One of the Best Camera Shop in Singa!

[GetMeEazy]

Yeap, I read post #14 to mean that he ended up with two diffusers instead of one

Hi all,

Thanks for sharing your opinions and sentiments... feel great to be here!!

Being a newbie..I was careless reg the diffuser..... but, when I realised that I had a diffuser with a falsh pack, I called them up..and they agreed to take back the diffuser. I visited the same day evening, I straigh t away asked the guy 'Why you didn'y inform me tad it'z a grey set..??' he was blushing and replied to me that 'We can give you the warranty. The difference between the original and grey set in our shop is just a piece of paper called WARRANTY' :dunno:

they paid me the money for the additional diffuser ,after taking it bak..they end up the issue by saying that it was a mis-communication, as I said one of the unit will be sent to India...and they thoughtdunno: ) that it was for him!! but on my first visit,they didn't say that there comes a diffuser with the unit itself... I can sum up by saying that, they MANAGED my diffuser thing when I went back!

Anyways...Lemme strt Falshing around!

thanks a lot for your inputs... it's a lession for me and other new bies...!

Have a Good day!!

Cheerz
Get

 

[Cheesecake]

Hi all,

Thanks for sharing your opinions and sentiments... feel great to be here!!

Being a newbie..I was careless reg the diffuser..... but, when I realised that I had a diffuser with a falsh pack, I called them up..and they agreed to take back the diffuser. I visited the same day evening, I straigh t away asked the guy 'Why you didn'y inform me tad it'z a grey set..??' he was blushing and replied to me that 'We can give you the warranty. The difference between the original and grey set in our shop is just a piece of paper called WARRANTY' :dunno:

they paid me the money for the additional diffuser ,after taking it bak..they end up the issue by saying that it was a mis-communication, as I said one of the unit will be sent to India...and they thoughtdunno: ) that it was for him!! but on my first visit,they didn't say that there comes a diffuser with the unit itself... I can sum up by saying that, they MANAGED my diffuser thing when I went back!

Anyways...Lemme strt Falshing around!

thanks a lot for your inputs... it's a lession for me and other new bies...!

Have a Good day!!

Cheerz
Get

wa... jus a piece of paper! so that is WARRANTY to them!
does this mean they will gif warranties to all brand new products bought from them at the buyer's request without additional charges? wooooooo!!

wow, TCW is really opening up for local photographers and being so accomodating is totally awesome!

and kudos to them for buying back something that they had sold to u without u knowing that the product comes with that particular item. its an outstanding gesture from TCW.

i think they are changing. :bsmilie:

 

[waileong]

I would disagree on the "you've been had" part. TCW is very reputable, their warranty is good enough.

I'll share an example of a shop warranty, I bought a 2nd hand Minilux from Prime, it came with a 6-month warranty, the camera developed the E02 error and Prime honoured their warranty (which means they prob lost $$ on the sale, because only Leica in Germany has the parts to replace the shutter mechanism).

The idea that only the original manufacturer's warranty is good enough is dated in today's world, where parallel imports are the norm in many industries, eg. cars.

I am sorry to disappoint you or pour cold water

Point 1.
A SB800 comes with diffuser, flash stand and color gel complete and 1 year local or International warranty recognized by Nikon Singapore. There is no such thing as having to buy the stuff separately. I know cos I owned 4 sets before. And even when I sold them 2nd hand in the B&S in CS, it also goes complete, nothing less. And this complete set cost will range from probably $630 - $628 or less if you get from the Mass Order of International Warranty set from the ppl here.

Point 2.
So with $597 + $25 (for diffuser) it will work out to $622 which is close to what Cathay Photo at Comex is selling. This sounds fair. Now look at Point 3 the most important part.

Point 3.
There is such a term called "grey sets" (do a search here in CS and you have a very good understanding after that). Basically grey set do not have warranty in this case Nikon Singapore do not recognized grey sets and will not warranty it at all. The shops that carries it actually gives their own warranty.


To check if yours is the grey set, first look for the warranty card, go to Nikon Singapore and check with them whether warranty is recognized or is it a grey set.


Bottomline, I am afraid you have been had.

 

[kingpin]

I would disagree on the "you've been had" part. TCW is very reputable, their warranty is good enough.

I'll share an example of a shop warranty, I bought a 2nd hand Minilux from Prime, it came with a 6-month warranty, the camera developed the E02 error and Prime honoured their warranty (which means they prob lost $$ on the sale, because only Leica in Germany has the parts to replace the shutter mechanism).

The idea that only the original manufacturer's warranty is good enough is dated in today's world, where parallel imports are the norm in many industries, eg. cars.

