Portraiture Experiments - Christine

[ellery]

Your lighting is not really there - when its there it does the work without being the most visible thing in the picture. The strongest element here is the attempt at lighting, not the correctness of it nor the appropriateness of it.

If you have not real idea what you are doing, this is known as being lost. If you are lost then it is hard to produce a wow shot unless it happens by chance. Vision comes from know what is what and how it should look like. It has to be learnt real way any one can "teach" from a forum - take time, take visual examples. take ability to communicate to you and you need to have the ability to listen, contemplate on and reach various levels of understanding then you can start to apply. It is hard work to teach much harder than to do. Advise getting trained there are books, there are videos, there are trainers - but trainers are iffy some are good others exist to transfer your money from you to them for some stories and little real training. Analysis of what is done is a need skills if you are going to get better.

Go work with some real models - try a session with model lin his girls tend to know what they are doing ; suspect most of them are actually working as models and not like most of the girls used here which are part timers and most never made the effort to really learn the trade banking on youthful looks and a certain quirk of genetics to give them a certain very limited look. This is a blunt assessment not sugar coating it. If it offends some people life is short , YOLO.

Hi Ellery. Thanks for dropping in with the critique. Appreciate your sharing.

Now that you mention it, some of the poses do look a little stiff. However, could you kindly help me understand what you mean when you say it doesn't cut is as either portraiture or fashion? What would be the criteria to fit in either category. How do I do that?

I understand what you mean by the composition being off. But it'd be really cool if you could share which ones I could work on. I wouldn't go so to far to trouble you to comment on all (though that'd be for the win), just dropping me idea on improved composition for one or two would be a great way to help me out.

Oh and lastly, the part about the lighting, it's a shame if it distracted the viewer from the model. I was trying to go for more dramatic lighting. Didn't know I succeeded too well. Lemme know where I can dial it down a little.

Haha. As for the part on her being disinterested. I guess that was on me. Was going for the, as you put it, "haughty fashionista" look. Didn't intend for it to come out disconnected.

Thanks for the pointing out the red-flags. Looking forward to hearing your pointers.

Cheers!

Norman.

 

[NormanSelvaraju]

Your lighting is not really there - when its there it does the work without being the most visible thing in the picture. The strongest element here is the attempt at lighting, not the correctness of it nor the appropriateness of it. If you have not real idea what you are doing, this is known as being lost. If you are lost then it is hard to produce a wow shot unless it happens by chance. Vision comes from know what is what and how it should look like. It has to be learnt real way any one can "teach" from a forum - take time, take visual examples. take ability to communicate to you and you need to have the ability to listen, contemplate on and reach various levels of understanding then you can start to apply. It is hard work to teach much harder than to do. Advise getting trained there are books, there are videos, there are trainers - but trainers are iffy some are good others exist to transfer your money from you to them for some stories and little real training. Analysis of what is done is a need skills if you are going to get better. Go work with some real models - try a session with model lin his girls tend to know what they are doing ; suspect most of them are actually working as models and not like most of the girls used here which are part timers and most never made the effort to really learn the trade banking on youthful looks and a certain quirk of genetics to give them a certain very limited look. This is a blunt assessment not sugar coating it. If it offends some people life is short , YOLO.

Hey Ellery. Thanks for dropping by again. Unfortunately, your reply leaves more questions than answers. Would appreciate it if you could clarify.

You mention that the lighting is not correct nor appropriate. How so? To my understanding, I tried to light up the model without clipping the highlights or losing details and get introducing shadows for a more 3d effect. I thought I had achieved it. Please advise where I didn't.

Yup! I'm always trying to learn more thru watching videos, reading books, from the experiences of others. Also I'm open to critique and comments. Haven't found a trainer as yet. To be honest haven't thought it is necessary cos I can always tap on the expertise of the ppl at Clubsnap. Haha. That's where I'm at, learning provisions-wise.

As for vision: yeah. I understand what you mean. To have an overall idea of what I wanna shoot and how I intend to execute it. I didn't think about that the first time. But nowadays I do. Perhaps it's not refined. Shall work on it. Thanks for it pointing out.

Working with professional models? Yeah. I tried that. It worked brilliantly. She was really great with the losing and connection with the camera. Check out my other thread on LISAH in portraits and poses as well, if you would like. But would like to work with the non professional models and execute shots. Cos i think it takes a lot more skill to make a non model look model like. I feel the larger burden of responsibility lies on the photographer. I wanna be able to achieve that. And I'm working towards that.

