Nikon forum so garang

[alantkh]

Type of labor is one of the determinants, I agree, especially for such high tech fabs like wafer fans. But type of labor will change as a country progresses. One will be naive to think that the type of labor available now in china are still the same in the 80s.

As for wafer, TSMC in taiwan is king. But can they do it back in the early 80s? No. Back then "made in taiwan" is considered bad quality. Look at them now. Can china do it back in the early 90s? No. But they are starting to since early 2000s, with the SMIC.

The demographics of a country will change. And with that, the type of labor available will too. Some for the better very quickly, some for the worse, and some stay about the same. China has been moving very fast ahead. The 6 years I spent in china I witness more advancement I saw in the 11 years I lived in the silicon valley.

So in the end, it is really meaningless to correlate country of manufacture to quality. Especially in such a global economy such as the one we have now.

??? no one is labelling China as lousy forever. Nobody cares what china was like in the 80. So what if there was change? YOU AGREED that the country of manufacture does affect the quality of the product but that changes with time. So?? People can still make a conclusion on the quality of the products churned out by nikon Japan plant and nikon China plant at this point in time. Even if it will change in the future does it make our current discussion any less valid?

In fact, that should be a reason for more discussions on the quality of nikon lens from various countries. Consumers need to know the latest information about how good the Thailand or China plant is. (not that I am saying the average lay person here know about the internals of Nikon China plant, but you could be pointed to interesting/useful facts that exist on the web)

PS:
This is not just limited to labour. Things like the type of equipment available at different plants also affects the quality. Example, I assume the Nikon Japan plant has the state of art machines since they manufacture all the high end / demanding lens while the overseas plant has poorer machines will bigger tolerances since they mainly deal with consumer lens.

 

[crystal1993]

because the Mods most probably want us to trash out our differences before stepping in when someone starts flaming. that person isn't here yet. all of us here are still coolheaded :bsmilie:

:bsmilie:!

 

[crystal1993]

And who are you to say that the thread starter did not?

I didn't say he did not. :bsmilie:

 

[rains]

Well you can't stop people from laughing at someone no? What can you do, really? That is how the world is.

Then don't flame others for defending themselves.

And this is the point that I have been making. In other forums (haha ... I know some people are going to ask me to go to 'other forums then'), repliers don't laugh at your lack of knowledge. Why do the peeps here do that and think they have the right to do so? If that's not self-serving ego, I don't know what is.

 

[alantkh]

the mods are not God and they can't oversee everything. but once they deem the comments and topic being "eerily" similar to another previous thread, i'm sure they'll lock it up.

err... I am sure they can see the 1001 "should I upgrade to FF" threads. common, I see two "should I upgrade to FF" threads on the Front Page of nikon forum.

Yes, the mods are not God, but neither are they blind.

The point is that MIC thread is not even a frequent thread by any stretch of imagination. Is TWO threads in 3 months too many?

 

[pinholecam]

This is Singapore, when you post, better make sure you can prove your point with "facts".
Else prepare to get lawyer letter.
Want to make irrelevant comments and stupid questions.
Start your own party.. er.. I mean photo forum... :bsmilie:


lol
I do think both sides have their points.
In some cases, it clearly is better off closed by the mod.
However, "Not happy to answer, don't answer" certainly is not too difficult to practice.
There certainly are some individuals here in CS that like to 'prey' on ppl w/ less knowledge.
(I have bad day in office, I make sure I pass on the bad vibe to you ... attitude.)
It will be harder to form a pool of knowledge in this forum if ppl just rely on outside sources via google

 

[daredevil123]

??? no one is labelling China as lousy forever. Nobody cares what china was like in the 80. So what if there was change? YOU AGREED that the country of manufacture does affect the quality of the product but that changes with time. So?? People can still make a conclusion on the quality of the products churned out by nikon Japan plant and nikon China plant at this point in time. Even if it will change in the future does it make our current discussion any less valid?

In fact, that should be a reason for more discussions on the quality of nikon lens from various countries. Consumers need to know the latest information about how good the Thailand or China plant is. (not that I am saying the average lay person here know about the internals of Nikon China plant, but you could be pointed to interesting/useful facts that exist on the web)

PS:
This is not just limited to labour. Things like the type of equipment available at different plants also affects the quality. Example, I assume the Nikon Japan plant has the state of art machines since they manufacture all the high end / demanding lens while the overseas plant has poorer machines will bigger tolerances since they mainly deal with consumer lens.

