Price to pay to be a professional photographer

[Stereobox]

I still know of some photographers who do things like that...
PM me if you wanna know who is that...
Quote from my mentor again
"Photography is something that can teach, but can't be taught"

gosh..you mean they still do it..in front of the clients?:bigeyes: :bsmilie:

i have heard stories like when the photographer reach out his hand for something, the assistant is supposed to know what he needs and give it to him straight away, no questions asked. if he fail to do so, the photographer gonna f&*k him upside down.

ok, i have my fair share of embarassment in front of the clients, but i don't think it was ever as bad as the 'old times'. in a way, i'm fortunate, as there's more 'open-ness' towards asking my mentors questions.

i could be wrong, but i guess it depends on what 'style' the studio practice. some follow the 'western' style, where the photographer and assistant/s are seen as a 'team', or the more traditional style, the 'master and the apprentice'. mm..some just employ assistants simply as manual labourers?

whatever it is, i agree, the road to commercial photography success is a long and hard one. it's a journey not for everyone, and sometimes i have my doubts when i hear stories of people making it 'big-time' after just '1,2' years of 'switching careers'. maybe they are fortunate to have the talent. or maybe i'm just being envious :bsmilie:

 

[ortega]

i was doing photography professionally but soon it became work and i changed line.
now i direct photographers and review their work.

Photography is more fun if you shoot for yourself

 

[projekts]

gosh..you mean they still do it..in front of the clients?:bigeyes: :bsmilie:
i have heard stories like when the photographer reach out his hand for something, the assistant is supposed to know what he needs and give it to him straight away, no questions asked. if he fail to do so, the photographer gonna f&*k him upside down.

Yes, there're still some fellas doing that...
well, about the reaching out the hand part, the assistant should be able to know what he needs, and that's the knowledge that the assistant require to know...
if the assistant can't think like a photographer, how can he be a photographer in the future?
There are some who knows what the photographer even before he reach out his hand...

whatever it is, i agree, the road to commercial photography success is a long and hard one. it's a journey not for everyone, and sometimes i have my doubts when i hear stories of people making it 'big-time' after just '1,2' years of 'switching careers'. maybe they are fortunate to have the talent. or maybe i'm just being envious :bsmilie:

Just talent alone is not enough in this industry.
We need luck plus a lot of PR skill too...
plus many many strings to pull

Any photographer here ever experience freelance assistant approaching your client in front of you, tell them he/she is also a photographer and can shoot too?
Or he/she do it behind your back, like calling the client after the shoot and start asking for chance to present portfolio?

 

[walla]

you had experiences with assistants who don't respect you as the photographer?

Like in weddings, people are just shoutin: "CAMERA MAN! OEI! WHERE'S THE CAMERA MAN?!"
It's a photographer pls, not camera man...

 

[Stereobox]

Yes, there're still some fellas doing that...
well, about the reaching out the hand part, the assistant should be able to know what he needs, and that's the knowledge that the assistant require to know...
if the assistant can't think like a photographer, how can he be a photographer in the future?
There are some who knows what the photographer even before he reach out his hand...

totally agree! the photographer n assistant/s must synchronise and work seamlessly as a team. the assistant must also always be alert to the on-goings during the shoot, and facilitate the functions of not only the photographer, but also the art director, stylist, talent etc. when someone need help or need something, the assistant can be counted on to be there.

ok..i'm still working on it sometimes i'm abit blur

Just talent alone is not enough in this industry.
We need luck plus a lot of PR skill too...
plus many many strings to pull

Any photographer here ever experience freelance assistant approaching your client in front of you, tell them he/she is also a photographer and can shoot too?
Or he/she do it behind your back, like calling the client after the shoot and start asking for chance to present portfolio?

hmm..wow..so the assistant is so confident think he/she can do better ?

 

[Zplus]

Gee... if a assistant can mind read or knows what the photographer needs... then he can either be a psychic or a photographer already...

 

[erizai]

well for my story,i started as a assistant 5 years ago,it was not a easy road for me,as i am a girl who do not know anything about the studio,i have my fair share of hard work too.i am from Full-time assistant to now freelance assistant/Photographer.

Maybe i am a girl,they think that i cant do the job,cos i need to carry a lot of heavy stuff,so i prove them wrong.

So far i have assist to 4 photographer before.

