Smaller sensors?

[edutilos-]

Hihi, I am a newbie who just joined this huge family in CS not long ago. I am not sure what my sony nex sensor is, but my friend say that it is a bigger sensor then the micro four thirds that I always thought it is as it looks like the Olympus pen that I initially want to get. Also I wonder why there are different size in sensor, but from all reviews in other threads, it seems bigger sensor is always preferred (Somehow I am glad that my camera isn't a micro four thirds). I wonder if on what base can the small sensors can be compared to the bigger format when the camera are of the same size?:dunno:

Hi, Sony NEX uses what is known as APS-C size sensor.

Read up more here: http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/sensor_sizes_01.htm

APS-C size is 28.4mm diagonally. Micro 4/3 uses 22.5mm diagonal size.

There is a full frame format that is even larger than APS-C.

Big sensors are touted to have these benefits:

1) Better Dynamic Range (google please, if you don't know what this is)
2) Better Detail
3) Better control of Depth of Field
4) Better Noise Control

However, they cost more (exponential), weigh more, and require better glass (lenses) to maximize potential. The associated accessories such as filters such as GND, etc for landscape would probably cost more as well.

One personal point that I could highlight is that none of the brands with FF have produced a ultra-wide lens that can both use filters for landscape and is corrected well for barrel distortion. On the other hand, ultra-wide angle lenses for APS-C are quite well corrected.

My personal feel is that as a hobbyist, most people do not need FF cameras. Between APS-C and Micro 4/3 or 4/3, it's just a toss up of personal preference, to me the images at web size look the same given good skills and know-how.

 

[henry soh]

It is OK with me. Some people don't mean what they say and say what they don't mean. So, there are all sorts of people in this world of ours. Only important factor is how you take it and be considerate of others.
So long as it is a mistake, we can accept, but without intention to hurt others. If we continue to hurt each other, it will be like a game of ping-pong ball.

 

[loneWolff]

It is OK with me. Some people don't mean what they say and say what they don't mean. So, there are all sorts of people in this world of ours. Only important factor is how you take it and be considerate of others.
So long as it is a mistake, we can accept, but without intention to hurt others. If we continue to hurt each other, it will be like a game of ping-pong ball.

Yeah, make love not war! (If you are a female... else then it is only brotherly love for you hoh ;p)

 

[Oly5050]

Hi, Sony NEX uses what is known as APS-C size sensor.

Read up more here: http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/sensor_sizes_01.htm

APS-C size is 28.4mm diagonally. Micro 4/3 uses 22.5mm diagonal size.

There is a full frame format that is even larger than APS-C.

Big sensors are touted to have these benefits:

1) Better Dynamic Range (google please, if you don't know what this is)
2) Better Detail
3) Better control of Depth of Field
4) Better Noise Control

However, they cost more (exponential), weigh more, and require better glass (lenses) to maximize potential. The associated accessories such as filters such as GND, etc for landscape would probably cost more as well.

One personal point that I could highlight is that none of the brands with FF have produced a ultra-wide lens that can both use filters for landscape and is corrected well for barrel distortion. On the other hand, ultra-wide angle lenses for APS-C are quite well corrected.

My personal feel is that as a hobbyist, most people do not need FF cameras. Between APS-C and Micro 4/3 or 4/3, it's just a toss up of personal preference, to me the images at web size look the same given good skills and know-how.

Im not sure of better detail. I thought that a more major factor here is the lens resolution that gives u detail.

 

[spidey89]

Details I believe depends on what details you're talking about, resolution details? Depends on lens as well as resolution on sensor, if talking about shadow and highlight details that would be dynamic range, details also can be noise reduction kind of details

 

[headfonz]

Im not sure of better detail. I thought that a more major factor here is the lens resolution that gives u detail.

it works both ways, both lens and sensor size are important in resolving detail.

a simplistic explanation is using brushes and canvas.

a good lens is like a fine painter's brush, able to paint in finer strokes with more detail. the sensor is like a canvas, a larger canvas will allow more space for the painter to paint.

so even if the painter has a thicker brush, he can paint with the same detail on a large canvas like a painter with a fine brush on a smaller canvas. the same fine brush on the same large canvas will produce results that is more detailed than the previous two examples.

between 4/3 and APS-C sensor sizes, figuratively speaking, is like comparing A4 to B4 paper sizes. there is an advantage for APS-C in size, but not alot.

between 4/3 and 35mm FF sensor sizes, is like comparing A4 to A3 paper sizes where the advantage is clear.

the quality and technology of the various sensor types are not discussed here.

