[ News ] High end Panasonic m43 GFX1 rumour

[JW73]

Will this one make me go back to m4/3...hope it will look like L1 in smaller form..

 

[cannedpineapples]

Panny has proven to us it is capable of cannibalizing it's own line with higher priced lens, so another higher priced 45mm with macro isn't impossible.
If you want me to prove, I will ask you to guess.
Hint: 14-42.

It's not quite the same cannibalising a kit lens vs a premium leica-branded lens. And btw, the leica is already not cheap. Add on small size plus faster speed and you're probably looking at like double the price.

In the mean time I'll choose the 45/1.8 for a very much more reasonable price, thank you very much

 

[NazgulKing]

It's not quite the same cannibalising a kit lens vs a premium leica-branded lens. And btw, the leica is already not cheap. Add on small size plus faster speed and you're probably looking at like double the price.

In the mean time I'll choose the 45/1.8 for a very much more reasonable price, thank you very much

Comparing lenses that way is meaningless. It is much harder to design a shorter focal length, never mind the larger aperture which implies greater cost. Never mind that the working distance of the 45 is longer than the 25 with the crop factor of 2x.

 

[cannedpineapples]

Comparing lenses that way is meaningless. It is much harder to design a shorter focal length, never mind the larger aperture which implies greater cost. Never mind that the working distance of the 45 is longer than the 25 with the crop factor of 2x.

I'm comparing the PL45 macro vs the rumoured new Panasonic 45 pancake with macro vs the Oly 45/1.8. The rationale being they're all 45mm lenses.

Not PL25 vs Oly45/1.8.

 

[loneWolff]

I'm comparing the PL45 macro vs the rumoured new Panasonic 45 pancake with macro vs the Oly 45/1.8. The rationale being they're all 45mm lenses.

Not PL25 vs Oly45/1.8.

I think what he meant is pancakes are harder to design than to eat.
Keeping to Leica standard probably means something inside the pancake is not edible to the people in the red dot.
Oly 45 is not a macro lens, so it won't have the sharp everything nature of a macro (Doesn't mean I won't get one)

 

[cannedpineapples]

I think what he meant is pancakes are harder to design than to eat.
Keeping to Leica standard probably means something inside the pancake is not edible to the people in the red dot.
Oly 45 is not a macro lens, so it won't have the sharp everything nature of a macro (Doesn't mean I won't get one)

That's my point too actually. The PL 45 macro is what, $1000 new? Now make it smaller and faster. Retain the macro. What price are you looking at, $2000?

So shoppers can choose- slow 45mm macro, $1000. fast (and smaller) 45mm macro, $2000. This makes very little business sense. Two with the same length might work if one is very cheap and the other is not, and you give up things like speed or size to get the cheaper one.

In this case, the 'cheaper' one is slow and non-pancake, but it's not cheap. Not at all. It makes sense for Panasonic to create a $2000 lens and a $500 lens, but not $2000 and $1000.

And btw, that $500 lens? It's already been made- Oly 45mm/ 1.8. In short, this rumour is saying that after the market has been saturated with 45mm primes, with Panasonic selling the macros and Oly looking to sell a great many portrait lenses, you're telling me Panasonic wants to sell an even more expensive one that combines all of these features? How can you justify a big enough demand, seriously, when probably every serious m4/3 buyer probably has a native 45mm prime already, and the non-serious ones probably won't pay $2k?

 

[ziggy]

It makes sense for Panasonic to create a $2000 lens and a $500 lens, but not $2000 and $1000.

What happens if the lens is targeted at the pro where performance and reliability is more important than price? After all the camera is a pro camera, not the usual consumer model.

 

[cannedpineapples]

Then the qn u need to ask (as should any good product manager) is this: is $500 * many many lenses sold a better decision, or $2000 * much fewer?

I'm guessing not enough pros are using m43 as their primary camera to justify this.

 

[loneWolff]

Then the qn u need to ask (as should any good product manager) is this: is $500 * many many lenses sold a better decision, or $2000 * much fewer?

I'm guessing not enough pros are using m43 as their primary camera to justify this.

Sometimes a 2k lens doesn't mean it has to sell well but meant to showcase it's technology superior.
Of course that technology will trickle down to the consumer many months later.
Hint: Canon 1200/F5.6L USM

 

[Oly5050]

Sometimes a 2k lens doesn't mean it has to sell well but meant to showcase it's technology superior.
Of course that technology will trickle down to the consumer many months later.
Hint: Canon 1200/F5.6L USM

Haha. At 5.6, its a lousy lens to me. It can only be used in brightest of days!!

 

[Oly5050]

I think what he meant is pancakes are harder to design than to eat.
Keeping to Leica standard probably means something inside the pancake is not edible to the people in the red dot.
Oly 45 is not a macro lens, so it won't have the sharp everything nature of a macro (Doesn't mean I won't get one)

I tot macro lens tend to hv very close focusing distance? At least for oly, all lenses hv high resolving power so i consider macros to hv close focus capability

 

[bousozoku]

Haha. At 5.6, its a lousy lens to me. It can only be used in brightest of days!!

At 1200mm, it can capture the brightest of moons.

 

[ziggy]

Haha. At 5.6, its a lousy lens to me. It can only be used in brightest of days!!

Strange, I have seen great shots taken at 1200mm f5.6 (EOS1DMk3 + 600mmf4 + 1.4xTC) in dull light under shades.

