SBS Transit, SMRT ask to raise bus and train fares

[CYRN]

Right ON!!! :thumbsup:

Actually their energy expense can be seen from their fiscal reports. But onli a few years back... still trying to find diesel price from 1990... can't find in google leh. :sweat:

 

[CYRN]

good grief! you might as well tell me which grade of diesel also...

onli fuel deisel.

think he's on the same thinking as you need to substainstate your points. :bsmilie:

 

[StrifeYun]

hmmm, here's the oil price chart for the past year , daily.
price got decrease also arr

past 1 year chart

who noe where i can find the chart for the past 10yrs ?

 

[Reno]

good grief! you might as well tell me which grade of diesel also...

how i know... i am not working in the public transport company... if i am.. i will be standing on your side loh... :sweatsm:

 

[CYRN]

The original point is that someone said that singapore is a monopoly for transport providers. I said find me an urban area with many different transport providers serving it.


HK has 5 transport providers. But they serve different areas of HK.
So what? Do all 5 compete in the same region?

Alreadi mentioned in the post you quoted loh...overlapping servicesstly converging in the business center... so in a sense the compete in the business center region loh. :bsmilie:

But besides on harping on such finer points of the argument, perhaps you can also tell us how does Sg transporation compare to them in terms of competition.. since we must always be objective in the arguments and not veer off for the sake of arguments.

 

[CYRN]

how i know... i am not working in the public transport company... if i am.. i will be standing on your side loh... :sweatsm:

good one. :bsmilie: :thumbsup:

 

[datan]

hmmm, here's the oil price chart for the past year , daily.
price got decrease also arr

past 1 year chart

who noe where i can find the chart for the past 10yrs ?

in your bloomberg just change the date range and set it to weekly prices.

 

[CYRN]

hmmm, here's the oil price chart for the past year , daily.
price got decrease also arr

past 1 year chart

who noe where i can find the chart for the past 10yrs ?

In NZ cents, can't finde Sg one, but they seem to use Sg index.

Still onli as far back as 04 onli.
http://www.med.govt.nz/upload/25077/20060512-1.pdf

 

[StrifeYun]

in your bloomberg just change the date range and set it to weekly prices.

just now try cannot ley..... hmmm, commodities not my stuff

should just , <HELP> <HELP> <GO> wahahahaaha later go ask the analyst guy help me get wahah

 

[datan]

Anyway I think I've accomplished my main objective here.

My main objective is to really get people to look at numbers, look at energy prices, look at annual statements, do some research and compare against other countries instead of straightaway complaining. Now people are doing that. Even the ones who seem to be anti-establishment are taking supporting materials from government websites.

If you've done your homework and looked up the relevant statistics and facts and still can argue based on a fair analysis that the increase in fare prices are not justified, then fine. I won't argue further.

But what I really dislike is knee-jerk complaints whenever prices go up. Inflation is a fact of life. No matter what reason is given (oil prices, CPF contribution, better buses) by the PTOs, people will still complain.

If transport companies try to increase fares when economy is doing badly, people complain and government will try to get the transport companies to hold off the increase until economy is doing better. In 1999, there was actually a rebate given during the Asian Financial crisis (from Cryn's document Annex C). Imagine that! Transport companies taking a hit for the sake of the country. But now economy is doing better and transport companies want to raise fees, people still complain. So when should transport companies raise fees? In bad times or good times people still complain. They like to hold this as an issue to whack the government with.

Anyway, I'm probably done with this thread until someone can raise some very good points on why the fare hike is not justified since my main objective is to get people to really find evidence to support their feelings and not knee-jerk reactions.

 

[vince123123]

A relevant article published in Today:

Transport: Time for an overhaul?

Monday &#8226; August 6, 2007

Letter from Narayana Narayana

THE classic Latin phrase, "Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" (which means "I fear the Greeks, even when they bring gifts") immediately came to mind when I read the article, "Next bus will arrive in &#8230;" (July 31).

The report spoke of supposedly wonderful improvements in public transport services for the benefit of long-suffering commuters, by informing them when their next bus would arrive (picture).

Now, my worst fears have been proved correct. As revealed in the report, "Ticket to hike, please" (Aug 2), both public transport operators in Singapore are seeking to raise their fares.

I was, in fact, wondering a couple of months ago why the operators had been dragging their feet in not applying for the usual annual fare hike.

It now appears they were merely biding their time. To do so earlier would be too soon after reports of large increases in their respective operating profits.

According to current glowing economic forecasts, the global economy is in an era of never-ending boom, with Singapore prominently placed to reap plenty of benefits. What better time than now for the public transport operators to hold out their caps for a rise, with the probable argument that a few cents here and there would be "affordable" to the public?

During the last application, much of the same arguments of anticipated higher oil prices and operating costs were advanced; and despite these, the public transport companies turned in record profits.

Their projections and fears were, in the event, found to be widely off-target. On these precedent grounds alone, the Public Transport Council (PTC) should reject the present application for a fare increase.

Public transport is essentially a public-service operation. In this context, it is socially unconscionable that a few hundred or even thousand shareholders in a firm should be the sole beneficiaries at the expense of a few million other Singapore residents.

If, as reported, the public transport operators need to "invest more in the business", the funds should, logically, be raised from their own shareholders instead of holding the commuting public to ransom.

