Parallel Import from TCW

[pokiemon]

Here's an attempt to define grey market so that we can all benefit from it...

1. What does “Grey Market” mean?
"Grey market", also known as "direct import", are products imported directly into a country., and not through the manufacturer's authorized agent / distributor.

2. Are “Grey Market” products legally imported?
Yes, it is perfectly legal to Directly Import these products and sell it into the country. The term “Grey Market” was coined by manufacturer's authorized distributors who wanted to discourage consumers from buying these goods. Its proper name is "direct import",

3. What are the advantages “Grey Market” Goods ?
Since there is no factory authorized middle man involved in the import of these products the costs are lower, and so the price of the item is lower to you, the consumer.
In addition many items which are in short supply or are not imported at all by the manufacturer's authorized distributors are available in “Grey Market”

4. What are the disadvantages of “Grey Market” goods?
Again since there is no factory authorized middle man involved in the import of these products, there is no manufacturer's warranty
“Grey Market” Products purchased from the shop are warrantied by the shop have to be returned to the shop for any in warranty repair.

5. Are there any additional differences?
There is no difference in the actual products. In most cases they are manufactured in the same place by the same people and with the same materials.
Occasionally manufacturers will name them differently for example the Minolta USA Maxxum products are called Minolta Dynax products in Europe and in Asia

6. What Kind of warranty does the shop offer on “Grey Market” goods?
On “Grey Market products purchased from the shop, they offer the same warranty as the warrantied products carry for a period of one year.
The only difference is that you would need to ship it back to the shop for warranty service. If you choose to go back to the manufacturer for servicing instead, you will need to pay a servicing fee as it is not covered by the manufacturer.

7. What happens after the warranty expires?
Just like products with an expired Manufacturers’ warranty you would take the product to any convenient repair shop and pay for the repair.


With regards to Acidbyte's gripe or anyone choosing to buy a product, I guess the lesson to learn is to ask the following questions when making a purchase:

1. Does the product come with a warranty card?

2. How long is the warranty cover?

3. Is the warranty provided by the Manufacturer or the shop?

4. If it is provided by the manufactuer, does it cover internationally as well? And don't take their word at face value, ask the sales person to show you the part on the warranty card that says it is covered internationally.

5. Always buy from an authorised dealer or at least from a reputable shop that is known for their after-sales services should you choose to buy a grey set.

6. Do some research on the product. Shops do not have the luxury of time to provide full disclosure on their product. Hence it is on our onus to ask the right questions. If we do not do our own research, it is the buyer's loss ultimately.

7. Last but not least, learn from experience! Treat the $100 Sigma servicing fee as tuition fees.

Hope this helps.

 

[theITguy]

In the past, TCW used to get their sigma stuff from PhotoGuide (RIP). These days, i heard its all parallel.
ITguy: It is the buyers responsibility, even on B&S, to check. Hence the caveat, buyers beware! Sellers never ever reveal their sources. U'd be apalled if you ever found out where some of your daily stuff comes from.

It is not about revealing the source, it is about telling who to lookout for the warranty. Already TCW people (from the previous posts) "assume" that the buyer knows. We cannot assume to know that this "ABC" shop is shop warranty only or distributor warranty only. If every m***** f***** is to call the agent or distributor to ask which shop holds the warranty from them, then the distributor will be so free. If this guy (assume an old man) dun know internet how? How he go and find out which is which distributor? He saw the warranty card, send it to the agent here, then only finds out it is grey set blah blah blah.

 

[szekiat]

It is not about revealing the source, it is about telling who to lookout for the warranty. Already TCW people (from the previous posts) "assume" that the buyer knows. We cannot assume to know that this "ABC" shop is shop warranty only or distributor warranty only. If every m***** f***** is to call the agent or distributor to ask which shop holds the warranty from them, then the distributor will be so free. If this guy (assume an old man) dun know internet how? How he go and find out which is which distributor? He saw the warranty card, send it to the agent here, then only finds out it is grey set blah blah blah.

Your old man's warranty card wasn't even stamped by the seller. Even if it weren't parallel imported, the agent is never gonna accept it without a receipt or at minimum, a seller's stamp since the goods might be stolen.

 

[vince123123]

Actually, I doubt that buyer's beware is always a legal defence available to sellers to always get away with unfair practices.

Let me give an alternative legal right that you may wish to employ, namely that granted under the Fair Trading Act.

Under the Fair Trading Act, a consumer may take action against the seller if unfair practice was involved. It is an unfair practice for a supplier, in relation to a consumer transaction to do or say anything, or omit to do or say anything, if as a result a consumer might reasonably be deceived or misled.

Also, an unfair practice may be one where the supplier takes advantage of a consumer if the supplier knows or ought reasonably to know that the consumer is not reasonably able to understand the ... nature...of the transaction or any matter related to the transaction.

However, this is a new piece of legislation without any case law to date interpreting the provisions. I would recommend you to seek assistance from CASE, although I understand that you would have to pay a S$50 or so fee if you wish them to represent you.

Not here to defend TCW or anyone but its always been buyers beware!

As for sueing them and prosecution, you could file a complain with CASE and they might get blacklisted by CASE but beyond that, i doubt you have the law on your side. Bringing them to court could backfire into a case of them sueing you for discrediting and defamation, which is more costly for you!

This is actually the first time I am hearing that filing an action in court constitutes defamation.

Actually, shops are not require by law to disclose their sources. MISREPRESENTATION only comes into effect when they blatantly promised you something but gave you another. Ie: Used lens sold as NEW. Or if they mix gray and official stocks together and sell them as the same thing. A grey set is new, it just isn't brought in by the distributor.

