Official Sony A7 or A7r discussion thread (Season II)

[ricleo]

true the FE lenses are performing superbly on the A7R. but this is also because of the A7R sensor without the AA filter. did you read that lens rental article? http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/12/sony-a7r-a-rising-tide-lifts-all-the-boats

some folks on Dpreview has also shown that if you put the FE 55 1.8 on a NEX7, the highest resolution APSC E mount camera, it is actually beaten by the cheap Sigma 60 2.8.

Sony's strategy is anyone's guess, but my guess is that they will milk fullframe mirrorless cashcow for as long as they can by building OSS on lenses, perhaps until a competitor releases a similar full frame mirrorless, things will change.

why doesn't the FE55 and FE35 have OSS? that's probably because typically most manufacturers do not put IS/OSS/VR on their short primes. Canon and sony are probably the only ones with IS/OSS on their 35mm F1.8 and 35mm F2 IS.

Yes, this is the main hurdle they have to overcome

The FE lenses are already differentiated by outperforming everything that is out there and if they are doing what you suggest for profit, why did the first two primes not have stabilisation. It stands to reason that IBIS is coming.

 

[Thoth]

true the FE lenses are performing superbly on the A7R. but this is also because of the A7R sensor without the AA filter. did you read that lens rental article? http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/12/sony-a7r-a-rising-tide-lifts-all-the-boats some folks on Dpreview has also shown that if you put the FE 55 1.8 on a NEX7, the highest resolution APSC E mount camera, it is actually beaten by the cheap Sigma 60 2.8. Sony's strategy is anyone's guess, but my guess is that they will milk fullframe mirrorless cashcow for as long as they can by building OSS on lenses, perhaps until a competitor releases a similar full frame mirrorless, things will change. why doesn't the FE55 and FE35 have OSS? that's probably because typically most manufacturers do not put IS/OSS/VR on their short primes. Canon and sony are probably the only ones with IS/OSS on their 35mm F1.8 and 35mm F2 IS.

E mount apsc 50/1.8 have OSS.

 

[wheresmycheese]

Hi anyone knows if there is an upgrade of firmware. mine is currently 1.01 for sony A7. cannot seem to find much information on firmwares!

 

[tsammyc]

The FE55 needs some form of stabilization. I'm usually shooting at 1/250th

 

[Errz]

Hi anyone knows if there is an upgrade of firmware. mine is currently 1.01 for sony A7. cannot seem to find much information on firmwares!

cause there is no firmware update. if have,u can download from sony.com.sg.

u can check out Nex-7 to see how it looks like if there's firmware update. http://www.sony.com.sg/support/product/nex-7k click on download and select ur computer OS.

 

[syke]

The FE55 needs some form of stabilization. I'm usually shooting at 1/250th

wow... shaky hands bro... hehe

 

[tsammyc]

wow... shaky hands bro... hehe

Actually, I have very steady hands. Go figure...

 

[ricleo]

Actually, I have very steady hands. Go figure...

apparently not steady enough then. perhaps reduce caffeine intake? i can get sharp shots easily at 1/60-1/100s with the FE55 1.8.

some of the online discussions on the supposed "shutter shock" says adding a weight to the bottom of the camera helps, and also using heavier lense on the camera helps. does using battery grip help in your case?

 

[tsammyc]

some folks on Dpreview has also shown that if you put the FE 55 1.8 on a NEX7, the highest resolution APSC E mount camera, it is actually beaten by the cheap Sigma 60 2.8.

Sony's strategy is anyone's guess, but my guess is that they will milk fullframe mirrorless cashcow for as long as they can by building OSS on lenses, perhaps until a competitor releases a similar full frame mirrorless, things will change.

why doesn't the FE55 and FE35 have OSS? that's probably because typically most manufacturers do not put IS/OSS/VR on their short primes. Canon and sony are probably the only ones with IS/OSS on their 35mm F1.8 and 35mm F2 IS.

Some other folks on DPreview also pointed out that the NEX-7 is uniquely difficult with many lenses not designed for it. In fact I sold mine for a NEX-6 for that reason. If you look at DXOMark, you can see that the Nikon 7100, which uses the same APS-C sensor as the NEX-7 gets 30% higher resolution scores than the best scores on the NEX-7. If you compare the 55FE to full frame lenses from Canon and Nikon on DXOMark, the 55FE (and Otus) are in a different league.

Building OSS on lenses is not something only Sony can do. I've been using a stabilised Sigma 150mm OS macro lens with my NEX-6 for years. It works great. If Sigma wanted to put OS on their E-mount lenses, they could. Clearly Sony knows that lenses like the 55FE need stablisation of some sort for people to shoot at lower shutter speeds on a 36MP camera, so if they want to sell more 36MP, it makes sense for them to put in IBIS.