When i was a assistant,i get pay about $900-$1000 only.Every day shoot from 10am-11pm with fail,and worst we dont even have time to rest,even we have lunch break,when we finish lunch,we have to start shooting again.i know as time we are busy,it fine by me,but sometime when we r not so busy,even we finish our lunch,the boss wife will say"Eh u all finish lunch,pls dont sit there,get back to work",when we hear this,we were angry ,cos come on we r human too,we are not machine u know :angry:

And the worst thing is that,we have to countiune to shoot till late at night,the boss and his wife can go home first:thumbsd: ,We are not pay O.T.,but can only claim for taxi fare only:thumbsd:,i still remember once we shoot till 3 am and the next day have to be in the studio at 10am again

It a very long road that i have "walk",but i am glad that this road,i have learn a lot of things

This year i just started my own company,its not easy for me,have been investing a lot of money in it,so far the business not bad,need to have a lot of networking as well,through friends recommand people to me.i hope that those who work as a assist,do not give up no matter how hard the road is,cos when u become the boss,u will know what you have go through,so u can train your assistant as well,but i always tell myself one thing that i will not treat my assistant how my photographer have "treated" me.Word goes around,not good for the photographer name.d:

Now all i hope for is that business will get better next year :thumbsup:

Wish you all the best
:thumbsup:

 

[ortega]

Gee... if a assistant can mind read or knows what the photographer needs... then he can either be a psychic or a photographer already...

if you work with a photographer long enough, you will know what he is going to do next.
in fact it is your job to keep track of the technical stuff.
i view it as the photog and the assistant work as a team

 

[Stereobox]

Gee... if a assistant can mind read or knows what the photographer needs... then he can either be a psychic or a photographer already...

even when the assistant is busy doing something else, he/she should always keep 1 eye alert on what the photographer, and the rest of the team, is doing.

usually it's quite common sense, like handing him/her the gaffer tape, scissors and stuff. not something unusual like...a giant hairy tarantula? :bsmilie:

actually the role of the assistant is very important. i view it as the 'facilitator' of the shoot. he's the lubricant of the engine.

 

[Stereobox]

Wish you all the best
:thumbsup:

i'm a personal friend of ling13, and she is a very hardworking person. she puts everything behind her work, very professional.

i wish her all the best too!

 

[Zplus]

even when the assistant is busy doing something else, he/she should always keep 1 eye alert on what the photographer, and the rest of the team, is doing.

usually it's quite common sense, like handing him/her the gaffer tape, scissors and stuff. not something unusual like...a giant hairy tarantula? :bsmilie:

actually the role of the assistant is very important. i view it as the 'facilitator' of the shoot. he's the lubricant of the engine.

Hahaha... exactly.... its only crappy when you stick out a hand and expects the assistant to hand over a tool. Even a surgeon says what he needs when he sticks out his hand.;p

 

[Stereobox]

Hahaha... exactly.... its only crappy when you stick out a hand and expects the assistant to hand over a tool. Even a surgeon says what he needs when he sticks out his hand.;p

ya la.. :bsmilie: thats why i mentioned, 'i heard stories' of assistants kena f&*ked just because the photog sticks out his hand and the assistant have no idea what he/she wants.

 

[student]

It's always no sweat and no gain in trying to make a buck in photography.

In the first initial years the returns were nothing much to speak of. Now that I have something like 8,000 photos in the net which could fetch enough dough for me to live on.

You have done VERY WELL!

A friend of mine, full time, >40 years experience, slogged for 3 years for Paul Caponigro without pay, now in his 60s, thousands of images,

Yet, lives in almost "unbelievable" poverty.

Only consolation is that museums collect his works!

 

[ling13]

I agree with willyfoo,sg market is just too small for all the photographer out there,i know some of them even uder-charge client just to get the job:angry: ,this is not the way yo do business,just charge according to your skill,be more fair to all the professional photographer out there :thumbsup:

 

[aeronautisis]

I think it'll depend on whether u refer a professional photographer as freelancer or one with a photography company. A freelancer can only go so far, due to public's perception or others.

Once u have your own company/studio, it's a different story all together. I presume you are talking about the latter rather than about freelancing. With a company, you have other issues at heart, such as cost, pr and human resource.

