Official Sony A7 or A7r discussion thread (Season II)

[albertri]

It might just be that you have not shot in similar situations yet (eg. cityscapes+light source direct at lens) The A7r may have a different sensor cover glass and some reports suggest that the effect is 'dimmed down'. But it certainly affects even the FE35
I'm just trying to come to some sort of understanding if this will mess up photos so badly that I can't risk using it as my only tour/landscape/cityscape camera. My feeling for now (still ongoing) is that it can be pretty ugly, but generally can be cloned out. I will carry my DP1m as a backup when necessary.

Thanks bro for the info looking at this this is totally different to Olympus issue before where it has issue with strong light source and it's produces like a sun spot. But looking at the same pix this is not very good and welcoming issue.

I have not personally seen this issue with my pix but nevertheless I have not really shot night with strong light sources and shot long exposure longer the 30a. I will try to replicate see if I could reproduce the issue using my wide lenses.

 

[spinworkxroy]

It's the same. When you shoot 300mm in full-frame, then crop the result into 10mpix (at the center), you'll get the same IQ as if you set the A7 into APS-C mode and shoot with 300mm x1.5. Because you're using the same center area of the sensor to capture in APS-C size instead of the whole sensor (full-frame).

The only difference I can think of is that you can frame the picture properly during the shot if you set the camera to APS-C mode, if your intention is to make use the full 450mm.
But shooting at full-frame mode give you more flexibility during cropping, e.g. you can crop a 12mpix or 15mpix size, slightly to the left/right/etc.

I agree..it should be the same.
I actually used the 70300G on the A7r and use it at the zoo and most of the time i was using it in APSC mode at 450mm at 15mp.
Why? Several reasons:
1) At 450mm, it's easier to frame he shot you one vs shooting in FF and cropping.
2) It saves you time having to crop every single photo you shoot if you already shoot in APSC and frame it how you want it
3) Especially when the animal;s eyes are so small, shooting in FF, sometimes you can't tell if the eyes are open or close but in APSC mode, it's easier and you can shoot when the eyes are open.
4) Lastly, for the A7r, shooting inR AW at 36mp, you will downsize it in post to something much smaller for online, so why not just shoot at 15mp in APSC mode in the first place..you will still downsize it again. it just saves time on the workflow for post production

 

[baa tanhaa]

I agree..it should be the same.
I actually used the 70300G on the A7r and use it at the zoo and most of the time i was using it in APSC mode at 450mm at 15mp.
Why? Several reasons:
1) At 450mm, it's easier to frame he shot you one vs shooting in FF and cropping.
2) It saves you time having to crop every single photo you shoot if you already shoot in APSC and frame it how you want it
3) Especially when the animal;s eyes are so small, shooting in FF, sometimes you can't tell if the eyes are open or close but in APSC mode, it's easier and you can shoot when the eyes are open.
4) Lastly, for the A7r, shooting inR AW at 36mp, you will downsize it in post to something much smaller for online, so why not just shoot at 15mp in APSC mode in the first place..you will still downsize it again. it just saves time on the workflow for post production

thanks for the alternate view of shooting in apsc.. for your case with A7R, makes a lot of sense.. anyway, people who are using the LA-EA4, how is the shutter lag? read online that it can be quite bad if shooting moving objects (kids, birds in flight)?

 

[Anders]

Ive read good reviews From Tamron 24-70 from Canon and Nikon mount so it should have the same performance on Sony FF including A7/r.

I am also thinking of this lens. Seems this lens performs better than the Sigma counter parts.

I have to agree the siggy isnt that good.

Anyway just wondering if I need an adapter for tamron if I were to get the 1 with Sony mount?

 

[m3vapour]

thanks for the alternate view of shooting in apsc.. for your case with A7R, makes a lot of sense.. anyway, people who are using the LA-EA4, how is the shutter lag? read online that it can be quite bad if shooting moving objects (kids, birds in flight)?

On the la-ea4 its not so much about shutter lag but AF speed when paired with certain lenses...It varies from lens to lens actually. Like on the 85mm f/1.4 zeiss, its literally a tortoise when it comes to auto-focusing. You'll be better off manual focusing with that lens when paired with the la-ea4. AF speed is Useable for kids with the 2470 f/2.8 zeiss lens though , friend uses it for his kid. Truth be told, even on faster cameras , toddlers running around's always a challenge.

You can actually rent the laea4 and some a mount lenses for a weekend and try it for yourself to see if it meets your expectations. They are readily available.

 

[Anders]

Btw, I am going hong kong soon. Is it advisable to get the A7r from there? If so, whats the price there and which shop should I look out for?

What lens should I pair with it for starters?

 

[syke]

Sample #3 taken yesterday for the sensor reflection problem.
This time its with a Voigtlander 12/5.6, so its certainly not isolated to one-two lenses.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29329237@N07/12733472424/
DSC0473620140223ILCE-7-sensor_refection by jenkwang, on Flickr

However, its fixable in post with about 5 mins of cloning.
Doable, but certainly an irritation and dependant on being able to find similar textured/lighting/items to clone into.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29329237@N07/12732973825/
DSC0473620140223ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr

It does look bad... Sigh....

