SLCC SHoot

[Divine_Monk]

i agree to a certain extent , and yes , i am referring to the photog. not that you are wrong . it the responsiblity of the photographer to look out for every little details down to the makeup, hair. In a way, many will only blame others ( model lah , mua or lighting ) but the photog. They neglect that he / she is the one responsible for the final image. I may be bringing this to a profession level bit too much and too demand. you can say that i am a control freak in this area.. eveyone has a style , you have a style also.

Peace

I have no qualms of being wrong. Through each mistake, I become stronger.

The model is a subject, just like the woman on the street of cambodia smoking weed is a model. There is no make up on her except for mud. The photographer must know exactly what to take in order to bring out the best in the subject.

The same for models on the fashion runway. You might not agree with the M.A.C team but if you have been in the box with 50 or 100 other photographers, you can try to be a control freak but you aren't going to control much.

Maybe you can explain your style that would be nice.

Confuse.... being in control means being professional. Must be the late nights and the noise...... can't think very well now....

Again, that is just what I feel. Nothing personal.

World peace would be nice.... no more fighting in Isreal.


cheerios.

 

[christie_lysmf]

i agree to a certain extent , and yes , i am referring to the photog. not that you are wrong . it the responsiblity of the photographer to look out for every little details down to the makeup, hair. In a way, many will only blame others ( model lah , mua or lighting ) but the photog. They neglect that he / she is the one responsible for the final image. I may be bringing this to a profession level bit too much and too demand. you can say that i am a control freak in this area.. eveyone has a style , you have a style also.

Peace

Actually hor, I thought that the photog has to create a good photo regardless of the mua,model or lighting. if shoot halfway then studio light spoil but must submit to clt tmr, then how? blame everyone? or if u go to Grd Zero with rubble everywhere, then hw? try telling editor "sorry boss! no light! no mua! no model (?) cannot submit photo!" or better still, models are all dead (literally), then hw?

I always thot photog actually have little say- those who are professional with wires etc will know. you just shoot the bloody photo, then see what you can use. if u wanna fight with the entire team bec of your control, wa lau, photoshoot will never finish, then deadline hw?

ho sim la.. your style of profession is only limited to techs, might as well be camera asst. dun degrade and insult e solid, true profession. also i recomm u go study the word 'photography' again. think abt its meaning. tolong!

 

[Deadpoet]

Actually hor, I thought that the photog has to create a good photo regardless of the mua,model or lighting. if shoot halfway then studio light spoil but must submit to clt tmr, then how? blame everyone? or if u go to Grd Zero with rubble everywhere, then hw? try telling editor "sorry boss! no light! no mua! no model (?) cannot submit photo!" or better still, models are all dead (literally), then hw?

You are about the worse of all, full of sh*t.

I agree, the photographer is ultimately in control during the shoot, however, a photorapher can only do so much. Lights spoiled, and you are shooting fashion indoors, well tough sh*t, shoot has to delay. Without lights, there is no photography. Likewise, a lousy make up job, means a lousy image, there again, photography can only so so much.

Your analogy of ground zero and rubbles is totally irrevelent, thus also making your arguement irrevelent. War photographers are different breed compare to fashion photographers, who in turn are different to, say, sports photographers. Using a ground zero senario for a fashion photographer, only you can think of somthing like that!

I always thot photog actually have little say- those who are professional with wires etc will know. you just shoot the bloody photo, then see what you can use. if u wanna fight with the entire team bec of your control, wa lau, photoshoot will never finish, then deadline hw?

ho sim la.. your style of profession is only limited to techs, might as well be camera asst. dun degrade and insult e solid, true profession. also i recomm u go study the word 'photography' again. think abt its meaning. tolong!

Again, you are in a forum discussing portrait photography. Since when did the news wires send their photographer out to a model shoot. Photojournalists and portrait photographers are so different, they might as well come from different planets. Their only thing in comon is a camera, and yet, you want to comapre the two. Nice try.