The example you quoted was of shop named Prime. How does this make TCW "very reputable"?

 

[chngpe01]

The idea that only the original manufacturer's warranty is good enough is dated in today's world, where parallel imports are the norm in many industries, eg. cars.

Well the recent saga of Toyota parallel import owners who got caught in a fixed on the recall of parts replacement thingy shows how dated or "un dated" is the theory. Basically some of the parallel import car owners do not even have the shop who sells them the car to honor any warranty cos they closed down.

Anyway, the issues I have stated not once but many times, is that why have the shop not tell the customer up front that the set is grey? The buyer has been had because he thought he got a good deal including local warranty.

 

[Cheesecake]

I would disagree on the "you've been had" part. TCW is very reputable, their warranty is good enough.

I'll share an example of a shop warranty, I bought a 2nd hand Minilux from Prime, it came with a 6-month warranty, the camera developed the E02 error and Prime honoured their warranty (which means they prob lost $$ on the sale, because only Leica in Germany has the parts to replace the shutter mechanism).

The idea that only the original manufacturer's warranty is good enough is dated in today's world, where parallel imports are the norm in many industries, eg. cars.

this reinforced my views that Prime Camera is reputable and the 2nd hand camera shop to visit and patronise.

thanks for ur recommendation.:thumbsup:

cheers!

 

[vince123123]

Unfortunately, it appears that the practice is the retailers think they are under no obligation to inform the customer that the set is gray. So long as they dont misrepresent that there is local warranty, they think they are in the clear.

This is unfortunately a sad practice - however, I do note that the Consumer Protection (Fair Trading) Act would provide redress if anyone is aggrieved by this practice. In particular, it is an unfair practice for a supplier, in relation to a consumer transaction, to do or say anything, or omit to do or say anything, if as a result a consumer might reasonably be deceived or misled.

The ownside however, is of course the time and effort (and maybe some small money) required to take action to enforce it.

Anyway, the issues I have stated not once but many times, is that why have the shop not tell the customer up front that the set is grey? The buyer has been had because he thought he got a good deal including local warranty.

 

[regit]

My personal experience with TCW has been a positive one. Couple of years ago when I started to shop for stuff in Singapore (got all my stuff overseas prior to that), and seems that Don is the only one knowledgeable to know what I want. For example, mentioned a UV-Nikkor to Prime or CP and all I got was a Nikon L37c filter or a blank look... This year, I bought a Noctilux from TCW, I got local warranty as they got the lens from CP, the difference being that TCW was willing to negotiate the price while CP was not. IMHO, all shops have the objective of maximizing profit, and consumers should take some effort to ask, check, compare and shop around.

 

[hongsien]

The example you quoted was of shop named Prime. How does this make TCW "very reputable"?

He is talking about parallel import with shops warranty is good enough, warranty is similar.......(unless they repair the article themselves, you don't know where parts are coming).

HS

 

[hongsien]

The example you quoted was of shop named Prime. How does this make TCW "very reputable"?

He is talking about parallel import with shops warranty is good enough, warranty is similar.......(unless they repair the article themselves, you don't know where parts are coming from).

HS

 

[jdredd]

i think there are 2 tales here..

for those in the know, and know exactly what is grey, what is not etc, and walk into TCW with all the pre-requisite knowledge and exactly what it is they are buying, TCW can be a great and useful place to get camera gear. and so far my encounters with them have all been reasonably pleasant. but maybe its because they also know... that we know..

but it does surprise me a little to see that they didnt not explain fully the implications of buying grey to the purchaser.. and thats a little naughty imo. sure, a shop warranty, in effect can be as good as a manufacturer's warranty, but some people may see that differenty. some people may also be buying to take overseas, where a local shop warranty will mean exactly zilch.

 

[canongrapherL]

why bother to buy grey sets that are only a little cheaper?

Might as well buy from individual like Oracle whose items are warrantied by Canon themselves? The price is about the same but I would have preferred local direct warranty with canon.

For example, if you have a back/front focus issue with your lens, you can go straight to Canon to show them and explain the problem yourself clearly. But if you have purchased a grey set, you can only send back to the shop you purchased it from. And if you want to send in your camera body togther to check for calibration, the shop will have to handle the camera and transport both your camera and body to Canon or some third party repair shop. (Who knows what can happen during the transporation?)

Also for those who like to buy and sell. They will also know that the grey sets are generally not as saleable as the local warantied ones thereby reducing their value in some circumstances.

 

[waileong]

1. Shops would argue, on the basis of the price of the items sold (ie less than official retail price) and the common knowledge available at place like CS, that the consumer should have known it is a parallel import, esp. if the user was told that he cannot send the warranty registration card to the local agent.

