Nikon forum so garang
- Thread starter bornwild4
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Seriously your close my d700 thread , i think is very rude .
I ask for help in this forum because im new to nikon , my user guide is in japanesse , internet user guide is a pain in the ass as i have to scroll here & there . that why i ask for help here . Do you think user guide tell you how come your LCD picture look overexposed ?
Ask for help here = no information , just a bunch of jokers joking around -.- Sweet spot means lens sweet spot . Need me teach you ? its mean which aperture of that lens give sharpness better than other aperture . Look at those people ? talking about rubbing battery?
I believe your are not kids lah . seriously . Think it meaningless thread ? don't even bother to reply it then . waste my time waiting for a strong structure of answers or advice .
In the end , i have to figure out myself for hours .
not paiseh ? first time use nikon & not familiar as 5d mark ii , ask me sell my camera & go for PnS ? You not happy , you come . i dont care if you ban or what .
Your ownself think , if you new to nikon , you ask for help , ended up getting negative stuff , how you feel ?
I ask for help in this forum because im new to nikon , my user guide is in japanesse , internet user guide is a pain in the ass as i have to scroll here & there . that why i ask for help here . Do you think user guide tell you how come your LCD picture look overexposed ?
Ask for help here = no information , just a bunch of jokers joking around -.- Sweet spot means lens sweet spot . Need me teach you ? its mean which aperture of that lens give sharpness better than other aperture . Look at those people ? talking about rubbing battery?
I believe your are not kids lah . seriously . Think it meaningless thread ? don't even bother to reply it then . waste my time waiting for a strong structure of answers or advice .
In the end , i have to figure out myself for hours .
not paiseh ? first time use nikon & not familiar as 5d mark ii , ask me sell my camera & go for PnS ? You not happy , you come . i dont care if you ban or what .
Your ownself think , if you new to nikon , you ask for help , ended up getting negative stuff , how you feel ?
kei1309
Senior Member
i'm a Sony Alpha user. but i've used Nikon and Canon gear from time to time. but the difference is, i know my foundations. i can pick up my buddy's Nikon or Canon and (not talking about menu interface etc) am able to use the features as they are made for (Metering, Focusing etc..)
what you displayed wasn't lack of knowledge of the gear, but rather a lack of the fundamentals of exposure/focusing/etc. i'm sorry that the others were harsh on you, but didn't you find out the answer in the end?
what you displayed wasn't lack of knowledge of the gear, but rather a lack of the fundamentals of exposure/focusing/etc. i'm sorry that the others were harsh on you, but didn't you find out the answer in the end?
kei1309
Senior Member
firstly, your tone is very demanding and prideful.
secondly, no matter how the others explained to you, you always insisted it's a gear issue, not a user issue. (i.e. refusal to learn)
once everyone gets tired of helping, yet facing prideful remarks... they turn to sarcasm and start poking fun.
what uncle catchlights did was to prevent you from getting more hurtful remarks. are you not thankful at all?
secondly, no matter how the others explained to you, you always insisted it's a gear issue, not a user issue. (i.e. refusal to learn)
once everyone gets tired of helping, yet facing prideful remarks... they turn to sarcasm and start poking fun.
what uncle catchlights did was to prevent you from getting more hurtful remarks. are you not thankful at all?
qq, just take a step back and relax. diff ppl have diff tolerance for being offended, say if someone feels that same statement does not offend himself he will naturally use it on others and thinking that it will not offend others. At the end of the day, this is a forum. If everyone wants to do what they wanna do, its fine, by that same token just ignore what u want to ignore thats all.
If we all get offended by forums, where ppl sit behind the safety of their screen and flame others, then we are being unwise here. Understand that forums make ppl more gutsy than in real life. I bet many computer heros are not as upfront in real life. So just chill, dun even need to bother abt anything.
Imagine u setup a thread and expect ppl to give you the answers, by the same token they expect you to do your homework before asking. Lidat will never end one. What ever useful info u can get from it, take it, whatever not useful just throw.
If we all get offended by forums, where ppl sit behind the safety of their screen and flame others, then we are being unwise here. Understand that forums make ppl more gutsy than in real life. I bet many computer heros are not as upfront in real life. So just chill, dun even need to bother abt anything.