 

[syke]

Wow this is bad widest lens I have is 19 and 21 mm so far not seen this issue on A7r is this isolated to RF lenses or even SLR and FE lens?

It's the reflection being bounced back and forth between the sensor and the last element. This is what happens when it's an E mount , E for eighteen milimeters flange distance. Too short lah....

 

[syke]

Btw, I am going hong kong soon. Is it advisable to get the A7r from there? If so, whats the price there and which shop should I look out for?

What lens should I pair with it for starters?

Walk around Mongkok is sufficient, get a couple of quotes before you bite the bullet.

Go to SIM city. There are quite a number of shops there under one roof.

Avoid the big name stores like Fortress and Broadway. Those are places to chop carrot heads of mainlanders.

Remember to ask for tourist warranty.

Weather is getting warmer here, no need to bring too much warm clothing.

 

[m3vapour]

It's the reflection being bounced back and forth between the sensor and the last element. This is what happens when it's an E mount , E for eighteen milimeters flange distance. Too short lah....

The reflection problem wasnt a big deal actually if its well controlled but the magnitude of it on the a7 steered me away from it to choose the a7r instead.If its obviously visible , its a little hard to take.
This problem has been an ongoing discussion on forums such as dpreview for a while now. The issue has been analyzed by many users and it came down to the a7's sensor design. A7 having more sensor stacks than the a7r. Another group of photographers from hk claims its is actually the thickness of the low pass filter causing internal reflection. Got this thread form hk via dpreview.

http://www.omuser.com/thread-222233-1-6.html

On both dpreview and other user threads such as that from the hk forums, a7r users dont seem to be affected by it or notice it. I myself have not seen any thus far even with light sources such as spotlights pointed straight at my lens. So far so good on the a7r.
Truth be told, internal reflections have been present on the NEX but no one really talked about it cuz it wasnt as visible as that on the a7. I've seen it at least once or twice on the nex6 but brushed it off cuz it was hardly visible or rarely seen in my photos. No problems on the nex 5n/ 7.

 

[albertri]

It's the reflection being bounced back and forth between the sensor and the last element. This is what happens when it's an E mount , E for eighteen milimeters flange distance. Too short lah....

No wonder this doesn't show in my pix I mainly use SLR lenses

 

[Anders]

Walk around Mongkok is sufficient, get a couple of quotes before you bite the bullet.

Go to SIM city. There are quite a number of shops there under one roof.

Avoid the big name stores like Fortress and Broadway. Those are places to chop carrot heads of mainlanders.

Remember to ask for tourist warranty.

Weather is getting warmer here, no need to bring too much warm clothing.

Oh, you are at Hk now? What is the price range there now at HK?

 

[jennzhen]

Now that you mentioned it, I found it on my NEX-5 too. I found the sensor reflection on 2 sets so far:
[1] Streetlights above Esplanade Bridge
[2] The moon (yeah the moon was very bright that day)
Both using UWA 10-18mm.

So I guess I have to start looking for longer flange focal distance for UWA, and forget about the upcoming FE UWA.
Let's see if Zeiss will release ZM Distagon 15mm with adapted mount for FE, so that lens will be farther away from sensor compared to the current FE lenses.

The reflection problem wasnt a big deal actually if its well controlled but the magnitude of it on the a7 steered me away from it to choose the a7r instead.If its obviously visible , its a little hard to take.
This problem has been an ongoing discussion on forums such as dpreview for a while now. The issue has been analyzed by many users and it came down to the a7's sensor design. A7 having more sensor stacks than the a7r. Another group of photographers from hk claims its is actually the thickness of the low pass filter causing internal reflection. Got this thread form hk via dpreview.

http://www.omuser.com/thread-222233-1-6.html

On both dpreview and other user threads such as that from the hk forums, a7r users dont seem to be affected by it or notice it. I myself have not seen any thus far even with light sources such as spotlights pointed straight at my lens. So far so good on the a7r.
Truth be told, internal reflections have been present on the NEX but no one really talked about it cuz it wasnt as visible as that on the a7. I've seen it at least once or twice on the nex6 but brushed it off cuz it was hardly visible or rarely seen in my photos. No problems on the nex 5n/ 7.

 

[pinholecam]

No wonder this doesn't show in my pix I mainly use SLR lenses

Now that you mentioned it, I found it on my NEX-5 too. I found the sensor reflection on 2 sets so far:
[1] Streetlights above Esplanade Bridge
[2] The moon (yeah the moon was very bright that day)
Both using UWA 10-18mm.

So I guess I have to start looking for longer flange focal distance for UWA, and forget about the upcoming FE UWA.
Let's see if Zeiss will release ZM Distagon 15mm with adapted mount for FE, so that lens will be farther away from sensor compared to the current FE lenses.

I don't think SLR/RF lenses play that big a part. (I had initially thought so too )
I've posted samples from 2 slr lens and one RF one, all with this issue.
Of these, 1 is M42 mount with the longest flange distance for SLR systems, 1 is FD mount which is one of the shortest for SLRs and one is M-mount.