2. Do you need money to enforce such an action? Is it through a civil action or through a complaint which will be investigated by the relevant authorities.

Wai Leong
===

Unfortunately, it appears that the practice is the retailers think they are under no obligation to inform the customer that the set is gray. So long as they dont misrepresent that there is local warranty, they think they are in the clear.

This is unfortunately a sad practice - however, I do note that the Consumer Protection (Fair Trading) Act would provide redress if anyone is aggrieved by this practice. In particular, it is an unfair practice for a supplier, in relation to a consumer transaction, to do or say anything, or omit to do or say anything, if as a result a consumer might reasonably be deceived or misled.

The ownside however, is of course the time and effort (and maybe some small money) required to take action to enforce it.

 

[waileong]

1. There is a difference between a repair and a recall. It is the manufacturer's job to replace parts in the case of a recall (which are normally done only for safety reasons, since recalls are at the manufacturer's expense and are quite expensive worldwide exercises). The fact that the parallel importer of the car has gone bust should not make a difference, because the manufacturer pays for the recall.

2. Most parallel car importers have appointed workshops to act as servicing agents in case of warranty repairs. For Japanese and Korean cars, which form a large part of the market here, parts and service expertise is so common, it really isn't an issue. And frankly, even if the parallel importer goes bankrupt and can't honour the warranty, the savings from the price is likely to more than offset the cost of warranty-related repairs.

3. Parallel importers are not the only guys who go bankrupt, think again. Authorised agents do too. Some of them even took deposits on new cars and the owners were left fuming when the agent when bankrupt and they lost their deposits to other creditors.

3. The buyer is not had because the warranty IS local. The warranty is from TCW rather than Canon service centre. Yes, there is a difference, but is it worth the price difference? Most modern products hardly fail these days, so the cost of warranty is really quite profitable for the manufacturer. If TCW is willing to bear the risk, and sell the product at a cheaper price to boot, why the prejudice against TCW?

Wai Leong
===

Well the recent saga of Toyota parallel import owners who got caught in a fixed on the recall of parts replacement thingy shows how dated or "un dated" is the theory. Basically some of the parallel import car owners do not even have the shop who sells them the car to honor any warranty cos they closed down.

Anyway, the issues I have stated not once but many times, is that why have the shop not tell the customer up front that the set is grey? The buyer has been had because he thought he got a good deal including local warranty.

 

[kingpin]

He is talking about parallel import with shops warranty is good enough, warranty is similar.......(unless they repair the article themselves, you don't know where parts are coming).

HS

Oh I thought he (and we) was talking about TCW? I read the opening line as he (waileong) stating that TCW is "very reputable".

Even if we are talking about warranty I don't think it is a simple matter of saying that warranty (OEM and local shop) is the similar. I can agree that in some cases that the shop warranty may be good enough.

 

[chngpe01]

1. There is a difference between a repair and a recall. It is the manufacturer's job to replace parts in the case of a recall (which are normally done only for safety reasons, since recalls are at the manufacturer's expense and are quite expensive worldwide exercises). The fact that the parallel importer of the car has gone bust should not make a difference, because the manufacturer pays for the recall.

2. Most parallel car importers have appointed workshops to act as servicing agents in case of warranty repairs. For Japanese and Korean cars, which form a large part of the market here, parts and service expertise is so common, it really isn't an issue. And frankly, even if the parallel importer goes bankrupt and can't honour the warranty, the savings from the price is likely to more than offset the cost of warranty-related repairs.

3. Parallel importers are not the only guys who go bankrupt, think again. Authorised agents do too. Some of them even took deposits on new cars and the owners were left fuming when the agent when bankrupt and they lost their deposits to other creditors.

3. The buyer is not had because the warranty IS local. The warranty is from TCW rather than Canon service centre. Yes, there is a difference, but is it worth the price difference? Most modern products hardly fail these days, so the cost of warranty is really quite profitable for the manufacturer. If TCW is willing to bear the risk, and sell the product at a cheaper price to boot, why the prejudice against TCW?

Wai Leong
===

Anyway this will never end and is also a waste of time to argue.

If you think the best Shop in Singapore is one who do not tell their customer that they sell grey set and setting the customer thinking otherwise, at the same time let the customer buy extra diffuser without even advising them, so be it. The mere fact that the TS thinks that he is buying with local warranty and also extra diffuser(not knowing the set he bought has already has one) at a good price and the shop fails to tell him otherwise he has been had, period.