Imagine u setup a thread and expect ppl to give you the answers, by the same token they expect you to do your homework before asking. Lidat will never end one. What ever useful info u can get from it, take it, whatever not useful just throw.
spree86
Senior Member
To QQ, I hope that you realise that your queries were answered nicely at the beginning of the thread. Despite the explanations, you insisted that it's a gear problem. That's when all the not so nice comments started. Like what Kei said, it's due to your refusal to learn and prideful stance that earned you all the negative answers.
crystal1993
New Member
To QQ,
You claim we are rude but have you seen the mirror? You asked in a demanding tone as though we owe you a living. And when we answered that it could be you having set the settings wrong you insist that it's the equipment not the user. So what for we have to help you since we tried and got negative replies from you?
You claim we are rude but have you seen the mirror? You asked in a demanding tone as though we owe you a living. And when we answered that it could be you having set the settings wrong you insist that it's the equipment not the user. So what for we have to help you since we tried and got negative replies from you?
allenleonhart
Senior Member
sorry i'm still figuring out how to turn on my camera. apparently rubbing the sweet spot doesnt turn them on. T_T
maybe u are right! But why is everyone sayng the same thing!
maybe everyone is wrong:dunno:
maybe we shld start with the attitude first, dun u think?
then again, i might have to google how to turn on a dslr
maybe u are right! But why is everyone sayng the same thing!
maybe everyone is wrong:dunno:
maybe we shld start with the attitude first, dun u think?
then again, i might have to google how to turn on a dslr
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allenleonhart
Senior Member
and to TS himself...
well... most of the time CS members are a friendly bunch. i mean, i approach quite a number with regards to critique on my photos, for competitions, for concepts i need to understand. more often than not, they will take time to guide and to teach... i mean, i got 3 long paragraphs (or more) from a certain goat on a GP homework that i couldnt understand it, something abt the right to offend. ppl do take time to help, provided effort has been shown
more often than not, the ppl who posted are having attitude problems... tats what makes the other ppl explode one... at least have a learning and humble attitude, and u wont get shot, and u will get a lot of help offered
well... most of the time CS members are a friendly bunch. i mean, i approach quite a number with regards to critique on my photos, for competitions, for concepts i need to understand. more often than not, they will take time to guide and to teach... i mean, i got 3 long paragraphs (or more) from a certain goat on a GP homework that i couldnt understand it, something abt the right to offend. ppl do take time to help, provided effort has been shown
more often than not, the ppl who posted are having attitude problems... tats what makes the other ppl explode one... at least have a learning and humble attitude, and u wont get shot, and u will get a lot of help offered
If the reason for closing the thread is that it has been brought up countless time, there are 1001 other threads which are more eligible for closing.
The other arguement for closing the thread is that the thread is useless and there is no difference in MIC and MIJ lens. It is just an "old wives tales".
But that is what the mod THINKS. Must the mod shove that stand down everyone's throat? Must a mod term other people's view as "old wives tales" without any justification whatsoever.
I design ICs as a living and I know how difficult it is to move a precision manufacturing site (wafer fab) from one country to another. The yield/quality is NEVER the same. Thus I am so surprised why people so readily assume that there is no difference in MIC and MIJ.
I do agree that if people are rude or just attacking each other in a thread, we should shut it down. But if people are discussing something which they feel is of value to them, the mods are welcome to join in the discussion to present their views. But why ask everyone to shut up?
PS: I know the thread does not help in improving photography skills but seriously most of the threads in equipment forums does not really help either. Reliability/quality of the lens is of some importance to photographers.
In that particular thread, the main question was why the over exposure. And more than one of the responses already answered that the problem lies in the metering mode. So the thread has already achieved it purpose early on.
TS just continued to bash the equipment, and the brand, and do it in that brand's sub forum. So he should not be surprised at the mob like reaction he got. You reap what you sow.
I did manufacturing control for a living. I have seen new wafer lines in 3rd world countries producing yields higher than older production lines in 1st world countries. I have seen harddrive substrates getting better yields in Malaysia than in USA. I have seen Hyundai cars made better in Beijing than in Korea. I have seen Toyota camrys made better in Ontario than in Japan. I have seen Chevolet cars made better in China than USA. Yes the yield and quality is never the same. It may even exceed the original line.
Something to think about.
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err... We are discussing a different thread.... notice the thread below, the TS was polite, EVERYBODY was POLITE except the MOD.