 

[ziggy]

Then the qn u need to ask (as should any good product manager) is this: is $500 * many many lenses sold a better decision, or $2000 * much fewer?

I'm guessing not enough pros are using m43 as their primary camera to justify this.

Then I guess that a Panny 25mm f1.4 at $800+ will not sell well as you can buy a 20mm f1.7 for <$600. There should be plenty of stocks then. Nothing is ever about just price alone.

 

[cannedpineapples]

Indeed. It is not about price. But the more expensive one here (PL25 vs 20mm) is a different focal length, and faster.

This rumour is talking about a similar focal length, faster, smaller, and being a specialist lens in that it is also macro. It is basically PL45 2.0.

PL's "showcase" product could end up casting their own (already expensive) PL45 in a very bad light. In the end? Consumers can't afford the "showcase" product, and don't want to buy the PL45 because it looks bad.

Lose-lose for PL. Yay!

 

[Ouverture]

Indeed. It is not about price. But the more expensive one here (PL25 vs 20mm) is a different focal length, and faster.

This rumour is talking about a similar focal length, faster, smaller, and being a specialist lens in that it is also macro. It is basically PL45 2.0.

PL's "showcase" product could end up casting their own (already expensive) PL45 in a very bad light. In the end? Consumers can't afford the "showcase" product, and don't want to buy the PL45 because it looks bad.

Lose-lose for PL. Yay!

When you have established a certain branding , you will tend to upsell your product even though deep down the specs, you are no different from any product in the market. (eg see how dirt cheap HP touchpad can sell at lelong $129 while Apple ipad sells for 6-7x more)

Leica and Zeiss have long heritage in making good glass and they are still making them. So if anyone wants to associate with them and put their branding on their own product, the price must go up. Anyway even if these products are not as good as the actual glass makers themselves, its good enough for most people and cost 10times lesser as well.

How many people could actually own some exortic Leica and Zeiss lenses? Probably some famous photographers who earn big bucks from their work or many doctors and lawyers out there with lots of cash and lots of free time for photography.

Its like Canon L glass. Optically some of their non L glass can perform same or even better at times, including built quality. But oncr it has a red ring, the price goes up 2-3 times more but people still are crazy for them.

So its all comes back to the word branding.

 

[ageha]

From past interviews with panasonic VIPs we are made aware that panasonic is looking to improve on:

1) sensor -- probably global shutter
2) EVF -- higher resolution for manual focus, more responsive(live) for video
3) Faster AF -- maybe hybrid contrast and phase for better video
4) Better LCD -- this they out-source from Epson!

Seriously it would be a wet dream if all 4 above is met in the GFX1 but i believe it is too soon for 1)global shutter as they should introduce this first in their flagship GH3 later if we are lucky.

In terms of a better sensor at high ISO, I believe the G3 had hit a wall for further improvement with the present sensor tech. Even APS-C had hit a wall in terms of sensitivity. Somehow they need to adapt either BSI or Quantum dot(quantum film) tech to m43 size sensor(without sensor overheating problems) or introduce their newly patented faveon type array sensor to improve(only incrementally) on things.

Improvements from 2) to 4) will force their hands for a faster crunching chipset. Some people might speculate here that if the chipset is fast enough especially with global shutter, they can actually do in camera image stacking to improve IQ... Definitely in camera NR will be improved along with burst mode and (support for a ton of filters?)...

For more compactness an OLED LCD that is articulating as well? But this depend on Espon tech so cannot be too hopeful.

Well dreaming and fantasizing is free and it will be interesting to see if some of these expectations will be met.

What say U?

I think you got something wrong. Panasonic didn't team up with Epson for the LCD, they did that for the EVF!

Personally I'm looking forward to get Peaking in a Panasonic body.

 

[cannedpineapples]

When you have established a certain branding , you will tend to upsell your product even though deep down the specs, you are no different from any product in the market. (eg see how dirt cheap HP touchpad can sell at lelong $129 while Apple ipad sells for 6-7x more)

Leica and Zeiss have long heritage in making good glass and they are still making them. So if anyone wants to associate with them and put their branding on their own product, the price must go up. Anyway even if these products are not as good as the actual glass makers themselves, its good enough for most people and cost 10times lesser as well.

How many people could actually own some exortic Leica and Zeiss lenses? Probably some famous photographers who earn big bucks from their work or many doctors and lawyers out there with lots of cash and lots of free time for photography.

Its like Canon L glass. Optically some of their non L glass can perform same or even better at times, including built quality. But oncr it has a red ring, the price goes up 2-3 times more but people still are crazy for them.

So its all comes back to the word branding.

don't get me wrong. I love branding. All I'm saying is that to kill the PL45 by coming up with PL45 2.0 is not the right way to brand. In fact, it's the worst way to do it. You destroy the brand of the PL45 1.0 overnight!

 

[cannedpineapples]

PS, better get back to talking abt GFX1, sometimes threads randomly get deleted or closed or members deregistered in this 4/3 subforum...

 

[tangoinquestion]

will be good if they indeed retain the L1's styling (retro rangefinder looks) and operation (manual shutter and aperture controls) and of course the G3 sensor (or better)... but for manual aperture control, they will have to redo some of the existing lenses (do any of the m43 lenses come with aperture control rings on the lens?)