And paraphrasing you comments, ho sim la, think before you write!

 

[Canonised]

Actually hor, I thought that the photog has to create a good photo regardless of the mua,model or lighting. if shoot halfway then studio light spoil but must submit to clt tmr, then how? blame everyone? or if u go to Grd Zero with rubble everywhere, then hw? try telling editor "sorry boss! no light! no mua! no model (?) cannot submit photo!" or better still, models are all dead (literally), then hw?

I always thot photog actually have little say- those who are professional with wires etc will know. you just shoot the bloody photo, then see what you can use. if u wanna fight with the entire team bec of your control, wa lau, photoshoot will never finish, then deadline hw?

ho sim la.. your style of profession is only limited to techs, might as well be camera asst. dun degrade and insult e solid, true profession. also i recomm u go study the word 'photography' again. think abt its meaning. tolong!

hooo simm laaa, you write like ah beng but got angmo name ......
your thinking is wrong la ... photog can only try his best (skills, experience, cams, etc..) regardless of the shooting condition. Photog is not God la. If no light, how to shoot? If mua is bad, how to give good portrait? How to shoot well if model cant pose, no look, etc?
PHOTOG ANSWERS ONLY TO HIS BOSS!.... if he is his own boss, then any condition also can. But if his boss wants a perfect portrait, then he needs a perfect face ... how to get the perfect face ... well you need a perfect model, a perfect mua, perfect light, perfect renumeration, perfect everything ... simple as that. But if boss say any pic will do, then of course, sh1t mua, sh1t model, etc... all oso ok!:bsmilie:
so remember, photog should have the final say (this say depends on what the boss want la)...
so if you are paying FULLY for the photoshoot, then you should have the final say. If you are in a group, then the group should have the final say.

 

[Pro Image]

hooo simm laaa, you write like ah beng but got angmo name ......
your thinking is wrong la ... photog can only try his best (skills, experience, cams, etc..) regardless of the shooting condition. Photog is not God la. If no light, how to shoot? If mua is bad, how to give good portrait? How to shoot well if model cant pose, no look, etc?
PHOTOG ANSWERS ONLY TO HIS BOSS!.... if he is his own boss, then any condition also can. But if his boss wants a perfect portrait, then he needs a perfect face ... how to get the perfect face ... well you need a perfect model, a perfect mua, perfect light, perfect renumeration, perfect everything ... simple as that. But if boss say any pic will do, then of course, sh1t mua, sh1t model, etc... all oso ok!:bsmilie:
so remember, photog should have the final say (this say depends on what the boss want la)...
so if you are paying FULLY for the photoshoot, then you should have the final say. If you are in a group, then the group should have the final say.

I like the way you define the ang mo ah beng.:thumbsup:

 

[Divine_Monk]

Photography is not just a skill. If it was just a skillset, then yes, portrait and photojournalistic photographer is different.

But then again, the man is alive, and he is in control of the application of the skills. The same skillset for driving a motorbike, can be translated into driving a 4WD because the base skills is the same. You might need a different license but that no difficulty is it?

For a portrait shot, of course we all loveeee for everything to be perfect. But how often in life is the subject perfect? And if it is perfect, how then does one demonstrate the understanding of the art? I dun think you think alot if someone tell you he managed to climb bukit timah hill, would you?

I dun think the ah moh ah beng is asking you to purposely take the photograph in no light condition. However, in the event of an outdoor shoot, and the artificial light goes dead, your model is only in town for the day, or you are a wedding photographer who accompany the bride and groom overseas and they are leaving at night, do you say that you cannot deliver because the lighting is bad. They are looking towards you to give them the preservation memory of the lifetime. The same thing the editor would want the picture perfect photos of the model regardless of the condition.

But you are not going to go too far if you are going to comtemplate about the looks of the model, the makeup, the lights and the blah when the guy next to you snaps every possible angle of the model, protraying the best of her under adverse conditions.

