Newcomer...

[The_Cheat]

Don't worried too much of the meter, i don't use battery in any of my camera most of the time (except my digital p&s). I usually carry handheld spotmeter along but i fond of using my eyes & brain. Just matters of practise.

Films have greater latitude vs slide (& digital IMO), so they are more forgiving in term of exposure accuracy.

Ah! The eye! The ultimate light meter!
Have to resort to that when mi spotmeter went bonkers on me, and always ended up over-exposing the film (for safety) and having lengthy session of darkroom printing to get the image out...

Frankly, spotmeter is the way to go. But given the thread-starter's budget, the spotmeter is really out of the question.

 

[The_Cheat]

That why I was confused... How does the meter affect a RF? Since everything is already manual? And I don't think they had a auto focus override then. Or does the meter suggests to you the correct aperature and shutter speed in the range finder or somewhere and you decide if you want to follow it at all?

The meter tells you what is the recommended exposure. In a digital p&s, the meter is so well hidden that once you press on the shutter, the camera determine everything for you, producing often an okay picture. In manual system, the meter can either be built in with the shutter or aperture control, or give you a warning when your adjustment of aperture and shutter speed bring you out of the threshold of the recommended exposure. How this is done is really dependent on which camera you are using. It's a part of camera that is quite variable. The principle behind it are more or less similar though.

Frankly, it would be good if someone with large RF collection (at the budget range) would offer to meet up with you to explain your concern in person. While it may look complicated in the forum, it is really not that confusing over a cup of kopi.

 

[CZJena]

Bravesoul, for your tiny budget of SGD100, there is nothing much left (except perhaps those left a few breathes before termination), you can try zorki & 50mm Industar, but don't expect control/consistency/reliability (i never say its unworkable).

Trust me bros, get something more moderate in range of 600+ for RF body, 600+ for standard lens is a good start. Its painful but save u long term nightmares,worries and equipment research madness. Unless you want to become a collector, trader or museum guy.

Enjoy the Art craft rather than technical aspect of it.

FYI, manual camera (be it slr or rf) theres mainly 5 elements of control for you to playaround with:
1. aperture
2. shutter speed
3. film speed
4. focal length (lens)
5. focus
Out of these 5, 3 are to do with exposure, its tricky but after awhile things just got easier & fun when you into subconscious level.

As beginner, don't just blame your camera for the lousy, the evil may comes from your LPL (local photo lab).

 

[student]

That why I was confused... How does the meter affect a RF? Since everything is already manual? And I don't think they had a auto focus override then. Or does the meter suggests to you the correct aperature and shutter speed in the range finder or somewhere and you decide if you want to follow it at all?

You will need a lot more than just a discussion here in the forum.

For the time being, remember that "manual" means that you adjust everything - such as film speed, aperture, shutter speed, and focussing. But what aperture and shutter speed to use? How much light do you need for the film which you set a specific ISO? You need a meter - whether a built in meter or an external one. A meter only tells you about the lighting condition on the scene before you. It does not tell you what shutter speed and aperture you need. For that you will have to understand what different apertures will do to your image etc. Like wise for shutter speed. Based on what your requirements are, you chose the aperture and shutter speed, using the measurement of the light meter as an initial guide.

 

[alternatve]

The $100 budget would be because of Karen Nakamura and her website (www.photoethnography.com). I am willing to fork out more, but it would have to wait a around 3-4 months when I work through the holidays. Thus my $100 budget to get a RF I can use now to cover the basics. It's kinda hard to follow all the information about range, aperature, shuttle speed, etcetc with nothing to use...

 

[CZJena]

The $100 budget would be because of Karen Nakamura and her website (www.photoethnography.com). I am willing to fork out more, but it would have to wait a around 3-4 months when I work through the holidays. Thus my $100 budget to get a RF I can use now to cover the basics. It's kinda hard to follow all the information about range, aperature, shuttle speed, etcetc with nothing to use...

Another things why i say my bravesoul, RF don't usually (except at premium price) give you lenses longer than 135mm, or shorter than 28mm. After many years of experience, your standard lens will be your precious wife. Only consider leaf-shutter type if you can comfortable with not-able-to-change lens (less going for MF).

 

[alternatve]

Another things why i say my bravesoul, RF don't usually (except at premium price) give you lenses longer than 135mm, or shorter than 28mm. After many years of experience, your standard lens will be your precious wife. Only consider leaf-shutter type if you can comfortable with not-able-to-change lens (less going for MF).

It seems that I have a nickname now. ^^ I see. Why only leaf shutters for fixed lens models? I know that the Yashica GTN an example of this... My many questions are due to my inexperience, so please be understanding.

 

[CZJena]

It seems that I have a nickname now. ^^ I see. Why only leaf shutters for fixed lens models? I know that the Yashica GTN an example of this... My many questions are due to my inexperience, so please be understanding.

its pertaining to karen-nakamura's recommendation for canorets. The leaf shutter type unlike normal focal (or vertical) shutter, eg. of cams like canoret, vitessa, bessa, some zeiss-ikon, retina (& olden P&S) has leaf-shutter built into the lens (and not into the cam body). There are numerous advantages of leaf-shutter. Typical focal type shutter cams are Leica, canon, contax, kiev, zorki, konica, yashica etc.