In terms of labor available China has been progressing for many years at an amazing pace. They have that pool of labor available for many years now. Maybe not in the 80s, but certainly capable in more modern times. Type of equipment? goodness, what kind of secret equipment do they need to manufacture lenses, that they cannot ship or build in another plant. They they can build a state-of-the-art wafer fab in Shanghai back in 2004, what makes you think they can't have machines used for manufacture lenses? especially the company that set up the factory is the same Nikon corp?

The world is changing my friend. It would good if you can step out the door and see what it is like outside.

 

[alantkh]

In terms of labor available China has been progressing for many years at an amazing pace. They have that pool of labor available for many years now. Maybe not in the 80s, but certainly capable in more modern times. Type of equipment? goodness, what kind of secret equipment do they need to manufacture lenses, that they cannot ship or build in another plant. They they can build a state-of-the-art wafer fab in Shanghai back in 2004, what makes you think they can't have machines used for manufacture lenses? especially the company that set up the factory is the same Nikon corp?

The world is changing my friend. It would good if you can step out the door and see what it is like outside.

???? seriously you should read my post before replying.

PS: there is nothing secret about machines. Other than they are probably bloody expensive. No company can afford the latest equipment for all their plants. Period. Are you sure you are working in the high tech manufacturing industry??

 

[kkgoxplore]

I had my share of being blasted when I first came onboard - not the Nikon forum just to set the record right. I think we can all exercise a little courtesy when dealing with newbies onboard and in my case I was not a newbie to photography then but a newbie to UW photography. We can politely point and suggest to the TS to check out historical thread or google for the answer and there is no need to use harsh words.

 

[zhaowei]

Well, I got blasted by a CS member when I first came onboard and posted a newbie question. Since then I've more or less given up on getting any useful advice here. It's better to just learn on your own, from review sites or from people you know.

Even a thread like this can sidetrack to a debate about manufacturing. Seriously?

But I try to help other newbies occasionally. Not all "senior members" are always helpful.

It seems the threads that are the most popular here are the ones like "Dxxxx users come in" anyway.

 

[QQQQQzxc]

ALL I WANT TO KNOW IS THAT ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE CAMERA OR ME ?

IN THE END , GETTING NO HELP FROM YOU GUYS LIKE EXAMPLE KEI , CRYSTAL1993 , DAREDEVIL . I FIGURED OUT HOW TO USE -.-

ITS MY FIRST DAY THAT I BROUGHT THE CAMERA & THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE I USED NIKON DSLR . NATURALLY WILL HAVE ABIT OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IT . USER GUIDE IN JAPANESE HOW YOU WANT ME READ? TRANSLATE WORDS BY WORD? OR LOOKING AT PICTURE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY TRYING TO SAY ?

I FOUND OUT THAT THE PROBLEM LINES IN ME & MY CAMERA SETTING -.-

INSTEAD OF TELLING ME GIVING SUGGESTION , YOU GUYS ASK ME SELL DSLR ? YOU STUPID IS IT ? YOU TELL ME IF YOU BUY DSLR FIRST DAY , NEXT DAY SELL ? NO LINK TO THE THREAD I STARTED -.- ASK ME USE PNS ? HOW BOUT NOW I TELL YOU

KEI CRYSTAL DAREDEVIL & ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT BASH : KNOWLEDGE ALOT ? PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER ? COME ON ... YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO INSULT ME . WHY NOT YOU SELL YOUR DSLR AS I CAN SEE YOUR IMAGES ARE AWFUL . JUST STOP USING DSLR & GIVE IT TO PEOPLE THAT NEED IT MORE . I RECOMMEND YOUR USE PNS OR DONT USE CAMERA AT ALL .

HOW YOU FEEL ? PUT YOURSELF IN MY SHOES & THINK ...

IMAGINE YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO FUNCTION THIS DSLR , YOU ASK FOR HELP , IN THE END YOU GET NOTHING & BUTCH OF CRAP JOKES. HOW YOU FEEL ? BLOODY HELL .

you trying to act smart & talk about tones ? you can imagine my tone ? well your imagination sucks .
say i refuse to learn ? use your brain & think . if i refuse to learn , i won't even bother to ask .
i got no rights to say nikon leave bad impression ? your care for what ? can't i voice out my feeling ?
did i insisted that its the gear problem ? when i read page 1 a few try to help & i immediate setup everything & try it out .

did i even type "CONFIRM IS MY CAMERA PROBLEM 100% CONFIRM " ? The answer is NO . So stop assuming things that i insisted it .

 

[QQQQQzxc]

Your want help , help with patience . IF NOT DONT HELP AT ALL . simple .
Other forum are patient & also talking about the main point & not from d700 to point & shoot. Even the moderator catchlight is insulting me . what kind of moderator is this ?


PS . Kei , your dp is AWFUL ! Eye sore .