 

[aryanto]

Hihi, I am a newbie who just joined this huge family in CS not long ago.

Rubbishbin1987... I wonder why 87, same last 2 digit with the some boy who are posting lots of comparision question between m43 & sony nex :devil:

I am not sure what my sony nex sensor is, but my friend say that it is a bigger sensor then the micro four thirds that I always thought it is as it looks like the Olympus pen that I initially want to get.

so does it make you a better photographer? if yes then good for you :thumbsup:

Also I wonder why there are different size in sensor, but from all reviews in other threads, it seems bigger sensor is always preferred (Somehow I am glad that my camera isn't a micro four thirds).

tsk tsk... posting this in 4/3 sub forum. gloat all you want at sony sub forum. I consider this a flame bait. :thumbsd:

I wonder if on what base can the small sensors can be compared to the bigger format when the camera are of the same size?:dunno:

give me your sony nex. I got screw drivers here. Failing that there is golden hammer. Lets open it up and I can show you the sensor size. :lovegrin:

 

[Anthony Lee]

it works both ways, both lens and sensor size are important in resolving detail.

a simplistic explanation is using brushes and canvas.

a good lens is like a fine painter's brush, able to paint in finer strokes with more detail. the sensor is like a canvas, a larger canvas will allow more space for the painter to paint.

so even if the painter has a thicker brush, he can paint with the same detail on a large canvas like a painter with a fine brush on a smaller canvas. the same fine brush on the same large canvas will produce results that is more detailed than the previous two examples.

between 4/3 and APS-C sensor sizes, figuratively speaking, is like comparing A4 to B4 paper sizes. there is an advantage for APS-C in size, but not alot.

between 4/3 and 35mm FF sensor sizes, is like comparing A4 to A3 paper sizes where the advantage is clear.

the quality and technology of the various sensor types are not discussed here.

Excellent explanation.

 

[RubbishBin1987]

I am a bit lost, I will read up more on sensor size especially the APS-C sensor size that you all mentioned. But I am confused that since the APS-C sensor mentioned has much more benefits (Sorry, but I don't think the zoom is a benefit since it is a cut off) and the cost of the Nex 3 is quite the same or lower then the Olympus Pen E-P2 (I did my research on pricing when choosing last time) why does people still get so interested in the system? Sorry if I offended some Olympus or micro 4/3 fan, I am just posting out of curiosity when reading the thread.

 

[daniel-sg]

I am a bit lost, I will read up more on sensor size especially the APS-C sensor size that you all mentioned. But I am confused that since the APS-C sensor mentioned has much more benefits (Sorry, but I don't think the zoom is a benefit since it is a cut off) and the cost of the Nex 3 is quite the same or lower then the Olympus Pen E-P2 (I did my research on pricing when choosing last time) why does people still get so interested in the system? Sorry if I offended some Olympus or micro 4/3 fan, I am just posting out of curiosity when reading the thread.

It would be confusing if you're just buying a sensor. But you're buying a whole camera and a system of lenses/flashes to go with it.
For example some people would still buy EP-2 because they like certain lenses in the m4/3 setup or they like the funky EVF accessories.
So a direct comparison of sensor/price vs sensor/price is always entirely correct.

 

[edutilos-]

Details I believe depends on what details you're talking about, resolution details? Depends on lens as well as resolution on sensor, if talking about shadow and highlight details that would be dynamic range, details also can be noise reduction kind of details

All things being equal, given that the sensor is not the limiting factor, larger sensor will be able to resolve more detail. By right. Of course, with improvements in technology, this may not be true tomorrow - but it is still true today.

