Nikon D800 arrival


sprewell said:
Why the Nikon D800 is not a medium format competitor
Click to expand...

Format speaking, it is not a medium format for sure.

However, what Nikon have done is to push up the quality, the ergonomics and pushed down the PRICE SHARPLY.
This is a complete package that will drive a lot of current D MF to EOL for sure.

Hasselblad is charging exuberant price for a crappy back LCD. No ergonomic design for where the controls are placed..
Their image quality/ resolution allows them to continue to be arrogant since the past.
I don't believe in high price = good image.

As a Mamiya AFD owner (had phased one back for a while), I would anytime use the new Nikon than the Mamiya.

I expect many MF gear to become obsolete very soon.
If they are still in business, will be forced to upgrade their existing offers and down push their price.

It is good news for any Photographer. :cool:
 

Tachyon said:
Is D800E a MF competitor?

Well, for those who already own a P45+ and above, no. I do not expect these users to dump their P45+ in exchange for a D800E......
Click to expand...

If I am doing jobs again, I want to minimize my cost of equipment and simplify plus cost cut my process flow.
I would sell the P45+ immediately to recover my cost, and move the D800 to simplify my process.

I already know some pros in KL planning this now.
Also, they can reduce the employees doing the image processing, which is also a major cost.
 

For those using FF camera, it is time for upgrade. For those using canon FF system. Why not try a change of system. :) Think those ages old 5D classic can all going into CS B&S liao before price drop due to those new system release. :)
 

wootsk said:
For those using FF camera, it is time for upgrade. For those using canon FF system. Why not try a change of system. :) Think those ages old 5D classic can all going into CS B&S liao before price drop due to those new system release. :)
Click to expand...

u changing from canon to nikon? i think for those nikon ppl who wants a FF, this is the only choice, unless they wanna pay for D4.. all those complaints abt whether the nikkors lenses can optimise the sensor is secondary.. bcos if u wan a new nikon FF at lower price, u have only one choice...
 

sfoto100 said:
Wonder if The 12 stop DR is due to large sensor? guess not right? Else larger format means more dr...

Not sure if he is right abt 12 stops dr, it is really alot .. I thought sensor dr has not reach the dr offered by bw negative?
Click to expand...

Betterlight scanning backs for LF. It also explains DR, though not in a simplified manner (not for me at least).Scanning Backs...Why They are Better


Further explanations below

What is DR
Understanding Dynamic Range in Digital Photography

Signal to noise ratio
Digital Camera Image Noise: Concept and Types


Not much difference in DR for MF to LF. around 11-12 stops.
Betterlight vs Canon 5D, an informal comparison - The GetDPI Photography Forums


Digital backs aren't really for the average consumer, though that's changing. For smaller formats DR is still limited.
 

I enjoy reading this topic. The discussions are focused on the technical part and not on the specs part. And a lot more friendlier. haha!
 

sfoto100 said:
Wonder if The 12 stop DR is due to large sensor? guess not right? Else larger format means more dr...

Not sure if he is right abt 12 stops dr, it is really alot .. I thought sensor dr has not reach the dr offered by bw negative?
Click to expand...

I thought its already 14.1 stops as of today on a K5?
DxOMark - Pentax K-5
 

hi foxtwo

good articles..

i read the 1st one. some interesting info:

start quote

Can digital image files actually record the full dynamic range of high-end devices? There seems to be much confusion on the internet about the relevance of image bit depth on recordable dynamic range.

We first need to distinguish between whether we are speaking of recordable dynamic range, or displayable dynamic range. Even an ordinary 8-bit JPEG image file can conceivably record an infinite dynamic range — assuming that the right tonal curve is applied during RAW conversion (see tutorial on curves, under motivation: dynamic range), and that the A/D converter has the required bit precision. The problem lies in the usability of this dynamic range; if too few bits are spread over too great of a tonal range, then this can lead to image posterization.

On the other hand, displayable dynamic range depends on the gamma correction or tonal curve implied by the image file, or used by the video card and display device. Using a gamma of 2.2 (standard for PC's), it would be theoretically possible to encode a dynamic range of nearly 18 f-stops (see tutorial on gamma correction, to be added). Again though, this would suffer from severe posterization. The only current standard solution for encoding a nearly infinite dynamic range (with no visible posterization) is to use high dynamic range (HDR) image files in Photoshop (or other supporting program).

end quote

too bad the max DR range for both recordable and displayable that is useful (w/o image posterization) is not mentioned.. guess it is not easy to conclude either...
 

pinholecam said:
I thought its already 14.1 stops as of today on a K5?
DxOMark - Pentax K-5
Click to expand...

guess that will be recordable DR for K5. i believe to get a high displayable DR , raw file must be used and layer blending need to be employed (i.e. to merge diff exposure layers generated in Adobe Photoshop Raw)...

edit: the same will applies to all other dslr.. not just k5
 

Last edited:
sfoto100 said:
guess that will be recordable DR for K5. i believe to get a high displayable DR , raw file must be used and layer blending need to be employed (i.e. to merge diff exposure layers generated in Adobe Photoshop Raw)...
Click to expand...

Don't really need to.
Shadow recovery during RAW conversion can do this.

Of course it also makes it easier to get different exposure versions out of 1 image for blending purposes.

Flickr example of what is recoverable, compared to a 5DII
Pentax K5 vs Canon 5D II - Collage 01 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Pentax K5 vs Canon 5D II - Collage 03 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


BTW, D800 supposed to be FF version of same Sony sensor. So it will be interesting to see what it is capable of.
 

Last edited:
foxtwo said:
well DP says K5 DR is 8.5, but dx0mark rates it as 14.1?

Am trying to understand the DR chart in dx0mark.

nvm, not important. hahaha
Click to expand...

I think the reason is that DPR reviews it up to the viewable shadow area and stops there for JPEG.
ie. Whatever the camera gives as a JPEG and it ignores whatever is actually recoverable from RAW.
So their test for DR is very JPEG engine dependent. (and in their case K5 shadow correct was 'off' (mentioned at the bottom of their page).



From the DR result page :

"To most people highlight range is the first thing they think about when talking about dynamic range, that is the amount of highlight detail above middle gray the camera can capture before it clips to white. Shadow range is more complicated; in our test the line on the graph stops as soon as the luminance value drops below our defined 'black point' (about 2% luminance) or the signal-to-noise ratio drops below a predefined value (where shadow detail would be swamped by noise), whichever comes first. "


"The K-5 features a highlight expansion function which applies to both JPEG and RAW; shadow expansion can also be applied to the camera's JPEG output. With Highlight correction activated ISO 160 becomes the minimum sensitivity setting, and the tone curve is flatter in the highlights giving an extra stop or so of highlight range. If you compare the K-5's dynamic range curve with hghlight correction turned on against the Nikon D7000's default output, you can see that they match almost exactly. Since the two cameras share closely-related sensors, this strongly suggests that the Nikon is essentially performing an equivalent to highlight correction by default. The noise floor of both cameras is low enough to do so without any serious penalty in noise levels, and for this reason we'd recommending keeping highlight protection activated on the K-5."
 

I can't wait to mount a D800 on my LF frame to shoot macro and everything else that needs really fine refinements that only a LF frame can do.
 

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