So yeah. thanks for your input. And your assessment. Only I hope that you can clarify your opinions a little more for me to learn from

Cheers!

 

[SAMUEL HO]

I think you have a good model there. Just then the model look uncomfortable with the shot. Funny?
The idea was there. Good pose as well.
Just that she doesn't seem contacted.
But nice works and keep going

 

[NormanSelvaraju]

I think you have a good model there. Just then the model look uncomfortable with the shot. Funny? The idea was there. Good pose as well. Just that she doesn't seem contacted. But nice works and keep going

Thanks for dropping by with the word of encouragement.

Yeah. I keep getting that feedback the the model looks disconnected. I was trying to go for those high fashion kinda harsh looks that the models give in magazines. Guess it didn't work out well. Still figuring things out mate.

Cheers.

 

[Andrew Ng]

Hi, Since you are using speed lights through a softbox, I recommend that you stick to f/2.8. Until you understand the reciprocals of lighting/ inverse square law, stick to f.2.8, 1/4 flash power and zoom your flash head to 28mm~35mm. Move your light physically around/ towards/ backwards/ away from the model to 'reduce' or 'increase' the 'power of the light hitting' the model.

After 10000 shutters, you should get it.

One more thing... Get lightstand that extends up to 2.75m or higher. Bonus if have boom arm.

To make good lighting means to create great shadows. Think about it. Cheers.

 

[NormanSelvaraju]

Hi, Since you are using speed lights through a softbox, I recommend that you stick to f/2.8. Until you understand the reciprocals of lighting/ inverse square law, stick to f.2.8, 1/4 flash power and zoom your flash head to 28mm~35mm. Move your light physically around/ towards/ backwards/ away from the model to 'reduce' or 'increase' the 'power of the light hitting' the model. After 10000 shutters, you should get it. One more thing... Get lightstand that extends up to 2.75m or higher. Bonus if have boom arm. To make good lighting means to create great shadows. Think about it. Cheers.

Hey Andrew.

Thanks for the reply. I've been thinking bout what you said. Shall try it out the next time. But I wonder if f2.8 might be too shallow given that I'm using a 70-200 on a full frame and a half body shot at about 3m would yield a dof of btwn 16cm to 3 cm.

Noted on the lights stands. I have two backdrop stands that can nicely double up for outdoor lighting.

 

[Shizuma]

Norman, I think you have improved significantly since shooting Christine (then you shot Lisah, etc)

you should stop down and shoot deep.

I feel that moving the lights nearer and further actually increases and decreases the apparent-size vs subject ratio, thus varying the quality of light instead of solely the intensity of light.

doing so will result in inconsistent exposure at the suggested 2.8 wide open aperture. too near and subject burn. too far and then underexposed and over contrasted. personally I don't think this is an effective method to experience lighting. but what do I know? I'm just a small little cat

 

[NormanSelvaraju]

Norman, I think you have improved significantly since shooting Christine (then you shot Lisah, etc) you should stop down and shoot deep. I feel that moving the lights nearer and further actually increases and decreases the apparent-size vs subject ratio, thus varying the quality of light instead of solely the intensity of light. doing so will result in inconsistent exposure at the suggested 2.8 wide open aperture. too near and subject burn. too far and then underexposed and over contrasted. personally I don't think this is an effective method to experience lighting. but what do I know? I'm just a small little cat

Thanks for the kind words Shizuma.

Yeah. I kinda appreciate the benefits of stopping down when using external lighting. It provides a little more control.

And what you said about focussing on the quality of the light as opposed to the quantity/intensity of the light makes so much of sense!

Adding to that, another poster had mentioned that external lighting is about creating shadows and not just "illuminating" the subject. It made me rethink my approach a whole lot!

Appreciate your input and those of the other posters as well! Very valuable.

Am shooting a darker complexioned model this weekend and I'm truly looking forward to the challenges therein. Shall post some photos once they are ready, for further feedback!

Thanks again!

 

[Shizuma]

it dark complexion model try using highlighting makeup. ask your MUA for it. nose bridge , cheeks and forehead.

you can try varying the angle of light for contrast control.

two softbox at camera 4 and 8 o'clock will make flat.
cross light at 2 and 8 o'clock is another idea

 

[Sion]

#3 - Christine

Outdoor Portraits - Christine by AboveNorm, on Flickr

This one could be good as monotone.

 

[NormanSelvaraju]

This one could be good as monotone.

Thanks Sion.

Shall experiment with the post processing when i can!

Appreciate the comment!