In the present booming stock market, where the investing public are prepared to subscribe billions of dollars to largely unknown and unproved market entrants in initial public offerings, surely these local operators should have enough confidence in their own abilities and operations to raise funds internally.

I also came across the article "Lower fares with new cab firm (Aug 2), which talked about a new taxi company entering the taxi market. Perhaps, it is time the present public transport operators come up for a review.

If they find difficulty in running essential services, an overhaul like the one done over 30 years ago seems to merit serious consideration.

Instead of approving another hike, the PTC should tell the public transport operators themselves to "go take a hike", in the greater interest of all commuters.

 

[datan]

in your bloomberg just change the date range and set it to weekly prices.

just now try cannot ley..... hmmm, commodities not my stuff

should just , <HELP> <HELP> <GO> wahahahaaha later go ask the analyst guy help me get wahah

type "CL1 comdty GP"

 

[CYRN]

Anyway I think I've accomplished my main objective here.

My main objective is to really get people to look at numbers, look at energy prices, look at annual statements, do some research and compare against other countries instead of straightaway complaining. Now people are doing that. Even the ones who seem to be anti-establishment are taking supporting materials from government websites.

If you've done your homework and looked up the relevant statistics and facts and still can argue based on a fair analysis that the increase in fare prices are not justified, then fine. I won't argue further.

But what I really dislike is knee-jerk complaints whenever prices go up. Inflation is a fact of life. No matter what reason is given (oil prices, CPF contribution, better buses) by the PTOs, people will still complain.

If transport companies try to increase fares when economy is doing badly, people complain and government will try to get the transport companies to hold off the increase until economy is doing better. In 1999, there was actually a rebate given during the Asian Financial crisis (from Cryn's document Annex C). Imagine that! Transport companies taking a hit for the sake of the country. But now economy is doing better and transport companies want to raise fees, people still complain. So when should transport companies raise fees? In bad times or good times people still complain. They like to hold this as an issue to whack the government with.

Anyway, I'm probably done with this thread until someone can raise some very good points on why the fare hike is not justified since my main objective is to get people to really find evidence to support their feelings and not knee-jerk reactions.

If that's your objective, then YOU should be the one posting all those links. :sticktong

 

[StrifeYun]

If that's your objective, then YOU should be the one posting all those links. :sticktong

:think: :bigeyes: :bsmilie: :sweat:

 

[CYRN]

:think: :bigeyes: :bsmilie: :sweat:

isn't it obvious.

 

[zcf]

Anyway I think I've accomplished my main objective here.

My main objective is to really get people to look at numbers, look at energy prices, look at annual statements, do some research and compare against other countries instead of straightaway complaining. Now people are doing that. Even the ones who seem to be anti-establishment are taking supporting materials from government websites.

If you've done your homework and looked up the relevant statistics and facts and still can argue based on a fair analysis that the increase in fare prices are not justified, then fine. I won't argue further.

But what I really dislike is knee-jerk complaints whenever prices go up. Inflation is a fact of life. No matter what reason is given (oil prices, CPF contribution, better buses) by the PTOs, people will still complain.

If transport companies try to increase fares when economy is doing badly, people complain and government will try to get the transport companies to hold off the increase until economy is doing better. In 1999, there was actually a rebate given during the Asian Financial crisis (from Cryn's document Annex C). Imagine that! Transport companies taking a hit for the sake of the country. But now economy is doing better and transport companies want to raise fees, people still complain. So when should transport companies raise fees? In bad times or good times people still complain. They like to hold this as an issue to whack the government with.

Anyway, I'm probably done with this thread until someone can raise some very good points on why the fare hike is not justified since my main objective is to get people to really find evidence to support their feelings and not knee-jerk reactions.

My summary probably as the quote below

Public transport is essentially a public-service operation. In this context, it is socially unconscionable that a few hundred or even thousand shareholders in a firm should be the sole beneficiaries at the expense of a few million other Singapore residents.

 

[Static]

Sorry Sire, ur objectives are not met.

Judging by the overall reactions from various forums, majority of the netizen deemed the

increase is unnecessary and unjustified.

Profits are high despite cries of oil shortage worldwide and increased operating costs.

While unresolved problems are yet to be solved, tansportation companies are finding reasons

to justify the approval for price increase.

There has to be an END to this current trend of price hike for every other thing (after GST)

 

[vince123123]

My summary probably as the quote below

Exactly, while people are debating about how much to rise and all that, they forget that public services are not intended to be profit generating. It is my humble opinion that this in effect means that anything about S$0 is considered alright for public services.

 

[Reno]

who say the economy is good now?? A lot of us still have not reinstate back to our previous pay.... who say the economy is good... please...... sigh..... why keep saying the economy is good.... one good example is just look at the Saturday's classified section..... if you have been following... you should know this yourself clearly.... please... dun keep saying the economy is good.

 

[goering]

Originally Posted by Narayana Narayana, published in Today
Public transport is essentially a public-service operation. In this context, it is socially unconscionable that a few hundred or even thousand shareholders in a firm should be the sole beneficiaries at the expense of a few million other Singapore residents.

Fantastic quote.

and not to mention their record profits they are making now - it's rather insensitive

Datam talks about energy prices but have the transport operators EVER decreased the fares when price of oil was low?