OFFICIAL: CANON EOS 5D Mark III - User Thread - Part 4
- Thread starter raydio
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raydio
Senior Member
So the latest pricing for the 5D Mk3 is still at $4135 (Oct12 - MS Color $4135 w GST)? No price drop lately?That's a good $300+ price gap between 5D Mk3 and the D800.
Canon has instituted their MAP strategy effective November 1st. Now that the rebates are over, prices will levitate to higher levels all over the world.
Canon MAP Pricing Goes into Full Effect
Canon is shooting themselves in the foot if they let prices rise. As it is, with their current lackluster releases priced higher than the competition, they are already rapidly losing market shares to Nikon. If they let the prices rise further, there will be further shrinkage to their market shares. Wake up and smell reality, Canon!
MAP meand Minimum Advertised Pricing = doesnt mean you have to sell at higher price but means you cant advertise a lower price. Means Rebates are going to be your choice now
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Some of the cameras/lenses that will see changes in their base price (rebates not included):
Canon EOS 5D Mark III - $3,194.00 going to $3,499.00
Canon EOS 5D Mark III and EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS Kit - $3,949.00 going to $4,299.00
From B&H now:
Price:$3,499.00
Instant Savings: -$200.00
You Pay:$3,299.00
There is a couple of reasons being discussed about Canons move to reinforce the MAP, one of them that they try to protect the brick and mortar shops from the price pressure of the internet shops.
So yes this move let to a price increase , but deals are being done everywhere below 3K USD for the body only in US just not advertised anymore. You just go tothe forums for Canon intrest groups and there is always a deal being announce around 2.7K USD.
QUOTE:
Some of the cameras/lenses that will see changes in their base price (rebates not included):
Canon EOS 5D Mark III - $3,194.00 going to $3,499.00
Canon EOS 5D Mark III and EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS Kit - $3,949.00 going to $4,299.00
From B&H now:
Price:$3,499.00
Instant Savings: -$200.00
You Pay:$3,299.00
There is a couple of reasons being discussed about Canons move to reinforce the MAP, one of them that they try to protect the brick and mortar shops from the price pressure of the internet shops.
So yes this move let to a price increase , but deals are being done everywhere below 3K USD for the body only in US just not advertised anymore. You just go tothe forums for Canon intrest groups and there is always a deal being announce around 2.7K USD.
Yes, Canon's imaging section is still profitable. And Canon, as a whole, is making money unlike Sony, Panasonic, Olympus. But from the latest Canon financial report and Nikon financial report, we are seeing a decline in Canon's imaging systems in comparison to Nikon.
For the July to Sep 2012 period, sales of Nikon's interchangeable lens cameras increased by 30% (Jul-Sep 2012 vs Jul-Sep 2011) and their lenses by 28% while Canon bemoaned a decrease in sales (no specific numbers) of their interchangeable lens cameras. Keep in mind the interchangeable lens camera market is nearly stagnant. So, the overall effect is that Nikon's market shares have increased at the expense of Canon.
Also, in the same period and in their respective imaging products division,
Nikon net sales = 190.9 billion yen, operating profit = 22.2 billion yen
Canon net sales = 322 billion yen, operating profit = 52.6 billion yen
For the same quarter in 2011, in the imaging division,
Nikon net sales = 157.4 billion yen, operating profit = 15.6 billion yen
Canon net sales = 347.4 billion yen, operating profit = 75.1 billion yen
So, Nikon net sales in the imaging department for the Jul-Sep 2012 quarter improved by 21% and their operating profit increased by 42% vs the same quarter in 2011.
And Canon net sales in the imaging department reduced by 7.3% and their operating profit reduced by 30%.
Serves Canon right for putting out expensive, underperforming/uncompetitive/handicapped products. Also, it appears their huge investment in professional video gear has just gone down the drain, judging by the specs of Sony's upcoming releases. This will help explain the slight decrease in their net sales but massive cuts in operating profit.
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Errr... everything. Remember imaging sensor is everything... this was what happened many donkey years ago when Canon's 300D and 1Ds sensors performed far better than Nikon's 70D and D1.
Today, we compare the imaging sensors in Canon 650D vs Nikon 3200/5100, Canon 7D vs Nikon D7000.
The Canon 5D3 is priced similarly to the Nikon D800, but look at their sensor performance.
Then, you look at the poorly featured Canon 6D vs the well featured Nikon D600. We do not know about sensor performance yet, but I'm willing to bet it's going to be huge difference again (particularly for low ISO).
Finally, consider the Canon EOS-M vs every mirrorless interchangeable lens camera out there... the AF and lens offerings.... enough said.
Even their top-of-the-line compact cameras (G1X/G15/S110) pale in comparison to the Sony RX100: either too big (G1X) or poor sensor (G15/S110). I'll rather pick up a Panasonic LX7 or Olympus XZ-1/XZ-2 than anything from Canon compact.
See what I mean by lacklustre releases?
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raydio
Senior Member
I agree that things are in Nikon's favour at the moment. But it wasn't too long ago that the roles were reversed. I find it hard to believe that the power structure at Canon will allow this to continue for long. Things will change for the better.
The fact of the matter is that I own quite a bit of Canon glass. Of course I could sell it all and switch to Nikon. Would I be happier?... likely not. If I sold all my Canon equipment over the next year and then Canon improves its sensor technology significantly enough to be king of the hill, what have I accomplished? Do I then sell all my Nikon equipment and make the switch again?