I recall in major fashion events, there is not just one photographer. So the photographer does not have any control over his subjects. Just as the photojournalist photographer does not have any control over his subjects in ground zero condition.

Hence, the concept for both is the same that its to get in, get the job done and get out.

How do you do the above if you do not understand the craft and continue in complacency that every single thing is wrong?

If the stylist style the model face as black, the cheographer approved it then it is his theme. You work according to the theme and bring the best out of it. If there is a crescent moon on the forehead, your job is to bring out the beauty of the model, isn't it? If the model has a chicken sitting on her head, it is also your job to work along the theme to bring out the best part of her. That's what a portrait is, isn't it?

If you can't do it, how do you call yourself professional in the first place?

For hobbyist, its still excusable because they are in the exploratory stage, fiddling with the camera and the lens, the different effects under different conditions and finding their own identity.

In an industry that is so competitive, lets not even talk about oversea. In Singapore alone, how many fashion shoots are there when the modelling industry is worth only S$5mil?

So your recommendation is that fashion photographers remain as photographers and when companies like Fox or CNN contact you for a job, you are suppose to tell them "sorry boss, I am a FASHION photographer. I cannot coverage this particular interview for you. Bye and have a nice day. Call me when you need Fashion Photographer" Maybe you would, I duno.

But that would be limiting the scope of work a Commercial Photographer can do.

Even though I dun agree with everything he said, the ang mo ah beng has a point, in cautioning us through Luval's weak understanding of photography and professionalism to re-examine our understanding of what photography is all about.

and deadpoet, you are not wrong is expressing the difficulty of doing a shoot without good makeup and lighting. Its a tough piece of ****, mind you.

Then again, its all about how committed to your passion, isn't it?

 

[Divine_Monk]

Good points you have raise.

Please do tell me when is a photographer his "own boss"?

Whoever that pays the photographer is the boss. Agree?

Oh.... want a perfect picture need a perfect face. Please do give me some examples of models in picture perfect shots. So die lah? Nobody here can take perfect pictures since there are no perfect model and perfect mua and stylist here.

Your insult is worse than the ang moh ah beng. At least he said that there are who can do it given crap models with crap makeup and still see some of us up. You are saying it is impossible and everyone else is crap and have no skill.

Photographers have the final say? Then he should be the Art Director and cheonograph the entire scene. Why be just a photographer? Again, please give me examples of instances when commercial photographers have final say in photoshoots.

hooo simm laaa, you write like ah beng but got angmo name ......
your thinking is wrong la ... photog can only try his best (skills, experience, cams, etc..) regardless of the shooting condition. Photog is not God la. If no light, how to shoot? If mua is bad, how to give good portrait? How to shoot well if model cant pose, no look, etc?
PHOTOG ANSWERS ONLY TO HIS BOSS!.... if he is his own boss, then any condition also can. But if his boss wants a perfect portrait, then he needs a perfect face ... how to get the perfect face ... well you need a perfect model, a perfect mua, perfect light, perfect renumeration, perfect everything ... simple as that. But if boss say any pic will do, then of course, sh1t mua, sh1t model, etc... all oso ok!:bsmilie:
so remember, photog should have the final say (this say depends on what the boss want la)...
so if you are paying FULLY for the photoshoot, then you should have the final say. If you are in a group, then the group should have the final say.

 

[Canonised]

Good points you have raise.

Please do tell me when is a photographer his "own boss"?

the Divine One, please read the small print ......
"IF he is his own boss" .... meaning if the photog shoot for his own pleasure and paying his own costs, then he is his own boss!:bsmilie:

Whoever that pays the photographer is the boss. Agree?

the small print again.... "But if his boss" means whoever pays him is the boss ...:bsmilie:

Oh.... want a perfect picture need a perfect face. Please do give me some examples of models in picture perfect shots. So die lah? Nobody here can take perfect pictures since there are no perfect model and perfect mua and stylist here.

you just dont like to read small print ...... "if his boss wants a perfect portrait" ..... simply it means if his boss want a PERFECT portrait image, then his boss must at least provide the perfect condition and environment ..... but obviously who can provide such a perfect condition? So in the real world, the photographer will decide what he believes is the perfect image that his boss (can be himself or whoever he thinks his boss is) is expecting. So if the photog is ok with lousy mua, lousy model, lousy etc... then he will have to accept the final image, and answerable to his boss (can be himself or whoever he thinks his boss is). simple?