If the TS did not even posted here and got the numerous comments from us, he would have ended up not only buying grey set, thinking it is normal but also having to buy extra diffuser.

Of course the issue of diffuser was "resolve" only after the TS realised (from our comments in CS) and went back to the shop to sort it out. If he would to buy from a "Best Camera Shop" eg John 3:16 the disffuser issue would not even happen cos they will tell him that the SB800 comes with all the accessories and give him good advice rather then trying to earn the extra bucks (ie sell the diffuser).

Everyone has his/her own yardstick to measure what is best, some are more stringent and some lesser.

Rather than doing nothing or arguing for the sake of arguing, I am just glad that I have done my part to help the TS and at least he now knows what is grey set and perhaps wiser in buying photo equipment.

No more post from me here (unless it is a flame on me)

 

[waileong]

Anyway this will never end and is also a waste of time to argue.

I agree, arguing is a waste of time, but I didn't think we were arguing.

I only wanted to make three points:

a. TCW is very reputable and will probably honour their warranty. That is not the same as saying they are the best in Singapore, Johor or even Batam.

b. Store warranty not that bad compared to agent warranty. And it is still a LOCAL waranty. The savings in cost may be worth it to some.

c. Don't be so biased against TCW. They are a good shop, have been around for ages, good range of products, and have very helpful and very knowledgeable staff. There's no pressure to buy, and their second-hand product range is second to none.

 

[vince123123]

They can argue all they like - if an independent survey was conducted on the average customer entering a camera shop, I would bet my money on the fact that the majority would not know of the existence of the concept of gray products. It is likely that a majority will not know to ask whether it is gray or not.

Unfortunately, you need money for everything.

There are two main ways to enforce. One is to take out an action of your own in the Small Claims Tribunal - costs are minimal, but still there.

The other way is to lodge a complaint with CASE, who is the specified body in the Act for non-tourist cases. Again, a small fee is involved. CASE will attempt to mediate, or where CASE is satisfed there was an unfair practice, invite the supplier to enter into a voluntary compliance agreement. If the supplier refuses, CASE can escalate it to taking out an injunction/declaration action against the supplier provided they get approval from the Injunction Proposals Review Panel.

There are no criminal sanctions as of yet for an unfair practice.

1. Shops would argue, on the basis of the price of the items sold (ie less than official retail price) and the common knowledge available at place like CS, that the consumer should have known it is a parallel import, esp. if the user was told that he cannot send the warranty registration card to the local agent.

2. Do you need money to enforce such an action? Is it through a civil action or through a complaint which will be investigated by the relevant authorities.

Wai Leong
===

 

[dom72]

Its true that the Grey or Gray market does exist especially in electronics retail (mobile phones, ipods, cameras, etc) . . . but the point is when the transaction was made, was the consumer informed of the lack of warranty cover from the agent?

Unlike parallel import car dealers who cover your auto purchase with their own workshop, electronic shops pass the risk to the buyer. Its still fine and fair if the buyer had gone into the deal with eyes open, knowing that the more affordable price tag comes with a condition.

So, it will be unfair practice if a shop as reputable as TCW (whom we totally trust) fails to inform the buyer.

I just bought a camera and lens at such a shop where I felt very comfortable with. The price quoted was one of the lowest around, which I thought was due to my good looks and warm personality.

So, I took for granted that this reputed and friendly shop which services many professionals, would sell products with agents' warranty (especially it was not in Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza). But when I got home, I went 'limp' with disappointment to find a HK document in the box.

What's worse, they did not even mention that my purchase would be covered by them personally. Guess we need to be screwed to become wiser . . . or would we ever?

 

[vince123123]

Please name the shop so that we know to ask next time we visit.

Its true that the Grey or Gray market does exist especially in electronics retail (mobile phones, ipods, cameras, etc) . . . but the point is when the transaction was made, was the consumer informed of the lack of warranty cover from the agent?

Unlike parallel import car dealers who cover your auto purchase with their own workshop, electronic shops pass the risk to the buyer. Its still fine and fair if the buyer had gone into the deal with eyes open, knowing that the more affordable price tag comes with a condition.

So, it will be unfair practice if a shop as reputable as TCW (whom we totally trust) fails to inform the buyer.

I just bought a camera and lens at such a shop where I felt very comfortable with. The price quoted was one of the lowest around, which I thought was due to my good looks and warm personality.

So, I took for granted that this reputed and friendly shop which services many professionals, would sell products with agents' warranty (especially it was not in Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza). But when I got home, I went 'limp' with disappointment to find a HK document in the box.

What's worse, they did not even mention that my purchase would be covered by them personally. Guess we need to be screwed to become wiser . . . or would we ever?