Actually, although silence in general does not amount to misrepresentation, in certain cases, silence can be considered as misrepresentation. To say that "misrepresentation only comes into effect when they blatantly promised..." may be an overgeneralisation. Where silence distorts positive represntation, it can amount to misrepresentation, e.g. a half truth may in fact be false because of what it leaves unsaid, although what was said was true in every detail.

In fact, there is recent local case law which states that misrepresentation may be by silence if there was wilful suppression of material and important facts, ie dishonest silence.

well said szekiat .. at least someone knows his law better than others just to shoot off using BIG words but SHALLOW knowledge.

I am curious to know on what basis you endorse one person's statement of the law as opposed to another's? :think:

Anyway, the above is not intended to be legal advice but other things for the thread starter to consider. As said earlier, you may wish to enlist the assistance of CASE if you feel strongly enough to do so.

 

[bernardsia]

mmm...actually whats the problem with the lens? and what cause of it?

My lens? There was nothing wring with it. I sent in a 70-300 APO II for exchange. So I decided to bring my 70-200 along. I thought there was something weird about a screw that sticks out at the rear. Find out it is suppose to act as a stopper. But before they took a look at my lens, the warranty had to be registered first.

 

[szekiat]

Under the terms stated on the warranty card, the card needs to be stamped in order for it to be valid.
If the warranty card had not been stamped, as is the case, the onus is on the customer to ensure that the card is in order before buying (ie: accepting the offer of sale; contract). The law does not protect customers who have merely made a bad deal, eg. if they fail to ensure that everything is in order. Had the customer noticed that the card had not been stamped when it should have been, he should have brought up the issue of warranty with the shop, which he didn't on the spot or later on.
BTW, misrepresentation can only be argued if the buyer finds that he has acquired something COMPLETELY different from what he originally contracted for. In this case, there is still a warranty for the product and a warrantee from the seller is not considered a completely different thing in substance than that from the agent and the seller never made a representation that the warrantee would be covered by the agent.
Even though the shop cannot withhold vital information from the seller, in this case the shop is entitled to assume that reasonably well informed members of the SG photog community would know of its reputation as a "grey goods" dealer, as has been shown here. Even if you claimed that you are not one of these ppl, as you have, the shop is entitled to claim that you should have been alerted by the fact that the price was cheaper.
With regards to defamation, i was misinformed and completely withdraw my statement.

 

[2100]

It is not about revealing the source, it is about telling who to lookout for the warranty. Already TCW people (from the previous posts) "assume" that the buyer knows. We cannot assume to know that this "ABC" shop is shop warranty only or distributor warranty only. If every m***** f***** is to call the agent or distributor to ask which shop holds the warranty from them, then the distributor will be so free. If this guy (assume an old man) dun know internet how? How he go and find out which is which distributor? He saw the warranty card, send it to the agent here, then only finds out it is grey set blah blah blah.

Then bo bian lor, that's the user's issue. I'm not referring to the original poster or anybody, but got warranty card means nothing, it's just a piece of paper. This is the same for many many other products. Come on, i mean.....this is really basic common sense right? TCW already sells their prices a fair bit low. It seems the most for a sigma 70-200, they can deal at 1250, while others like MS can be 1600.

You talk about assumptions. Hey, in a court of law can you feign ignorance just because you did not do "homework" that what has been done is a crime?

I mean, this kind of thing is basic and really should be auto. Read the fine print, read the contract, do homework...blah blah blah... If someone goes wrong, then blame other parties on bad practice? Come on.... want cheap, want good, want warranty, next time sell don't wanna lose much.....

 

[Terence]

Well, it was my first time getting a lens from a shop, which happens to be TCW. You mean i have to check with the shop if their stock is parallel import before i purchase them? I think that is unfair for consumers. Regarding the *slightly* cheaper, so what happen to those who don't check prices and make their first purchase from TCW, does that mean they have to go around comparing prices and discover that TCW is *slightly* cheaper. This is just my opinion to this issue. No hard feelings.

I find it surprising, that as a 2 year CSer with 2,000 over posts, you have not come across the numerous discussions about TCW and their greyware.

I personally find TCW one of the more trustworthy store with decent prices. They do not hide the grey status of the goods they sell. Their servicing is top notch, I have had experience using them in the past with no problems whatsoever.

You should just bring the lens back, Im sure they'll take care of the problem.

 

[Parchiao]

This is another stupid thread that ought to be closed.

The onus is on the buyer to know what he/she is buying from the retailer. The retailer is not at liberty to reveal all details about the item in question e.g. screw 1 on the mount is made in China while screw 2 on the body is made in Malaysia, even though the box says that the lens is made in Japan etc etc.

I read into the post that the buyer assumes the fault on the seller, when in actual fact, the buyer was the party at fault for not being careful in ensuring that he/she knows what he/she is buying. There was not even a single mention that the buyer made any attempt to ask about the warranty before making the purchase, but instead relied on his own personal judement which we all know is flawed. Neither have I come across anything that suggests that any misrepresentation took place at the point of purchase.

d.a.photo - You know nothing about the law. You post about misrepresenation is misrepresentation in itself. Read "I suggest working out an initiative with Sigma brand office to prosecute TCW". Really stupid. On what grounds do you have to give others advise that Sigma can take legal action against TCW or any other parallel importer? For those of you who make that claim that there is a case against TCW, you had better read up about basic contract law before making baseless assumptions.

 

[Adam Goi]

I believe enough has been said and indeed there are learning points for all.

The thread is hereby closed; let's move on.