 

[edutilos-]

Rubbishbin1987... I wonder why 87, same last 2 digit with the some boy who are posting lots of comparision question between m43 & sony nex :devil:


so does it make you a better photographer? if yes then good for you :thumbsup:


tsk tsk... posting this in 4/3 sub forum. gloat all you want at sony sub forum. I consider this a flame bait. :thumbsd:


give me your sony nex. I got screw drivers here. Failing that there is golden hammer. Lets open it up and I can show you the sensor size. :lovegrin:

So how does replying to what is perceived as a silly question with:

1) Statements that attack TS on age
2) Statements that question TS photographic skill
3) Statements that question TS choice of camera
4) Statements that describe a painful operation on TS camera

Help anything? :think: I think you can point out nicely that perhaps, his question is not all that straightforward and perhaps he is barking up the wrong tree. I won't disagree with you if you said that. There is no real need to over-react, if you ask me. Perhaps it is a genuine question that TS really wants to find more about. Of course, he could read up himself. Cheers.

 

[pchmj]

I am a bit lost, I will read up more on sensor size especially the APS-C sensor size that you all mentioned. But I am confused that since the APS-C sensor mentioned has much more benefits (Sorry, but I don't think the zoom is a benefit since it is a cut off) and the cost of the Nex 3 is quite the same or lower then the Olympus Pen E-P2 (I did my research on pricing when choosing last time) why does people still get so interested in the system? Sorry if I offended some Olympus or micro 4/3 fan, I am just posting out of curiosity when reading the thread.

No offense, good to clear doubts.

A camera is more than just sensor size alone, just like a car is more than just cc.
APS-C cameras can range from $700 to $1500, even for the same brand, price can varies greatly between models with the same sensor size. And with the same brand same sensor size, can still have performance difference.

The features, the built, the way camera is configured play important roles.
No point putting a 4L V8 engine in a chery QQ. You need a solid body, good suspension, good gearbox, good tires to go with it.

The pros and cons of sony nex and m4/3, has been discussed to death.

 

[spidey89]

I am a bit lost, I will read up more on sensor size especially the APS-C sensor size that you all mentioned. But I am confused that since the APS-C sensor mentioned has much more benefits (Sorry, but I don't think the zoom is a benefit since it is a cut off) and the cost of the Nex 3 is quite the same or lower then the Olympus Pen E-P2 (I did my research on pricing when choosing last time) why does people still get so interested in the system? Sorry if I offended some Olympus or micro 4/3 fan, I am just posting out of curiosity when reading the thread.

No worries, no need to apologize, if the question is genuine

All things being equal, given that the sensor is not the limiting factor, larger sensor will be able to resolve more detail. By right. Of course, with improvements in technology, this may not be true tomorrow - but it is still true today.

Point taken, I agree, if 2 models only diff is one thing inside it, it is more or less the deal breaker between the 2 in performance but this kind of thing, its always improving so most important is to be content with what we have, wouldn't you agree my dear friend?

 

[RubbishBin1987]

Rubbishbin1987... I wonder why 87, same last 2 digit with the some boy who are posting lots of comparision question between m43 & sony nex :devil:


so does it make you a better photographer? if yes then good for you :thumbsup:


tsk tsk... posting this in 4/3 sub forum. gloat all you want at sony sub forum. I consider this a flame bait. :thumbsd:


give me your sony nex. I got screw drivers here. Failing that there is golden hammer. Lets open it up and I can show you the sensor size. :lovegrin:

Sorry about making you unhappy when comparing between cameras. I am born on 1987, so I added 1987 behind my nick. I am not sure of similar questions posted but I am asking about sensor size because when I initially buy it, I thought my Nex is a micro 4/3 sensor. So I decided to post this in this sub forum to ask about it. I don't think it makes me a better photographer. But asking about different gears and knowing difference and their technical specs does helps me in making better photos when I know how to apply them to my advantage. If you consider it a flame bait, I cannot change your idea, but I do can close thread if you PM me to close it.:cry:

 

[edutilos-]

Point taken, I agree, if 2 models only diff is one thing inside it, it is more or less the deal breaker between the 2 in performance but this kind of thing, its always improving so most important is to be content with what we have, wouldn't you agree my dear friend?

Yes, TS wanted answer to question; though my suggestion is to care less about such things, and concentrate more on what photography should be about (from my view).

I always stress, as hobbyists, it is nothing wrong to spend money on equipment, to want to have better gear - but I would like to think that most people are rational and would only spend on things that they can maximize.

I am a person who is not willing to spend too much on equipment, so I'm stuck with my entry level DSLR today. Could I afford to buy something like a D3X? Why not, just empty my savings. But I really don't think it is required, especially since I don't earn a living from it.

