CYRN
Senior Member
Ah then its not so much a law, but more a practice or suggested guideline
yeah... that's my point. :thumbsup:
juz some form of understanding in b&w. and hopefully minimize getting into regrettable situation.
Suggesting age limit for models
- Thread starter redstone
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yeah... that's my point. :thumbsup:
juz some form of understanding in b&w. and hopefully minimize getting into regrettable situation.
V
vince123123
Guest
I'm just referring to laws. As for whether shoots are healthy or not, well that's for individual interpretation
true about the laws on age part. but where healthy modelling is concerned, far from true. :sweatsm: for if it was & is healthy, there would not be a slew of spinoff topics on this.
i guess i did OT abit as i was replying to an issue on moral issues by a fellow CSer.
Then create a subforum for modeling services that requires additional subscription before posting. The subscription can only be activated via email. You create an email full of disclaimers, guidelines, warnings and whatnot and send it out to those who apply for that section. Only upon positive confirmation by the model you'll grant the permissions to post there. Since this requires more thinking than just clicking a check box for "Yes, I have read the T&C" it should create the necessary awareness. If not, then even the best intention for protection will fail anyway.
In addition, there should be a feedback section for models and participants of photoshootings.
I think this is a very good suggestion. I do not mind writing the T&C for the models as a contribution to club snap, I can also ask for feedback from people in the modelling industry and see how we can implement it in the context of CS. I am very interested in helping out.
I don't think age limit is the key to solving this issue, I feel that the models need to be educated about their rights before stepping into the industry so they have a clearer picture what they are in for.
age is not the key issue, but does have some legal implications on local laws. therefore should be one of the several considerations.
Speaking of which, it would be great that when they sign up on the model forum they would need an electronic signature to certify that they are 16 years and above. If possible, they would need to scan a copy of their IC if possible (just a wild idea, but it will create more paper work).
Although we cannot stop those from below 16 from signing up on an online platform, members can alert the moderators by waving a red flag to the moderators that the girl is under 16 and her access to the model forum will be removed.
TheQuestion
New Member
problem is how many people actually bother reading the whole fine print of the tnc?
Do you have any idea what you are talking about in terms of a) organization, b) legal implications and c) costs?
CS is legally not entitled to ask for IC copies or anything else. Electronic signatures require certain IT infrastructure that doesn't come cheap. Usually it's used together with credit cards - which are not available to people of 16. So it doesn't work. And talking about scanned copies in a forum for digital media (including editing) is .. somewhat amusing. Beside this: I know that some copy machines and scanners recognize passports, IC's and money notes and will either refuse to scan them or will alter the image to render it useless.
As much as I can understand your intention - but please don't forget to make a reality check.
TheQuestion
New Member
i think u should realize for a while already; reality has taken a leave of absence in her suggestions.
CYRN
Senior Member
CYRN
Senior Member
This should be the way to go. :thumbsup:... begin with what "I" can do... not "you must follow".
Why not give it a go and post here for comments.
scandal599
Deregistered
Dunno when it will end. Not only is the idea wild, the leagal implications of it will cause an uproar and every single person here will get hit.
Understand this: CS is in itself not a legal entity. Likewise I believe most of the shoot organisers here are themselves are not legal entities, UNLESS they 1) own a modelling agency or 2) they are a partner of a modelling agency. As far as that goes, the legal implications on retaining such information onsite like CS or even being kept by the mods and admins, esp private and confidential information without legal right will raise questions that no one will know how to answer. Modelling agencies have the right to hold such info as they are legal entities and this information for them is IP.
What the shoot organiser in CS holds is up to them, but I am pretty sure they do not contain private and confidential information. At best, age and contact number. As for model ports, I believe so as well that they hold. But that is arranged bewteen them and the organiser.
Electronic signature in this case is akin to signing a contract. Understand as well: anybody under the age of 16 is NOT eligible to sign a contract in under any circumstances. If anybody should sign, it is the guardian or parent of the person involved. If we allow such an act, the model (guy or girl) may disavow any liability based on the sole fact that he/she is not legally permitted to sign anything in relation to a memo of understanding (even though legally that may not be binding) let alone a contract.
scandal599
Deregistered
In fact I second that. With a comprehensive T&C for models, it serves as a guide. But as far as age is a concerned here, one has to be mindful. Once the model, if underage accpets, there can be a backlash. So while I am up for it, the T&C must be worded in a way to protect both the model and the photog.
synapseman
Senior Member
Just wondering: Will having a signed parental consent form absolve the photographer and/or CS if somehow things turn ugly?