 

[allenleonhart]

ALL I WANT TO KNOW IS THAT ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE CAMERA OR ME ?

IN THE END , GETTING NO HELP FROM YOU GUYS LIKE EXAMPLE KEI , CRYSTAL1993 , DAREDEVIL . I FIGURED OUT HOW TO USE -.-

ITS MY FIRST DAY THAT I BROUGHT THE CAMERA & THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE I USED NIKON DSLR . NATURALLY WILL HAVE ABIT OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IT . USER GUIDE IN JAPANESE HOW YOU WANT ME READ? TRANSLATE WORDS BY WORD? OR LOOKING AT PICTURE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY TRYING TO SAY ?

I FOUND OUT THAT THE PROBLEM LINES IN ME & MY CAMERA SETTING -.-

INSTEAD OF TELLING ME GIVING SUGGESTION , YOU GUYS ASK ME SELL DSLR ? YOU STUPID IS IT ? YOU TELL ME IF YOU BUY DSLR FIRST DAY , NEXT DAY SELL ? NO LINK TO THE THREAD I STARTED -.- ASK ME USE PNS ? HOW BOUT NOW I TELL YOU

KEI CRYSTAL DAREDEVIL & ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT BASH : KNOWLEDGE ALOT ? PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER ? COME ON ... YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO INSULT ME . WHY NOT YOU SELL YOUR DSLR AS I CAN SEE YOUR IMAGES ARE AWFUL . JUST STOP USING DSLR & GIVE IT TO PEOPLE THAT NEED IT MORE . I RECOMMEND YOUR USE PNS OR DONT USE CAMERA AT ALL .

HOW YOU FEEL ? PUT YOURSELF IN MY SHOES & THINK ...

IMAGINE YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO FUNCTION THIS DSLR , YOU ASK FOR HELP , IN THE END YOU GET NOTHING & BUTCH OF CRAP JOKES. HOW YOU FEEL ? BLOODY HELL .

you trying to act smart & talk about tones ? you can imagine my tone ? well your imagination sucks .
say i refuse to learn ? use your brain & think . if i refuse to learn , i won't even bother to ask .
i got no rights to say nikon leave bad impression ? your care for what ? can't i voice out my feeling ?
did i insisted that its the gear problem ? when i read page 1 a few try to help & i immediate setup everything & try it out .

did i even type "CONFIRM IS MY CAMERA PROBLEM 100% CONFIRM " ? The answer is NO . So stop assuming things that i insisted it .

now there's ur problem. reminds me of this...

http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/allcaps.htm

 

[zhaowei]

Your want help , help with patience . IF NOT DONT HELP AT ALL . simple .
Other forum are patient & also talking about the main point & not from d700 to point & shoot. Even the moderator catchlight is insulting me . what kind of moderator is this ?


PS . Kei , your dp is AWFUL ! Eye sore .

Take it easy bro. I've just read through the thread. Those who replied and suggested you switch to PNS were quite rude, and I'd say it's not uncommon here.

But I would suggest you not use CAPS in your own replies. Doesn't reflect well on you either. Just delete (or change to small caps), shut off your computer and go and shoot something with your cam.

 

[allenleonhart]

Your want help , help with patience . IF NOT DONT HELP AT ALL . simple .
Other forum are patient & also talking about the main point & not from d700 to point & shoot. Even the moderator catchlight is insulting me . what kind of moderator is this ?


PS . Kei , your dp is AWFUL ! Eye sore .

personal insults? WOW

 

[QQQQQzxc]

im just freaking pissed of that they still continue to assume that i refuse to learn , assume that i blame my equipment .

 

[QQQQQzxc]

personal insults? WOW

Voicing out opinion . Just like how he did to me.

 

[QQQQQzxc]

Take it easy bro. I've just read through the thread. Those who replied and suggested you switch to PNS were quite rude, and I'd say it's not uncommon here.

But I would suggest you not use CAPS in your own replies. Doesn't reflect well on you either. Just delete (or change to small caps), shut off your computer and go and shoot something with your cam.

I have to say forum should be a community with polite , helpful , patient people .
Rather than having people bashing on other member just because they have been on this forum for a long time .

My point is i dont mind getting bash & being insult with hurtful words . At the end of the day , I got no help from neither of them . Thats the point . Wasting my time to check out forum to see if any help is available.

 

[allenleonhart]

Voicing out opinion . Just like how he did to me.

I SEE!:bsmilie:

 

[catchlights]

just back from an assignment, will closely watch over this thread.

now this thread spit into three topics, Ok, whatever it is, this thread will remind open as long the discussions are in civilize manner. if anyone don't know where is the boundary, please read the Terms of Use of this forum.