 

[casey4355]

I think if u go to olympus service center, plenty to very nice A3 prints on the wall.
Lou Manna even made an 18 foot billboard from 5 MP olympus camera via some software e.g. perfect resize from Onone.

 

[spidey89]

Yes, TS wanted answer to question; though my suggestion is to care less about such things, and concentrate more on what photography should be about (from my view).

I always stress, as hobbyists, it is nothing wrong to spend money on equipment, to want to have better gear - but I would like to think that most people are rational and would only spend on things that they can maximize.

I am a person who is not willing to spend too much on equipment, so I'm stuck with my entry level DSLR today. Could I afford to buy something like a D3X? Why not, just empty my savings. But I really don't think it is required, especially since I don't earn a living from it.

You actually use D3x as an example? I'd use a D3 :bsmilie: but I agree with what you say

 

[loneWolff]

I am a bit lost, I will read up more on sensor size especially the APS-C sensor size that you all mentioned. But I am confused that since the APS-C sensor mentioned has much more benefits (Sorry, but I don't think the zoom is a benefit since it is a cut off) and the cost of the Nex 3 is quite the same or lower then the Olympus Pen E-P2 (I did my research on pricing when choosing last time) why does people still get so interested in the system? Sorry if I offended some Olympus or micro 4/3 fan, I am just posting out of curiosity when reading the thread.

RubbishBin1987, I think you have not heard the joke I always tell the m43 people.
My friend is the photographer who shot the printed advertisement for NEX, he insisted that Sony let him use the HG lens as the NEX lens cannot achieve the result that Sony requested.
NEX is a good camera and it needs better lens, you will just have to wait a while more as NEX is Sony's solution to filling up the gap that m43 created.

Sorry about making you unhappy when comparing between cameras. I am born on 1987, so I added 1987 behind my nick. I am not sure of similar questions posted but I am asking about sensor size because when I initially buy it, I thought my Nex is a micro 4/3 sensor. So I decided to post this in this sub forum to ask about it. I don't think it makes me a better photographer. But asking about different gears and knowing difference and their technical specs does helps me in making better photos when I know how to apply them to my advantage. If you consider it a flame bait, I cannot change your idea, but I do can close thread if you PM me to close it.

Don't bother closing the thread, another user87 will just appear and create another NEX is better than m43 posting here.
Don't worry, nobody here will bother to check IP address for duplicate accounts.
We got better things to do like photography, so are you starting to like us enough to convert to m43.
The people over at the Sony forum might be nicer to you when you post similar questions there like, NEX has m43 sensors.

So how does replying to what is perceived as a silly question with:

1) Statements that attack TS on age
2) Statements that question TS photographic skill
3) Statements that question TS choice of camera
4) Statements that describe a painful operation on TS camera

Help anything? I think you can point out nicely that perhaps, his question is not all that straightforward and perhaps he is barking up the wrong tree. I won't disagree with you if you said that. There is no real need to over-react, if you ask me. Perhaps it is a genuine question that TS really wants to find more about. Of course, he could read up himself. Cheers.

edutilos-, I can see you are heating up too but cool down bro.
The guys are riled as this subforum has been constantly flamed by user87s who ask questions leading up to the same statement of NEX is better than m43.
So everyone is tired that user87 is keeping saying the same thing over and over again like a broken record player.
If you take note of the way both user87 write, you will notice the similarities so you can't blame them lah.

Rubbishbin1987... I wonder why 87, same last 2 digit with the some boy who are posting lots of comparision question between m43 & sony nex

so does it make you a better photographer? if yes then good for you

tsk tsk... posting this in 4/3 sub forum. gloat all you want at sony sub forum. I consider this a flame bait.

give me your sony nex. I got screw drivers here. Failing that there is golden hammer. Lets open it up and I can show you the sensor size.

aryanto, I know you have better things to do then do the MC Hammer dance.
So please don't take out your bling bling leh, its blinding me.
Of course if he offers you his NEX let me know, I got soldering iron, mini drill, etching acid to assist in your demostration.
TELL ME IN ADVANCE HOH, else I will forever be upset with you for making me miss this chance.

 

[edutilos-]

You actually use D3x as an example? I'd use a D3 :bsmilie: but I agree with what you say

In my context, D3X tends to be catered to landscape shooters, that is my understanding. But then again, I'm no expert when it comes to flagship models and higher-end gears..