But then you will agree with me that shift of production to a different site is important to consumers like us, especially if the shift is recently done and they have not iron out the kinks, etc. Some consumers may want to buy a specific lens made from a production line that is running for sometime already. You should also know that when you shift production to a new site, the yield/quality for an initial period is ALMOST always lower than the old site.
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I just want to say I agree wholeheartedly with the thread-starter.
In other forums, I just type what I want to say and not be worried about being mistaken for this and that, but in this forum, I think hard about whether I should say anything, and type it out if I feel I really want to, then I read what I type, and worry that I might antagonise people I don't know because I have no idea which word would offend them and be pointed at the nose for using the 'wrong tone', 'proud tone', 'not being humble' etc.
I agree with the thread starter that in most other forums, we tackle the issues and questions, not the thread starter. I feel that (I use 'I feel that' to tell you loudly that it's purely my opinion - see how I worry? But even for this, I reckon someone would feel unhappy about it also) in this forum, readers like to take words or sentence out of context, or pick up a tone and start bashing the thread starter. It honestly gives me the feeling that the users here are generally more nicky picky or pettier than users of other forums. (For saying this, I might have some people telling me to hit the road and don't come to this forum ever again).
In other forums, the moderators don't lock the threads or interfere unless it gets really bad ie. abusive. But the moderators of this forum can just jump into any thread tell people off. I personally feel that it creates a threatening atmosphere of needing to say things that are right.
Like the thread starter, I also thought that a forum is for asking questions, even if it's a stupid question. How else do people learn?
But I find myself learning more on my own, and taking a long route to, just because this forum is not for asking stupid questions. I don't have any other friends who likes photography so I have only myself and this forum to fall back on, but given that this forum is not so friendly, I have to depend on myself to find things out the tedious way, and the learning is slow. I thought it a shame that having a forum is not that helpful after all. I've stumbled upon photography forums of other countries and surprisingly, the users tackle the issues and questions like a real forum should.
I was an avid user of singaporebrides, singaporemotherhood, idobaby and kiasuparent forums.
Do you think the question 'Which bridal boutique/breastpump/childcare centre/confinement lady/tuition centre is good?' does not come up a thousand times within a month? But not one user would say "This question has been asked a thousand times already. Please go and search for the thread using this link". Not one.
But I see such lines in this forum many many times a month. It discourages newbies from asking questions and according to our education system, this is a very old-school culture.
Many times also, the repliers will demand humility from the thread starters. I find it hilarious because humility is not something that can be demanded. It is won. Firstly, if the thread starter is not humbled by his lack of knowledge, he wouldn't be asking in the first place. Then you might say it's his tone. But who can really control the tone that the readers perceive in a few lines? I may be typing down my thoughts in a questioning manner but to someone who want to perceive it otherwise, he will think I am being arrogant and not teachable. I would be humbled by someone who's more knowledgeable but shows alot of humility in his reply in fact.
I know that my reply will potentially antagonise many, but since someone is garang enough to start this thread, I decided that I should at least show some form of support by speaking up as well.
Wow, I didn't expect my reply to be so long. I guess it's been bottled up for too long.
In other forums, I just type what I want to say and not be worried about being mistaken for this and that, but in this forum, I think hard about whether I should say anything, and type it out if I feel I really want to, then I read what I type, and worry that I might antagonise people I don't know because I have no idea which word would offend them and be pointed at the nose for using the 'wrong tone', 'proud tone', 'not being humble' etc.
I agree with the thread starter that in most other forums, we tackle the issues and questions, not the thread starter. I feel that (I use 'I feel that' to tell you loudly that it's purely my opinion - see how I worry? But even for this, I reckon someone would feel unhappy about it also) in this forum, readers like to take words or sentence out of context, or pick up a tone and start bashing the thread starter. It honestly gives me the feeling that the users here are generally more nicky picky or pettier than users of other forums. (For saying this, I might have some people telling me to hit the road and don't come to this forum ever again).
In other forums, the moderators don't lock the threads or interfere unless it gets really bad ie. abusive. But the moderators of this forum can just jump into any thread tell people off. I personally feel that it creates a threatening atmosphere of needing to say things that are right.
Like the thread starter, I also thought that a forum is for asking questions, even if it's a stupid question. How else do people learn?
