Perspective Issues on Olympus Crop system

[elgkh]

Hopefully we will have a forum outing soon )). I can bring my Canon 5D for you to try.

 

[wonglp]

I have been following this thread and I have seldom seen such patience and nice people here telling you exactly what you asked. I am old uncle and have learned a lot from younger folks (such as Wong LP and few others). I have to say something which may sound offensive but my intend is not to discourage you from asking but to help you find the answers that you are looking for. I frankly think that you have moved the goal post many times and when an answer has been given you come out with some other things. This is not a discussion that would end (though like the rest, you have been very courteous and cordial). It is best that you show us some of your shots and point out what you like to clarify. I am also a Nikon shooter (1.5x crop Nikon D90) and sometimes shoot with my friend's FF (Nikon D700). Now that I have an EP3, I have few shots of the same subject with the same lens but mounted on different camera bodies. In a very short time I understand what the differences are. If you need to test out, we can meet and I let you handle my camera and lenses so that you can verify and find the answers that you are seeking. Actually from a theory point of view this is not easy to grasp but if you do a practical lesson, all would be clear. All your confusion will be cleared up. Sorry if I read wrong but you seem to be accepting the explanations yet asking new questions and poking up new questions that seem to beat around the topic. I hope that this would not cause a flare up. Honestly I learned a lot from this thread and some of my earlier "confusion" has been cleared through the write up here.
Again there is nothing wrong to ask but please do so topic by topic. We all learn this way.

Yeah most of the Oly CSer are very nice folks specially Mr. WongLp he's one of the kindest person here in Oly Forum =)

Kudos to all seniors here most of the time they tolerate these things here and would still response politely =)

Thanks for kind words, KYFoong & albertri, m43 is still an ever growing format, I started out in 43, so I had learn alot from other folks in this forum over the years, to be fair to TS, it's confusing understanding the topics. Perhaps I had confused more than help ;p

If TS wants more comparison for focal lengths/sensor size, I can do some tests to clear some air as well, hopefully. There are alot of info in this thread which are also very useful that I learned. And I think many would realize by now that every format has pros and cons, rather than spinning off to be sensor size war thread. As it is with m43 for AF lenses and portability, it's best for my needs.

 

[Atarandas]

Ts confusion arise probably due to the mix up of certain terminologies like
Field of view , depth of view , perspective

I remember we have similar threads discussing perspective . Can run a search to read those discussions on the various terms .
Other forums like the rangefinder forum also has section on technical discussions as stickies if I recall correctly.

Anyway forum is a place to relax and connect with like minded individuals . No need to get frustrated really in my opinion.

 

[KYFoong]

Anyway forum is a place to relax and connect with like minded individuals . No need to get frustrated really in my opinion.

I agree with you. There is no need to get frustrated in any discussion. Even if the person does not agree with my opinion, it is his right and we should learn to accept his argument for the disagreement. We are sometimes far from being able to accept to live with agreeing to disagree. This is the reason that there are so many brands and so many colors (see, instead of colours?). Simple reason, some people like their equip in certain color. We may not like certain color scheme but hack if the user/owner likes it that is his/her preference. Ugly/Nice color is subjective. Have you seen my purple cam body, black lens, white filter, green leather case? Ah... and red cam bag? That's the way I like it hehehe. Wong LP saw it and fell in love with the scheme! You secretly wished for the combination right, Mr Wong?

 

[cannedpineapples]

I agree with you. There is no need to get frustrated in any discussion. Even if the person does not agree with my opinion, it is his right and we should learn to accept his argument for the disagreement. We are sometimes far from being able to accept to live with agreeing to disagree. This is the reason that there are so many brands and so many colors (see, instead of colours?). Simple reason, some people like their equip in certain color. We may not like certain color scheme but hack if the user/owner likes it that is his/her preference. Ugly/Nice color is subjective. Have you seen my purple cam body, black lens, white filter, green leather case? Ah... and red cam bag? That's the way I like it hehehe. Wong LP saw it and fell in love with the scheme! You secretly wished for the combination right, Mr Wong?

any picture?

 

[KYFoong]

any picture?

Haha Brother, trying to illustrate a point by exaggeration. I prefer black/brown for my equipment (including bag).

 

[cichlid]

I have some (test) pics at home that were shot with m4/3, APS-C and FF sensor cameras...I will post the pics tonight (disclaimer: my test my be flawed, haha)

 

[cannedpineapples]

Haha Brother, trying to illustrate a point by exaggeration. I prefer black/brown for my equipment (including bag).

Unlike your post

 

[KYFoong]

Sorry Brother, if I misled you. Even Wong LP sms me about my red bag! I joke a lot too...not too serious la... I am trying to stress a point; but the last post on black is real. Let's meet for coffee then we know each other better. I have met a few and I love the attitude of younger folks because their thinking make me relevant. I dress conservative but try to be fashionable in thinking...hehehe.

 

[cannedpineapples]

Sorry Brother, if I misled you. Even Wong LP sms me about my red bag! I joke a lot too...not too serious la... I am trying to stress a point; but the last post on black is real. Let's meet for coffee then we know each other better. I have met a few and I love the attitude of younger folks because their thinking make me relevant. I dress conservative but try to be fashionable in thinking...hehehe.