Your insult is worse than the ang moh ah beng. At least he said that there are who can do it given crap models with crap makeup and still see some of us up. You are saying it is impossible and everyone else is crap and have no skill.

Photographers have the final say? Then he should be the Art Director and cheonograph the entire scene. Why be just a photographer? Again, please give me examples of instances when commercial photographers have final say in photoshoots.

Dont be so pathetic and put me in a position where i am not .... what insult r u talking abt? who have i insulted?.... what i wrote was simply it depends a lot on who is the boss in any shoot, and who is in control of the shoot. Dont be a smartasshole and put such words "You are saying it is impossible and everyone else is crap and have no skill." into my mouth .......:angry: Did I said or implied anything like that?

Since u brought it out, have you, the Divine One, ever done a real commercial portrait shoot or know of any commercial photographer "who can do it given crap models with crap makeup" ?

 

[Divine_Monk]

I travelled from the northern sea to the southern sea to visit the southern sea divine nun. Had many adventures, and have a number of "portrait" done with non A-list models.

By far, there aren't many A-list models anyway. Walk into a model joint in Tibet and you get greeted by the local definition of "perfect beauty". Who am I to say they look lousy least I get beaten up and thrown into the river? But I'm sure I'm the only odd-ball who kana these kind of thing. Must be my karma. Same thing when I walk into some model joint in Russia, they say their model is beautiful, so I just agree loh. They apply tribal art on the face, I just take loh. But never mind lah....

glad that everybody else here gets to work with perfect model, with perfect makeup and have absolute control over everyone on the set.

Off course, you didn't imply anything. You just said that nobody can do it if nothing is perfect, so do forgive my ignorance that you did not say that nobody can do it,except everything needs to be perfect before it can be done

I think be carpenter easier, as least when I was a carpenter I was expected to whack every block of wood, the harder the more challenging. If we found a block of wood that is so tough that can't be chisel, everybody would crowd around it to study how to chisel it.

Sigh... young people nowadays very hard to learn any skills already ah.... haiz....

the Divine One, please read the small print ......
"IF he is his own boss" .... meaning if the photog shoot for his own pleasure and paying his own costs, then he is his own boss!:bsmilie:

the small print again.... "But if his boss" means whoever pays him is the boss ...:bsmilie:


you just dont like to read small print ...... "if his boss wants a perfect portrait" ..... simply it means if his boss want a PERFECT portrait image, then his boss must at least provide the perfect condition and environment ..... but obviously who can provide such a perfect condition? So in the real world, the photographer will decide what he believes is the perfect image that his boss (can be himself or whoever he thinks his boss is) is expecting. So if the photog is ok with lousy mua, lousy model, lousy etc... then he will have to accept the final image, and answerable to his boss (can be himself or whoever he thinks his boss is). simple?

Dont be so pathetic and put me in a position where i am not .... what insult r u talking abt? who have i insulted?.... what i wrote was simply it depends a lot on who is the boss in any shoot, and who is in control of the shoot. Dont be a smartasshole and put such words "You are saying it is impossible and everyone else is crap and have no skill." into my mouth .......:angry: Did I said or implied anything like that?

Since u brought it out, have you, the Divine One, ever done a real commercial portrait shoot or know of any commercial photographer "who can do it given crap models with crap makeup" ?

 

[Canonised]

glad that everybody else here gets to work with perfect model, with perfect makeup and have absolute control over everyone on the set.