The fact of the matter is that I own quite a bit of Canon glass. Of course I could sell it all and switch to Nikon. Would I be happier?... likely not. If I sold all my Canon equipment over the next year and then Canon improves its sensor technology significantly enough to be king of the hill, what have I accomplished? Do I then sell all my Nikon equipment and make the switch again?
esoeij
Senior Member
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I would say that the results for one quarter (July to September 2012 vs 2011) should be read with a pinch of salt. It could be disproportionately affected by differences in timing of new product launches. For instance, the Nikon D600 was launched and available during July to September 2012 but the Canon 6D is not in-market yet. A full year result will give a better and clearer picture. Second, not every Canon product launched recently was lacklustre (e.g. 5D3 was a hit). Even if Canon has some duds, it's to be expected as I don't think it's realistic for any brand to have every product in its line-up a home-run hit. This is especially true of brands like Canon with a wider range of products.
I must qualify that I use Canon but not because I have any particular allegiance to Canon. It just happened that I started out with it, and we all know how costly and troublesome it can be to switch brands once you build up the lens collection and accessories. But I'm quite satisfied with Canon overall so far, so no compulsion to switch.
I must qualify that I use Canon but not because I have any particular allegiance to Canon. It just happened that I started out with it, and we all know how costly and troublesome it can be to switch brands once you build up the lens collection and accessories. But I'm quite satisfied with Canon overall so far, so no compulsion to switch.
eggie87
Senior Member
Those who are long term users of Canon or Nikon watch this review..u don't have to switch systems.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omTo7UxbJX8
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Me as a faithful canon user for so many years also felt that this time round, Nikon score 1-nil against Canon. The improvement is so little as compare with Nikon. If not of the left focus issue of D800, Nikon will win even bigger margin.
Some more, really sick of canon wide angle lens. Basically there is no match to nikon 14-24. no improvement on the wide angle lens for so many years. Not to offend all the bros and sis here, if I am a new dslr user, I will pick Nikon this time round.
Some more, really sick of canon wide angle lens. Basically there is no match to nikon 14-24. no improvement on the wide angle lens for so many years. Not to offend all the bros and sis here, if I am a new dslr user, I will pick Nikon this time round.
eggie87
Senior Member
To me the only things that it won the mk3 after watching the review is the sharpness at most isos due to the pixel countv while mk3 was smoother in most..even the mk3 focused faster..handled awb better..fps faster while even the d800 had to buffer for such a long after so many shots were taken..
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Mostly true. BUT Canon wide angle lenses are really good now. 17 TSE. 24 TSE. 24 f/1.4L Mk2. 24 f/2.8 IS. 28 f/2.8 IS. 24-70 f/2.8 Mk2. And soon 24-70 f/4 IS. All these lenses have superlative optical performances. We should see something to rival Nikon 14-24 next year... if the rumors are right. On the other hand, the Nikon 10-24 and 24-85 f/3.5-4.5 VR lenses have ugly optical performances.
If I am a newbie looking for interchangeable lens cameras, I will look at micro 4/3rd first. Small, compact, lightweight. Fast AF. High ISO as good as APS-C. What's not to like?
Blur Shadow
Senior Member
I suppose no one can win all the time.
Technology can be a funny thing - it goes through cycles, sometimes evolutionary, sometimes revolutionary. Sometimes, a superior technology can win, sometimes it barely garners any attention. Throw in business strategy, market conditions, consumer sentiment, specific risks inherent to each company and we have ourselves a crazy world out there.
I do not think Canon and Nikon will fold in the near future. Both have solid operations, good support base, enjoy good brand equity and in general well respected and doing decently well. Barring any serious disaster, both should survive.
So now, to focus on technology. Photography is a funny place for technology. We have a hybrid of old and new technology, and technology that is advancing at different pace.
Sensor development is probably one of the faster tracks we have here. Canon seems to be on an evolutionary phase until the Canon 1DX, whereas Nikon, limping from the D1 to the D2xs days, obtained a revolutionary leap in both it's DX and FX sensor. Now with the 24MP DX sensor and 36MP FX sensor, Nikon is viewed as having the lead.
Lenses are tricky. We have some new developments, but it is a mixed of old school mastery and modern design and production. Both camps are fighting hard, but both have obvious gaps that many photographers are critical of.
Then there is the flash system, AF system, metering system, all of which are far from perfection.
The thing is, you win some, you lose some. Can't always win at everything. Gotta give something up folks. May whole, enjoy what you have - it is something that people just a few years ago probably cannot readily enjoy.
Technology can be a funny thing - it goes through cycles, sometimes evolutionary, sometimes revolutionary. Sometimes, a superior technology can win, sometimes it barely garners any attention. Throw in business strategy, market conditions, consumer sentiment, specific risks inherent to each company and we have ourselves a crazy world out there.
I do not think Canon and Nikon will fold in the near future. Both have solid operations, good support base, enjoy good brand equity and in general well respected and doing decently well. Barring any serious disaster, both should survive.
So now, to focus on technology. Photography is a funny place for technology. We have a hybrid of old and new technology, and technology that is advancing at different pace.
Sensor development is probably one of the faster tracks we have here. Canon seems to be on an evolutionary phase until the Canon 1DX, whereas Nikon, limping from the D1 to the D2xs days, obtained a revolutionary leap in both it's DX and FX sensor. Now with the 24MP DX sensor and 36MP FX sensor, Nikon is viewed as having the lead.
Lenses are tricky. We have some new developments, but it is a mixed of old school mastery and modern design and production. Both camps are fighting hard, but both have obvious gaps that many photographers are critical of.
Then there is the flash system, AF system, metering system, all of which are far from perfection.
The thing is, you win some, you lose some. Can't always win at everything. Gotta give something up folks. May whole, enjoy what you have - it is something that people just a few years ago probably cannot readily enjoy.
niccon2
Senior Member
looking at these numbers, canon profit margin is much higher than nikon so more room for price reduction?
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raydio
Senior Member
I couldn't agree more. Well said.
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