Ya I got your point... I agree, purple, green and orange is a great color combi. (Red is close enough to orange). Was really looking forward to see the pics!

 

[Oly5050]

But i really apreciate the many replies im getting. This goes to show that the people in this online community are very willing to share! Thanks alot for the help everyone! Especially Oly1505!

Most welcome. Glad you appreciate it. We all learn at the same time. It's a good question and promotes forum activity and participation. Technical or not, it enhances understanding of the system and good for those who are interested. Talking about it inevitably enhances everyone's understanding of the issue. But it is important for all to try to write properly and clearly so as to minimise misunderstanding.

 

[cichlid]

The following are shots that were made with a 100mm lens (all shot at f4) and mounted on different size (FF, APS-C and M4/3) sensor cameras. The cameras were mounted on a tripod and the distance between the subjects and cameras remained the same throughout.

It didn’t occur to me to take a few steps back to get same field of view between the M4/3 and the other cams.

If there is any interest in such a test, I will do a more comprehensive test in 3 weeks’ time when I get back my FF camera.

The different field of views:

FF (whole picture)

APS-C (whole picture)

M4/3 (whole picture)

 

[cichlid]

FF crop to match M4/3

APS-C crop to match M4/3 D90 DOF crop to pen

 

[Oly5050]

Cichlid - good of you to post these shots. I assume its the same lens but on different cameras. Thank you. They show something that we all know. But i think that is not what this thread is all about. Its about native 100 mm lens on 135 full frame and native 50 mm lens ie 4/3 on 4/3 camera.

 

[cichlid]

Cichlid - good of you to post these shots. I assume its the same lens but on different cameras. Thank you. They show something that we all know. But i think that is not what this thread is all about. Its about native 100 mm lens on 135 full frame and native 50 mm lens ie 4/3 on 4/3 camera.

ok,didnt read the whole thread as it is too wordy ;p

I think you meant we want this?

The M4/3 has more DOF for sure.

 

[wonglp]

ok,didnt read the whole thread as it is too wordy ;p

I think you meant we want this?

The M4/3 has more DOF for sure.

Haha, so did I. I believe Oly5050 is asking that. Great illustration bro! Just a point to add, if the aperture of 100m lens on D700 FF cam is at 5.6 it would have same DOF as the m43 cam with 50mm lens at F2.8, both shot at same distance.

 

[Oly5050]

Haha, so did I. I believe Oly5050 is asking that. Great illustration bro! Just a point to add, if the aperture of 100m lens on D700 FF cam is at 5.6 it would have same DOF as the m43 cam with 50mm lens at F2.8, both shot at same distance.

Sorry, no. That's not wat im asking.
I think its off point now and perhaps we shd close the thread or else there will be more and more confusion. I thk the TS queries have been answered.

 

[cannedpineapples]

Apart from the DOF, pretty much exactly the same then...

 

[Oly5050]

Hi guys,

As you all know the 4/3 system gives a crop factor of X2. Due to that the lenses are actually marketed as equiv to X2 of the focal length on each lens.

However, i watched a video by zack arias and he was talking about crop systems where the optics of the lens is build to lets say 12mm but what your sensor sees is only half of what a full frame camera would see.

Hence, i was wondering if i shoot with a 50mm lens the perspective of the lens would probably still remain as one of a 50mm rather than 100mm.

Am i right to say so?

Thanks in advance!

Actually some final words since we are at it. Its impt not to use the wrong terms even tho we know wat u mean but this perpetuates misconceptions about the 4/3 system.

So firstly, 4/3 is NOT a crop system. It is in reality a first digital full-frame system.

Second, the lenses are not crop factored but rather the word is multiplication factor. This helps people used to the 35 mm format to visualize what the field of view of a 50 mm 4/3 lens us ie. equivalent to a 100 mm lens on 35 mm format.

And when using native 4/3 lens on 4/3 cameras, the sensor sees the full image and not a crop of it.

Hope this helps.

 

[albertri]

I partially agree with you bro Oly if you look at it 4/3 is actually the same film size as 110 =) ref info (110 film - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) So those using or familair with 110 yes 4/3 is the first Digital full frame =)

But 35mm became accepted as the international standard thus when the DSLR emerges they use the 35mm as thier reference for thier sensor size. In the film industry The 35 mm width with 4 perforations per frame became the standard guage. This is both movie and film those days.

So your statement of 4/3 is the 1st full frame from the point of view of 110 film format I would say yes. So now the APS-C user would also say in the APS film format point of view with is 3:2 then APS-C is the Full frame equivalent of the famous amature film APS (24mm)? and from the 35mm users then the current Digital sensor size (35mm) is the full frame also? If we dont place any standard everyone could claim thier sensor size is full frame specially those who has equivalent film size. =) Let's not add more confusion to a very confusing terminologies already =)

I agree with you that the lens is not crop =) but design to specific film or sensor format e.g. legacy SLR lenses suited for 35mm and those of 4/3 lenses was design for 4/3 size sensor =) and some Nikon/Sony Lenses deisgn for thier APS-C sensors.