Off course, you didn't imply anything. You just said that nobody can do it if nothing is perfect, so do forgive my ignorance that you did not say that nobody can do it,except everything needs to be perfect before it can be done

Think been too long as the Divine one, has roomed up your brain .... please show me where did i even imply that "nobody can do it if nothing is perfect"? and "except everything needs to be perfect before it can be done"??????

You are definately not ignoring this ...."But if his boss wants a perfect portrait," .... read .... a perfect portrait.:angry: Isn't it obvious that if someone wants a perfect image, then the perfect conditions must be present. Please remember that we are talking about portrait photoshoot here and as such besides the photographer, we have the mua, the model, the lighting ppl, and etc.... For eg, so if your boss wants you to take the perfect image but the mua is color blind, can you still take the ideal photo?

and please dont keep putting words into my mouth .... "glad that everybody else here gets to work with perfect model, with perfect makeup and have absolute control over everyone on the set." ..... where did i write here to allow you to conclude like that? It's all in your Divine mind to corrupt others of my neutral comments.
Come on, stop been a hypocrite and called yrself the Divine Monk when "I travelled from the northern sea to the southern sea to visit the southern sea divine nun. Had many adventures, and have a number of "portrait" done with non A-list models." ... this is too detestable to your monastery ...:think:

 

[Bobman]

I thought its up to the photographer to bring the beauty in the pose of the model and make the best out of the make up and environment, and every pose the model is in has to come out good, irregardless of whether in your opinion is a good pose or bad pose?

That is a key differentiator from a professional photographer from a "amatuer" photographer that blames the model for not posing properly.

Duno... maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you are right that its everyone else's fault. Just my opinion.

Yes indeed. It is the responsibility of the photographer to bring out the beauty of the model whether she is a newbie or a pro. However, the difference between a pro photographer and a newbie is the pro has the experience and has the ability to execute his skills to make the model pretty by using the environement, available lights and his camera.

The newbie does not have enough experience to perform that so therefore, same model, same place, same time you will get different results. It is norm that people will start pointing fingers here and there but not to himself...

 

[christie_lysmf]

You are about the worse of all, full of sh*t.

I agree, the photographer is ultimately in control during the shoot, however, a photorapher can only do so much. Lights spoiled, and you are shooting fashion indoors, well tough sh*t, shoot has to delay. Without lights, there is no photography. Likewise, a lousy make up job, means a lousy image, there again, photography can only so so much.

Your analogy of ground zero and rubbles is totally irrevelent, thus also making your arguement irrevelent. War photographers are different breed compare to fashion photographers, who in turn are different to, say, sports photographers. Using a ground zero senario for a fashion photographer, only you can think of somthing like that!



Again, you are in a forum discussing portrait photography. Since when did the news wires send their photographer out to a model shoot. Photojournalists and portrait photographers are so different, they might as well come from different planets. Their only thing in comon is a camera, and yet, you want to comapre the two. Nice try.

And paraphrasing you comments, ho sim la, think before you write!

I see that you DO think like a photographer. GOOD! That's what we need in the industry. Unfortunately, seems that we do lack creative, versatile photographers. I don't see how portfolios and technicalities will come in useful if I tell my client (who can only have the shoot done today at 2am and running off to press at 6am) that I CANNOT shoot because so many aspects are lacking. I don't think my client will understand, and nor will my bills, my purse, my landlord etc etc etc. Of course, my tax dept too.

I like your comment on the difference between the different photographers. You're right. That being said, I wonder... how many of us can be versatile enough to capture visual images at all times and utilise what we have, regardless if its trashy or not... Photojourns I know have absolutely no problem with portrait, because one cannot rely on portrait or photojourn alone, can they?

 

[Bobman]

I have no qualms of being wrong. Through each mistake, I become stronger.

The model is a subject, just like the woman on the street of cambodia smoking weed is a model. There is no make up on her except for mud. The photographer must know exactly what to take in order to bring out the best in the subject.