But I find myself learning more on my own, and taking a long route to, just because this forum is not for asking stupid questions. I don't have any other friends who likes photography so I have only myself and this forum to fall back on, but given that this forum is not so friendly, I have to depend on myself to find things out the tedious way, and the learning is slow. I thought it a shame that having a forum is not that helpful after all. I've stumbled upon photography forums of other countries and surprisingly, the users tackle the issues and questions like a real forum should.
I was an avid user of singaporebrides, singaporemotherhood, idobaby and kiasuparent forums.
Do you think the question 'Which bridal boutique/breastpump/childcare centre/confinement lady/tuition centre is good?' does not come up a thousand times within a month? But not one user would say "This question has been asked a thousand times already. Please go and search for the thread using this link". Not one.
But I see such lines in this forum many many times a month. It discourages newbies from asking questions and according to our education system, this is a very old-school culture.
Many times also, the repliers will demand humility from the thread starters. I find it hilarious because humility is not something that can be demanded. It is won. Firstly, if the thread starter is not humbled by his lack of knowledge, he wouldn't be asking in the first place. Then you might say it's his tone. But who can really control the tone that the readers perceive in a few lines? I may be typing down my thoughts in a questioning manner but to someone who want to perceive it otherwise, he will think I am being arrogant and not teachable. I would be humbled by someone who's more knowledgeable but shows alot of humility in his reply in fact.
I know that my reply will potentially antagonise many, but since someone is garang enough to start this thread, I decided that I should at least show some form of support by speaking up as well.
Wow, I didn't expect my reply to be so long. I guess it's been bottled up for too long.
allenleonhart
Senior Member
well. to keep it simple...
what u wont say in real life, ur words and ur tones, u shldnt use it here also.
in RL, if u keep asking ur colleagues/ur boss abt how to get stuff done, and u still keep repeating the same mistakes/dun learn how to be self reliant first, ask only if u really hit a brick wall, i think ur gonna get sacked also.
why shld the online world differ from reallife in terms of civility? i think there shld be no difference.
allenleonhart
Senior Member
well...
if u read the d700 thread, let me hear what ur thoughts are abt it. was it really the members being irritating? or was it because somebody was beign stubborn and acting pro?
raise me an example where we became not very civil, before we even give proper good sound advice first, and the mod didnt shut the thread and give that loudmouth an infraction. i think there are very little, almost none.
if u read the d700 thread, let me hear what ur thoughts are abt it. was it really the members being irritating? or was it because somebody was beign stubborn and acting pro?
raise me an example where we became not very civil, before we even give proper good sound advice first, and the mod didnt shut the thread and give that loudmouth an infraction. i think there are very little, almost none.
I am not sure if most people are like me, but I do assume a different persona when I am in the virtual world. I do use tones and words that I don't in real life. And the forum is free right? If I know I will get sacked, I won't ask a single question at all. I am supposed to be a know-all in real life, because I won't get to keep my rice bowl if I am not. But in virtual world and in subject areas that I am ignorant of, why do I pretend to know all? And it's precisely I don't pretend that I show this forum what I don't know. But instead of helping, I get bashed for asking stupid questions. Basically, your real life and virtual world's argument does not stand because in real life, I use my expertise to earn money, but in virtual world, this is a forum to help me to learn. Different things altogether.
alantkh said:
Look at the several posts above yours. And you will know which post we are talking about.
About the thread you are talking about, the argument is about quality of products made in different countries. I agree that new production lines will suffer from some kinks in the initial stage. But that is the same for a new line in the same country in the same site. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the country or site where the new line is being set up. I have shown you real examples of new lines exceeding in quality of old lines in my previous post. Every new line needs to be fine tuned and ramped up. But new lines have the advantage of lessons learnt and best practices and these new lines can be designed to be more efficient from scratch. New lines are almost ALWAYS faster to reach the target yield levels compared to the original time the old lines first took.
In the end how a line performs are dependent on the processes, the production teams and how the line is designed. Nothing to do with where it is. A new line when up to speed can exceed the old line. Any existing lines can also fail in quality if the teams in place screw it up.
And drawing back to your point on camera equipment. Are those plants in china new in the first place? No they are not. They have been around for many years. The nikon plant in Wuxi Jiangsu has been around for a while now. And I am sure they are already hitting target yields and quality matrices. And the lines in there are optimized in their control structures and efficiencies.
I have personally seen wafer lines in Silicon valley screwing up and and wafer lines in Asia kicking butt. So is it still a matter of which country produces better products?
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