I don't really photograph models, but I guess when I do, I'll just state in my post for e.g. Looking for models aged 21 y.o. and above.
I'm not a model, so I can only give the photographer's POV. I'm all for some sort of regulation, but at the end of it all, the onus is still upon the photographer to take all necessary precautions to avoid trouble in the first place, because although we can have age requirements and parental consent forms, not all models want their parents to be aware of what they are doing, so they might (probably?) actually lie about their background, just like the way some people get away with entering clubs, buying cigs and watching R(A) movies.
If you're a model? My suggestion would be similar in the sense of taking commonsense precautions to protect yourself. Do homework, check portfolio, CS postings, bring a friend along etc.
Guidelines and policies take time to form. Are we going to wait for that, and rely on other people telling us what to do to protect ourselves? Truth be told, I got no brilliant ideas as how to regulate this industry, other than urging both sides to "be careful". Oftentimes, when trouble happens, it is because someone overlooked something, and thus became more or less, "asking for it".
I don't really photograph models, but I guess when I do, I'll just state in my post for e.g. Looking for models aged 21 y.o. and above.
I'm not a model, so I can only give the photographer's POV. I'm all for some sort of regulation, but at the end of it all, the onus is still upon the photographer to take all necessary precautions to avoid trouble in the first place, because although we can have age requirements and parental consent forms, not all models want their parents to be aware of what they are doing, so they might (probably?) actually lie about their background, just like the way some people get away with entering clubs, buying cigs and watching R(A) movies.
If you're a model? My suggestion would be similar in the sense of taking commonsense precautions to protect yourself. Do homework, check portfolio, CS postings, bring a friend along etc.
Guidelines and policies take time to form. Are we going to wait for that, and rely on other people telling us what to do to protect ourselves? Truth be told, I got no brilliant ideas as how to regulate this industry, other than urging both sides to "be careful". Oftentimes, when trouble happens, it is because someone overlooked something, and thus became more or less, "asking for it".
TheQuestion
New Member
lol consent form...machiam like sec and primary school again.
V
vince123123
Guest
A very brief OT, but many people don't know that consent forms do not protect against liability for negligence resulting in personal injury. A lot of those sec and pri school forms that parents sign actually have limited or no legal effect 
So lets say if the electronic signature is cannot be applied and there is no way we can verify the age of the models, I think the terms and conditions (actually I would rather it be named "Guidelines for Aspiring Models" that must be read before they sign up) should be created in a way that educates them on what to expect when they step into the industry.
Some of these models nowadays have very wrong expectations that shouldn't be the case. By setting their expectations in the right direction, they would make better decisions regarding their modelling career.
Some of these models nowadays have very wrong expectations that shouldn't be the case. By setting their expectations in the right direction, they would make better decisions regarding their modelling career.
TheQuestion
New Member
what career? most of the ones who advertize here to model are NOT career models and will never be career models because they don't have what it takes to be bonafide models. I use you as the most glaring and obvious example of this.
scandal599
Deregistered
Way to go :thumbsup:
Now we are talking. As it is the signature issue is sensitive in nature and T&C in itself actually prescribes to a contractual basis of sorts. It is like before you sign up for a credit card, the terms and conditions is given to person. Once he signs on the dotted line, that means you agree. A guideline will serve to help and for them to gain an understanding so I second that. As far as to whether or not they agree and want to move into the forum partake in shoots as an organised form, them it is up to the org to set the ground rules. If a photog engages them, they cannot claim liability on CS for not forewarning them as we have already done so by giving the guidelines to them and what to look out for.
In this respect, I second the implementation of the guide.
In this respect, I second the implementation of the guide.
The guide is already there, needs further development. But as 'TheQuestion' has pointed out: How many people read it finally? Every day one can see examples of people ignoring existing information and guidelines here in CS
That's why I had the idea of an additional subscription where the subscriber needs to actively reply to an email, similar to many email lists. Only upon this active confirmation the person gets access. The response can be kept in an archive and can serve as basis for any discussions later. That's the maximum what I can think of considering the legal and organizational aspects. Secondly, as already mentioned earlier (either here on in the other hot threads): AverRal can get the moderator role and start advocating her way. Many gals might be thankful but in return she'll get more exposure to the business. This will help her to check ideas against reality.
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