For HR, you have issues such as assistants-to-be asking for a ridiculous sum for renumeration, some smart alecks who (as an assistant) want to be able to set up lights independently as he sees fit, people who want this, want that with thousands of demands etc. These are "assistant-hunting" issues. Even after you've settled the hiring issue, sometimes, e.g. like what u've mentioned, you have ingrates who has no qualms about making things hell for you though you spent efforts to teach and mentor them.

Not just HR issues, you also have to deal with cost issues. Not just minimising the usual cost of operation, at times you have assistants who pile up ridiculous costs for u. This involves screwing jobs with their don't-care attitude, abandon/backlog everything resulting in you having to incur extra costs to clear them etc. These are not just financial costs, but cost to company's or your image as well. As u've also mentioned, good people are getting harder and harder to find.

Past assistant problems, you then need to tackle pr and marketing issues to get the client and build up your client base. Then as ling13 mentioned, you have rivals playing price war and you get undercut everywhere you turn.

These are all real issues that professional photographers have to endure, a little too often nowadays.


Good efforts to want people to share their stories, but this thread seem to be going OT with more talk about assisting rather than "price to pay to be a professional photographer".

 

[Stereobox]

sorry for the OT then :dunno:

but keep the posts coming~ :thumbsup:

 

[Sion]

You have done VERY WELL!

A friend of mine, full time, >40 years experience, slogged for 3 years for Paul Caponigro without pay, now in his 60s, thousands of images,

Yet, lives in almost "unbelievable" poverty.

Only consolation is that museums collect his works!

I don't think you can put me in the same class as your friend whom you have mentioned on previous occasions does fine art photography and is a true artist.

I am a opportunist who shoots commercial cliche. If images of calculator, computer keyboard and abacus can make money, I'll shoot a lot of them.

When we die your friend will leave behind a legacy but no one will want to remember someone who shoots calculator, computer keyboard and abacus. :bsmilie:

 

[Sion]

Good efforts to want people to share their stories, but this thread seem to be going OT with more talk about assisting rather than "price to pay to be a professional photographer".

I could only speak from the angle of a freelancer. I think the downside of someone who freelances beside a day job is he or she will have no much of a life.

Beside the daily routine of goign to work, makan, bath and sleep most of free time will be taken up by photography. Taking photos is only part of the job, there are posting processing, digital retouching, keywording, uploading, sourcing of props etc. I could remember the days that I were using a slow Mac and a slow CD burner. I had to wake up a few times in the night to change CDs.

People take annual leaves for holiday but I take them to work on photography. You don't see my face in a farewell drink, Christmas party or wedding dinner because I will be shooting or sitting in front of computer PSing.

So the wife has to get used to be without you most of the time. And this is going to be hard if you have a young family or a girlfriend. There is no free lunch and money won't fall from the sky everytime you click the camera. And this is precisely the reason I buy a lottery everyweek. :bsmilie:

 

[doug3fflux]

Assisting is perhaps the path many aspiring, passionate fellows who develop the interest in photography take as they find their footing in the commercial world of shooting. As earlier mentioned, they learn more about the business while they assist.

First from assisting, then to becoming a fulltime professional. Generally I feel a cycle exists; starting with mere passion, then assisting, then after much BST, professionalising. I believe this cycle should narrow the gap between those taking younger ones under their mentoring wings and those mentor-rees, simply because they themselves have been through the most part of the cycle and are now capable of passing down experience and valuable skills to their students. We should try our best to nurture the younger ( literally ) ones in this field, as, generally, age means experience in the field.

Of course, albeit sucky attitude-problem pupils that lack a large chunk of what makes a prospective photographer.

Everyone starts somewhere, and I am sure back in the earlier days, when the now-fulltime professionals were assisting, they too did not know the guidelines etc of assisting. How did they learn, then? They learnt by being smacked in the back of their head, by being scolded in front of clients etc. My point is simply that this 'smacking' etc should still continue, to educate and give the younger ones a taste of the pseudo-'harsher' environment of photography as a profession.

Hopefully then, not every young aspiring photographer will expect it to be a smooth journey ahead.

Im prepared!



Douglas

 

[roti]

I would prefer to say that I had experienced many assistants who don't know their position during the shoot.
:dunno:
well, maybe there's the direction the market is moving to now.
or maybe i am still caught up in those days that photographers slapping the head of assistants and calling them names in front of clients.
I don't do that, but i had definately experienced that.

arrr....those days...i was brought up by shi fu this way....hahhahahaa..wa..more than 5 yrs ago....