With higher pixel counts on light cameras, it will make sense for more and more manufacturers to put either IBIS in cameras or OS in lenses. The fact that they didn't in the 55FE points me to the future existence of IBIS in their mirrorless cameras. I would imagine that they are working on a "pro" mirrorless like the E-M1.

 

[tsammyc]

apparently not steady enough then. perhaps reduce caffeine intake? i can get sharp shots easily at 1/60-1/100s with the FE55 1.8.

some of the online discussions on the supposed "shutter shock" says adding a weight to the bottom of the camera helps, and also using heavier lense on the camera helps. does using battery grip help in your case?

Yes. the battery grip helps. I'm surprised that you can shoot at 1/60th. With 36MP its not obvious. But when you pixel peep it's very clear. Please post some samples and their 100% crops.

 

[ricleo]

Yes. the battery grip helps. I'm surprised that you can shoot at 1/60th. With 36MP its not obvious. But when you pixel peep it's very clear. Please post some samples and their 100% crops.

this is a handheld sample i happened to take last night with the 55mm. first one full image 2nd one showing 100% crops. 1/60 secs JPEG ISO 1000 high iso reduction off. My results are usually like this, don't see any impact of shutter shock or movement due to slow shutter speeds.

 

[tsammyc]

No evidence of shake. I might be able to get that once awhile at 1/60th if I am seated with my arms resting on something or leaning against a wall, but if I do random shooting while walking around at 1/60th, at most about 20% will be sharp at 100%.

 

[keithwee]

Clearly Sony knows that lenses like the 55FE need stablisation of some sort for people to shoot at lower shutter speeds on a 36MP camera, so if they want to sell more 36MP, it makes sense for them to put in IBIS.

The fact that they didn't in the 55FE points me to the future existence of IBIS in their mirrorless cameras. I would imagine that they are working on a "pro" mirrorless like the E-M1.

that's really an assumption you are making here bro I'd never assume the lack of built in stabilization on a lens from a system that is already building OSS on some of its other lenses will lead to the conclusion of an upcoming body with IS. But let's hope you are right and that Sony won't wait for years like Panny to do so. Ricleo showed quite clearly that 1/60 speeds are still very manageable with a 55mm.

 

[tsammyc]

that's really an assumption you are making here bro I'd never assume the lack of built in stabilization on a lens from a system that is already building OSS on some of its other lenses will lead to the conclusion of an upcoming body with IS. But let's hope you are right and that Sony won't wait for years like Panny to do so. Ricleo showed quite clearly that 1/60 speeds are still very manageable with a 55mm.

We're all making assumptions including your assumption that Sony will build OSS lenses to make money My hypothesis (not conclusion) was also based on the fact that Sony has had a long history of putting IBIS in camera bodies (SLTs).

While Ricleo is able to handhold at 1/60, if you check the internet, you will find that very few people can so it's quite an assumption that you are making here bro off one sample

 

[syke]

No evidence of shake. I might be able to get that once awhile at 1/60th if I am seated with my arms resting on something or leaning against a wall, but if I do random shooting while walking around at 1/60th, at most about 20% will be sharp at 100%.

Must practice the marksman techniques they taught us in the army. hehe..

always work for me...

 

[keithwee]

We're all making assumptions including your assumption that Sony will build OSS lenses to make money My hypothesis (not conclusion) was also based on the fact that Sony has had a long history of putting IBIS in camera bodies (SLTs). While Ricleo is able to handhold at 1/60, if you check the internet, you will find that very few people can so it's quite an assumption that you are making here bro off one sample

Understood, true , maybe I'm short sighted in that I see Sony as one profit maximizing mechanism with little long term support for its product lines.

I'll go and pray for the debut of a FF Mirrorless with 5 axis IBIS and electronic shutter from Sony. it's a happy ending anyway if I'm proven wrong in my guess that Sony won't include IBIS in its FF Mirrorless line. Nothing lost in hoping haha.

But really ... One thing which I'm also guilty off is that a lot of people really need to brush up our techniques. Tech is fast making the need for good shooting techniques obsolete.

 

[ricleo]

No evidence of shake. I might be able to get that once awhile at 1/60th if I am seated with my arms resting on something or leaning against a wall, but if I do random shooting while walking around at 1/60th, at most about 20% will be sharp at 100%.

nope, that shot was not leaning against anything or bracing against any support. This below is a 200mm F2.8 shot at 1/60s also shot last night, which i really was seated and braced against a chair. but shows what proper technique can achieve. If talking about shooting candids during random walkabout, you need faster shutterspeed to freeze the motion of the subject or to freeze action on account of user movement due to walking. If you are not keeping still, it is not the camera having shutter shock causing image shake. it is the user not keeping still.

200mm F2.8 1/60 sec ISO 6400

 

[silgt]

HCB must be turning in his grave and thinking...damm if they put stabilisation on my Leica back then, all my shots will be tact sharp and I might not be "that" famous after all...mon dieu!