The same for models on the fashion runway. You might not agree with the M.A.C team but if you have been in the box with 50 or 100 other photographers, you can try to be a control freak but you aren't going to control much.

Maybe you can explain your style that would be nice.

Confuse.... being in control means being professional. Must be the late nights and the noise...... can't think very well now....

Again, that is just what I feel. Nothing personal.

World peace would be nice.... no more fighting in Isreal.


cheerios.

Divine One, I really like your spirit. Each quote makes me learn something more.... I will be strong too for each mistake I made.

I think Luval is saying that if you have a chance or the ability to 'control' the situation by means of asking the model to pose, or mua to touch up or adjust position or lights.....

You runway photography is actually po pian type. They will shoot thousands and hopefull one shot comes out nice.....

 

[Bobman]

I see that you DO think like a photographer. GOOD! That's what we need in the industry. Unfortunately, seems that we do lack creative, versatile photographers. I don't see how portfolios and technicalities will come in useful if I tell my client (who can only have the shoot done today at 2am and running off to press at 6am) that I CANNOT shoot because so many aspects are lacking. I don't think my client will understand, and nor will my bills, my purse, my landlord etc etc etc. Of course, my tax dept too.

I like your comment on the difference between the different photographers. You're right. That being said, I wonder... how many of us can be versatile enough to capture visual images at all times and utilise what we have, regardless if its trashy or not... Photojourns I know have absolutely no problem with portrait, because one cannot rely on portrait or photojourn alone, can they?

No offence. I think it boils down to professionalism again. If you know you are in this industry and the demands are unforeseenable. You must have back up and I believe that the job don't comes out in seconds without briefing. You must be well equipped and you must have contigency plans.

If you say you are doing a fashion shoot outdoor and your outdoor strobes gone case, you shoot with moonlight? I believe you bring a spare with you. If not, what kind of business are you in. I believe your client won't ask you to shoot sunrise when it is 2am.

Results cannot be compromised although someone said we have to sometimes.

 

[Canonised]

Each quote makes me learn something more.... I will be strong too for each mistake I made.

haha .... u sounding more and more like the Divine DOM ...:lovegrin:

 

[canongrapherL]

Deadpoet,

Jusr curious...but it appears that you have always acted or perhaps a true authority in photography. Could you kindly share some of your works here for our appreciation and learning?

Thanks

 

[Ashleyy]

Hmm, I wonder how all these "arguements" and "opinions" are going to help the poor photographer who posted these photos... :think:

Anyway, Jcho> you mentioned that the colors went off when you rotate in Windows Viewer. Did you shoot the photo using Adobe Color instead of RGB Color? If you did, this is perhaps the issue. Unless Windows is configured to recognise the adobe colors, it will take it as RGB color and therefore may change your color palattes when you perform the rotation.

It will be good if you can check this portion, otherwise, then it may be some windows bug. I have been rotating pics in windows viewer without any issue as I am using RGB colors.

Otherwise, can you post the original pic that is not edited? i.e rotated or edited with graphic software. thanks.

 

[Bobman]

Anyway, Jcho> you mentioned that the colors went off when you rotate in Windows Viewer. Did you shoot the photo using Adobe Color instead of RGB Color? If you did, this is perhaps the issue. Unless Windows is configured to recognise the adobe colors, it will take it as RGB color and therefore may change your color palattes when you perform the rotation.

I have this problem too..... Maybe should attend PS classes....

 

[Ashleyy]

I have this problem too..... Maybe should attend PS classes....

Oops.. I forgot to mention.. If confirm this issue, try rotating the pics using Photoshop Brower/Bridge instead.

 

[AncientMariner]

Oops.. I forgot to mention.. If confirm this issue, try rotating the pics using Photoshop Brower/Bridge instead.

Or convert to B/W.
Maybe even claim it was shot in film like somebody did.:bsmilie: :bsmilie: