.
 

Care to let us know which specific sections you are relying on in the CYPA to say that models must be of a certain age before they can do shoots?
I think you misunderstood. Not referring to age of models to do shoots. I don't think there is a minimum age nor does that make sense to have. However, as far as concern about exploitation of "underage" models, Section 7 may apply. It states

"Sexual exploitation of child or young person
7. Any person who, in public or private —

(a) commits or abets the commission of or procures or attempts to procure the commission by any person of any obscene or indecent act with any child or young person; or

(b) procures or attempts to procure the commission of any obscene or indecent act by any child or young person,

shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $5,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years or to both and, in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, to a fine not exceeding $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 4 years or to both"

Also where there is the legal obligation for organisers to be business registered entitles, or that models must be represented by an agency?
I never said that organisers are required by law to be legally registered entities. What I am suggesting is that Clubsnap can protect itself by only allowing organisers which are registered as relevant businesses (or companies) to organise shoots through its forums. Why not pass the responsibility to those who are doing the business and who should be familiar with the legal aspects. Not saying that individuals will not but a proper business organisation will be more likely to comply with the law.
A bonus will be participants will then also have recourse to recovering from organisers who collect down-payment and not fulfill their obligation to have the shoot. Also, allowing only bona-fide businesses may result in an improvement in standards.
 

Last edited:
sometimes there are no laws till 1 came about. seriously i'll just sit back till the bubble burst, then watch the very few concerned (with vested interest) people contain the fall out. :devil:

It is the nature of laws to be one step behind. It needs a first occasion or a strong public concern so that the lawmakers (depending on the political system of the country) formulate and pass the respective law. Laws usually don't come as 'preventive measure', it would require a huge amount of crystal balls or other things to pass bills before the first crime is committed. A good example are all the offenses around usage of Internet (copyright, downloads etc). It is a challenge for courts and judges to apply existing laws to Internet cases and sometimes laws need to be ammended in order to include new cases and situations.
 

In that case, it is only sexual exploitation that we are concerned about. Hence, if anything, only THAT should have any age limit imposed. Not a blanket limitation on ALL shoots on ALL models in CS.

Then again, if we are talking about asking people do to indecent or obscene acts, I do not believe that CS will sanction it even if there's a age limit. CS will not allow indecent acts even if the model is overaged. Hence, once again, the age limit is redundant.

On the business registered entity, what does CS need to protect itself against? There is not going to be any censure or legal liabiliyt on CS just because it allows non-registered business entitles to be organisers here. It is fine and nice to say CS should protect itself, but the question is, protect from what? There is nothing to protect against!

Also, a business entity does not mean it understands legal aspects - anyone can just pay less than 100 bucks and register a business entity. Hence, this requirement does nothing other than to create entry barriers.

Having a business registered entity also does not mean there is recourse to recover down-payment. There is no difference between a business entity and an indivdual as far as recovering is concerned.

I think you misunderstood. Not referring to age of models to do shoots. I don't think there is a minimum age nor does that make sense to have. However, as far as concern about exploitation of "underage" models, Section 7 may apply. It states

"Sexual exploitation of child or young person
7. Any person who, in public or private —

(a) commits or abets the commission of or procures or attempts to procure the commission by any person of any obscene or indecent act with any child or young person; or

(b) procures or attempts to procure the commission of any obscene or indecent act by any child or young person,

shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $5,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years or to both and, in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, to a fine not exceeding $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 4 years or to both"

I never said that organisers are required by law to be legally registered entities. What I am suggesting is that Clubsnap can protect itself by only allowing organisers which are registered as relevant businesses (or companies) to organise shoots through its forums. Why not pass the responsibility to those who are doing the business and who should be familiar with the legal aspects. Not saying that individuals will not but a proper business organisation will be more likely to comply with the law.
A bonus will be participants will then also have recourse to recovering from organisers who collect down-payment and not fulfill their obligation to have the shoot. Also, allowing only bona-fide businesses may result in an improvement in standards.
 

Until there is any laws, nothing needs to be done. Almost all laws enacted are not retrospective, meaning once it comes out, people can just stop doing whatever it prohibits and not get into any elgal trouble.

Hence, I'm not sure what bubble bursting there will be, nor what fall out needs to be contained.

sometimes there are no laws till 1 came about. seriously i'll just sit back till the bubble burst, then watch the very few concerned (with vested interest) people contain the fall out. :devil:

now, that seems most feaseable. :cool:
 

In that case, it is only sexual exploitation that we are concerned about. Hence, if anything, only THAT should have any age limit imposed. Not a blanket limitation on ALL shoots on ALL models in CS.

Then again, if we are talking about asking people do to indecent or obscene acts, I do not believe that CS will sanction it even if there's a age limit. CS will not allow indecent acts even if the model is overaged. Hence, once again, the age limit is redundant.