That said, Sony is a corporation with an aim to maximise their competitive advantage and make sh*t load of cash whenever they can. Gone are those days where the Big 2 dominates the market. Sony with their prowess in sensor technology (being the largest camera sensor supplier in the world) have enable them to leap to the forefront of the mirrorless breakthrough, and I'm all thankful for that due to my old shoulder and also to stop Leica's insatiable attempt to break my bank with their ridiculous price tag for their bodies. I believe that while they do have access to Olympus 5-axis technology, but due to the physical limitation to suspend a FF sensor in a small body, I believe it is very different from doing the same to a M4/3 sensor with everything being equal. At the end of the day, we can all make guesses but I don't think going 5-axis on the A9 will be possible or reluctant for Sony to undertake. I firmly believed that the bodies for A7/R are heavily subsidised for a reason, that it is to allow Sony to have kinda proprietary control on their lenses. Going with an in-body stabilisation will allow the competitor to home in on this lucrative part of their business. I believe if Canon/Nikon were to build similar bodies, they will go the very same direction. It will be the battle of VHS/Betamax all over again, and the more control Sony can have within their eco system, the better it will benefit Sony as a brand and a company. Well that's just my personal opinion, which is as valid as the next guy's. :sweat:

 

[albertri]

HCB must be turning in his grave and thinking...damm if they put stabilisation on my Leica back then, all my shots will be tact sharp and I might not be "that" famous after all...mon dieu!

That said, Sony is a corporation with an aim to maximise their competitive advantage and make sh*t load of cash whenever they can. Gone are those days where the Big 2 dominates the market. Sony with their prowess in sensor technology (being the largest camera sensor supplier in the world) have enable them to leap to the forefront of the mirrorless breakthrough, and I'm all thankful for that due to my old shoulder and also to stop Leica's insatiable attempt to break my bank with their ridiculous price tag for their bodies. I believe that while they do have access to Olympus 5-axis technology, but due to the physical limitation to suspend a FF sensor in a small body, I believe it is very different from doing the same to a M4/3 sensor with everything being equal. At the end of the day, we can all make guesses but I don't think going 5-axis on the A9 will be possible or reluctant for Sony to undertake. I firmly believed that the bodies for A7/R are heavily subsidised for a reason, that it is to allow Sony to have kinda proprietary control on their lenses. Going with an in-body stabilisation will allow the competitor to home in on this lucrative part of their business. I believe if Canon/Nikon were to build similar bodies, they will go the very same direction. It will be the battle of VHS/Betamax all over again, and the more control Sony can have within their eco system, the better it will benefit Sony as a brand and a company. Well that's just my personal opinion, which is as valid as the next guy's. :sweat:

the big two doesn't have IBIS since day one and all SLR back days too why no one from these two camps complaint about it? also not all their lens has OSS also most of their fast primes don't have optical stabilization...

Like I said all systems have shortcoming if you bought or adapt that system you much learn how to walk around it's weakness e.g. for a7r can't used RF UWA or wide lenses as it has one of the worst magenta cast so what to do? don't use RF wide/UWA use the SLR wide/uwa or when Sony releases use their native UWA/wide buy it.

 

[Thoth]

HCB must be turning in his grave and thinking...damm if they put stabilisation on my Leica back then, all my shots will be tact sharp and I might not be "that" famous after all...mon dieu! That said, Sony is a corporation with an aim to maximise their competitive advantage and make sh*t load of cash whenever they can. Gone are those days where the Big 2 dominates the market. Sony with their prowess in sensor technology (being the largest camera sensor supplier in the world) have enable them to leap to the forefront of the mirrorless breakthrough, and I'm all thankful for that due to my old shoulder and also to stop Leica's insatiable attempt to break my bank with their ridiculous price tag for their bodies. I believe that while they do have access to Olympus 5-axis technology, but due to the physical limitation to suspend a FF sensor in a small body, I believe it is very different from doing the same to a M4/3 sensor with everything being equal. At the end of the day, we can all make guesses but I don't think going 5-axis on the A9 will be possible or reluctant for Sony to undertake. I firmly believed that the bodies for A7/R are heavily subsidised for a reason, that it is to allow Sony to have kinda proprietary control on their lenses. Going with an in-body stabilisation will allow the competitor to home in on this lucrative part of their business. I believe if Canon/Nikon were to build similar bodies, they will go the very same direction. It will be the battle of VHS/Betamax all over again, and the more control Sony can have within their eco system, the better it will benefit Sony as a brand and a company. Well that's just my personal opinion, which is as valid as the next guy's. :sweat:

HCB doesn't even care on d first place. LOL. We, the current generation of photogs r conditioned to keep chasing d perfect gears rather than getting d perfect moment captured.

Carpe Diem.