Do a search over the internet for more samples with the UWA +A7/r combo that you are thinking of getting. (to 'make sure' )
I've also posted links before that it happens on A7r.

I'd certainly like to see more sample photos taken by other users shot in similar situations with A7r (eg. cityscapes) that would show that its less of a problem.
The light sources have to shine 'at/into' the lens.
If its pointed in another direction, it tends not to happen.

Initially, I also thought that it was the reflection off the sensor back to the lens and then back onto the sensor.
But then, if these appear on the edges of the photo, its unlikely, since the reflection on the sensor would not be able to 'focus' the reflection back to the same area of the lens where the highlight came from.
So more likely, its some sort of internal reflection within the glass stack on the A7/r.



There is no perfect camera.
Better to know its limitations (and workarounds ) than to get caught short when using it for important photo trips.
I'm trying to do all these real life 'stress tests' to know if I can rely on the camera enough or to bring a backup.
I would encourage everyone to do the same.
Certainly by showing off more samples here, we are forming a pool of info showing how good/bad/tolerable the issue is.


Certainly no issue here (ie. so at least I think it won't screw me for Sunrise )

DSC0476620140223ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr


DSC0414620140215ILCE-7-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr
Also not big deal here (so at least I know some blue hr scenes with lights are also ~ok~ )



DSC0474320140223ILCE-7-1-1 by jenkwang, on Flickr
This one had issues, but fixed (so I've learned that most cases, I can fix it)


My few cents

 

[baa tanhaa]

On the la-ea4 its not so much about shutter lag but AF speed when paired with certain lenses...It varies from lens to lens actually. Like on the 85mm f/1.4 zeiss, its literally a tortoise when it comes to auto-focusing. You'll be better off manual focusing with that lens when paired with the la-ea4. AF speed is Useable for kids with the 2470 f/2.8 zeiss lens though , friend uses it for his kid. Truth be told, even on faster cameras , toddlers running around's always a challenge.

You can actually rent the laea4 and some a mount lenses for a weekend and try it for yourself to see if it meets your expectations. They are readily available.

i have the LA-EA4 actually and was testing out first time with the minolta 105mm macro.. AF speed is ok and since i normally use manual focusing with macro photography. I just felt that there is a certain shutter lag on it. not sure if it is the lens or because of the LA-EA4. Will do further testing when my sony G 70-300mm arrives..

 

[m3vapour]

hey bro pinholecam, just one of the few quick snapshots i got from over the weekend that had strong spot lights pointing at my lens.. The place was pretty much dark/dim and on a few occasions spotlights pointing straight at the direction of my lens to light up the exhibits. Photo is straight ooc and untouched.
while this is not a cityscape pict, the strong light source was pointing directly in my direction and i thought the camera handled it pretty well.
Green stuff near the neck of the exhibit is from the Uv filter that im certain =) Straight white lines near the light source were from the support lines for the exhibit.

 

[jennzhen]

Yeah it's not just A7/NEX, other brands/models are affected as well.
Some says it depends on the camera (sensor) and lens combination, so it helps to check-out the sample photos of the camera+lens combination before buying.
Ideally would be good if we can test-drive before buying, e.g. bring flashlight and shoot

I wonder if it helps if they coat the rear lens element too ... or coat the glasses on the sensor ...
My money is on the rear lens element ... anyone want to try DIY lens coating?

Initially, I also thought that it was the reflection off the sensor back to the lens and then back onto the sensor.
But then, if these appear on the edges of the photo, its unlikely, since the reflection on the sensor would not be able to 'focus' the reflection back to the same area of the lens where the highlight came from.
So more likely, its some sort of internal reflection within the glass stack on the A7/r.

 

[m3vapour]

i have the LA-EA4 actually and was testing out first time with the minolta 105mm macro.. AF speed is ok and since i normally use manual focusing with macro photography. I just felt that there is a certain shutter lag on it. not sure if it is the lens or because of the LA-EA4. Will do further testing when my sony G 70-300mm arrives..

hey baa tanhaa just to ask, i remember u used zuiko lenses for your british blue, may i ask what adapter u're using? am interested in trying out some om glass.

 

[jennzhen]

Maybe try the 35mm with smaller aperture, f/11 or so, if you have a chance ... might be more vulnerable at smaller aperture ...

hey bro pinholecam, just one of the few quick snapshots i got from over the weekend that had strong spot lights pointing at my lens.. The place was pretty much dark/dim and on a few occasions spotlights pointing straight at the direction of my lens to light up the exhibits. Photo is straight ooc and untouched.
while this is not a cityscape pict, the strong light source was pointing directly in my direction and i thought the camera handled it pretty well.
Green stuff near the neck of the exhibit is from the Uv filter that im certain =) Straight white lines near the light source were from the support lines for the exhibit.

 

[baa tanhaa]

hey baa tanhaa just to ask, i remember u used zuiko lenses for your british blue, may i ask what adapter u're using? am interested in trying out some om glass.

using a kipon one bought from ebay..so far so good. quite like OM glasses for their contrast and colour.