On the business registered entity, what does CS need to protect itself against? There is not going to be any censure or legal liabiliyt on CS just because it allows non-registered business entitles to be organisers here. It is fine and nice to say CS should protect itself, but the question is, protect from what? There is nothing to protect against!
How would you interpret "abets the commission of"? Does providing the connection not implicate CS? Also how would you interpret Sections 6 and 11 of the said act? What about public opinion if one of the organisers is found to have committed an offence?
 

I think you misunderstood. Not referring to age of models to do shoots. I don't think there is a minimum age nor does that make sense to have. However, as far as concern about exploitation of "underage" models, Section 7 may apply. It states

"Sexual exploitation of child or young person
7. Any person who, in public or private —

(a) commits or abets the commission of or procures or attempts to procure the commission by any person of any obscene or indecent act with any child or young person; or

(b) procures or attempts to procure the commission of any obscene or indecent act by any child or young person,

shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $5,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years or to both and, in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, to a fine not exceeding $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 4 years or to both"

I never said that organisers are required by law to be legally registered entities. What I am suggesting is that Clubsnap can protect itself by only allowing organisers which are registered as relevant businesses (or companies) to organise shoots through its forums. Why not pass the responsibility to those who are doing the business and who should be familiar with the legal aspects. Not saying that individuals will not but a proper business organisation will be more likely to comply with the law.
A bonus will be participants will then also have recourse to recovering from organisers who collect down-payment and not fulfill their obligation to have the shoot. Also, allowing only bona-fide businesses may result in an improvement in standards.


I think as for the above statement, if you are referring to modelling agencies of which I am assuming you are, then, the case here will be CS has to pay them to advertise here rather than the other way round. Agencies like Looque, Maneqquin, Diva do not need advertisements. They have their own steady stream of clients. Why will they need CS then? The case here is if someone in CS gets hold of a model like most recently in the photoshoot section, Celestina who belongs to Diva, this is in the private capacity of who is organising the shoot as these models are infact available for private bookings.

How would you interpret "abets the commission of"? Does providing the connection not implicate CS? Also how would you interpret Sections 6 and 11 of the said act? What about public opinion if one of the organisers is found to have committed an offence?

In the case of section 7, it refers to sexual misconduct. Section 6 refers to a deliquent act raised and committed by a minor or a young person as directed by another person. Section 11 here may hold some ground, but the issue here is public entertainment and it must fall within the context of the section. If the organiser is found to have committed an offence, sad to say, ignorance of the law is not an excuse that is why, the onus is on the organiser to control and screen. Not CS.
 

Minimum age requirement for a child to be hired is 14. So 14 it is. I don't understand why people bring up issues like legal age for consensual sex or death sentence; we're not shooting pornos or snuff films. 14 is the minimum working age, models included I suppose. Whether inappropriate or not is up to the model himself/herself.
 

I think as for the above statement, if you are referring to modelling agencies of which I am assuming you are, then, the case here will be CS has to pay them to advertise here rather than the other way round. Agencies like Looque, Maneqquin, Diva do not need advertisements. They have their own steady stream of clients. Why will they need CS then? The case here is if someone in CS gets hold of a model like most recently in the photoshoot section, Celestina who belongs to Diva, this is in the private capacity of who is organising the shoot as these models are infact available for private bookings.

not to burst your bubble but if they dun need to advertize then please explain to me why they have ads on jobsdb.com?
 

Eh, care to share which legislation and section you are referring to so that we can consider and discuss this further?

Minimum age requirement for a child to be hired is 14. So 14 it is. I don't understand why people bring up issues like legal age for consensual sex or death sentence; we're not shooting pornos or snuff films. 14 is the minimum working age, models included I suppose. Whether inappropriate or not is up to the model himself/herself.
 

i really dont think there is a need to specify an age for the model to participate in the photo shoots. it is more the responsibility of the photographers themselves to use their brains and seriously consider before agreeing to take part in the shoots. if they think it is right and see no wrong in conducting such photo shoots then so be it. i feel the TS concern abt enforcing a certain age limit on the models but then again it takes two hands to clap. if there is a demand for such models or so called underage models then the supply will come. No point trying to enforce such age limit cause in the end they will find a way ard the rules then the rule will be deemed useless.
 

Just forget I ever asked
 

I'll get back to you. I heard of it when they passed that bill a few years back because macs has been hiring underaged kids.

Think you are referring to the Employment Act (see Part VIII) read with Employment (Children and Young Persons) Regulations, regulation 3 which states that:

3. Subject to section 68 (2) of the Act, no child who is below the age of 13 years shall be employed in any occupation.

Generally, the prohibition is against the employment of someone below 13 years of age. Those 13 and above may be employed, subject to some conditions.
 

Last edited:
Think you are referring to the Employment Act (see Part VIII) read with Employment (Children and Young Persons) Regulations, regulation 3 which states that:

3. Subject to section 68 (2) of the Act, no child who is below the age of 13 years shall be employed in any occupation.

Generally, the prohibition is against the employment of someone below 13 years of age. Those 13 and above may be employed, subject to some conditions.

well the loop hole around this is that technically modeling is not considered a job by our government. NEXT!
 

To be more exact, I will say that modelling is not likely to be considered "employment".
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top