Leaf-shutters type advantages:
1. sync in all speed with flashbulb
2. quiet(er)
3. more accurate (controversal)

 

[The_Cheat]

its pertaining to karen-nakamura's recommendation for canorets. The leaf shutter type unlike normal focal (or vertical) shutter, eg. of cams like canoret, vitessa, bessa, some zeiss-ikon, retina (& olden P&S) has leaf-shutter built into the lens (and not into the cam body). There are numerous advantages of leaf-shutter. Typical focal type shutter cams are Leica, canon, contax, kiev, zorki, konica, yashica etc.

Leaf-shutters type advantages:
1. sync in all speed with flashbulb
2. quiet(er)
3. more accurate (controversal)

Haha~! You're throwing him at the deep end of the pool man! :bsmilie:

For simplicity sake, just know that there are two popular types of shutter used in camera: leaf and focal-plane. As for the pros and cons, learn about it when you have a better idea of exposure first.

 

[CZJena]

Haha~! You're throwing him at the deep end of the pool man! :bsmilie:

For simplicity sake, just know that there are two popular types of shutter used in camera: leaf and focal-plane. As for the pros and cons, learn about it when you have a better idea of exposure first.

;p Don't you see this guy just like that pink color new born rat, ready to push into corner and bump around, kick and alive on road to cameratography. gd nite

 

[alternatve]

Lol, I didn't know I was a cute little baby rat... Haha, though I've certainly grown up a lot since.

 

[chiif]

Mr Alternatve,

I admire you, you work for what you want. I have seen some young guys (I presume you are 19+ ~ 20 years old) who just open their mouth and tell their parents that they want Xbox360, PS3, Ipods, iMacs, Macbooks etc... and their parents just go to the shop with them, sign and pick the items up...

Good to know nowadays, there are still aspiring young man like you.

To make things easier for us to help you, just let us know what is the maximum dollar that you can stretch. Face it... no one will sell you a working manual SLR or RF camera + lens with meter working, nice cosmetic, no physical abuse for S$100. If there are, probably he is a santa claus. (I met one last week who sold me a Nikon Nurvis APS camera for S$17, Thanks Samual... if u are reading).

I bought myself a Yashica MG-1 & an Olympus SP at S$40 each. Both meter not working, but still can shoot at fix shuttle speed for the MG-1 without battries. But it's not for beginners who want to pick up photography seriously with so much things to learn.

Something to share... I started learning about photography at 14 using my father's FE2. Though the years, I have never bought myself a SLR or RF camera. Until very recently I brought in the entire range of Cosina/Voigtlander product range and I bought myself a D60 for product shots. I can't say I am a good photographer, but I learn enough to make sure my shots turn out presentable.

So, the bottomline is:
1. Get something that is working and durable.
2. Set a realistic budget. For a start, I would say, $250 for a working FM2 body and $80 for a 35 or 50mm (might not be Nikon) lens.

If you just want to learn about shuttle-speed, aperture, focusing, I can lend you my Nikon FE2 with a 35mm lens for a few weeks. Then you can decide whether you want to get a SLR or stretch a little bit more to get a M6.

Regards,
Chii Fei

 

[alternatve]

Dear Sir,
You are too kind to me. Truth be told, I want to fund this passion of mine because it is my passion, not my parents, thus I feel that to have true ownership of this hobby, I need to obtain the equipment myself. This is also a good way to stop me from overbuying. Furthermore, what with high polytechnic fees and university looming on the horizon, my parents already have a big burden to shoulder. I don't want to make it any heavier.

Also I can't possibly accept your offer of loaning me your SLR system because I'm a new member of this forum and don't know you well. I am very grateful for your generous offer and for being so helpful in my journey on this new road. I will look for and purchase a camera to suit my needs, failing which, I will do without and read up on photography in the meantime.

Lastly, I am 18 this year, and have started to like classic cameras since I was 14. So my passion has been running for a few years already!

Cheers,
Samuel

 

[csisfun]

Dear Sir,
You are too kind to me. Truth be told, I want to fund this passion of mine because it is my passion, not my parents, thus I feel that to have true ownership of this hobby, I need to obtain the equipment myself. This is also a good way to stop me from overbuying. Furthermore, what with high polytechnic fees and university looming on the horizon, my parents already have a big burden to shoulder. I don't want to make it any heavier.

Also I can't possibly accept your offer of loaning me your SLR system because I'm a new member of this forum and don't know you well. I am very grateful for your generous offer and for being so helpful in my journey on this new road. I will look for and purchase a camera to suit my needs, failing which, I will do without and read up on photography in the meantime.

Lastly, I am 18 this year, and have started to like classic cameras since I was 14. So my passion has been running for a few years already!

Cheers,
Samuel

Woah! That's very rare, I hardly see any people around that age liking classic cameras. Everyone has gone digital, apparently. Anyway, the Zorki 4 is a great camera, and I have one with two lenses. One thing for sure, it isn't a beginner's camera. It's fiddly, inaccurate and weird. What would be great for you is a digital camera, it's great to learn on that platform, then progress to film. Of course, it's not cheap. An alternative would be the SLR, you can buy one very cheaply these days, just get anything that suits your basic requirements. A meter in-camera would be quite important, since you don't really have a clue to metering without one yet... Though the problem with some old cameras is that their meters are off.

A Nikon FM2 would be great, there are cheaper alternatives to it, like the Minolta X range of SLRs, Canon's SLRs, etc... they all work equally well.

 

[bahibo]

Me also 18 , use RF pass down by my father and uncle and bessa R with money earn by myself.
Alternatve : Way to go man ! One want to fly have to fly with his own wings.

Special offer for u Bahibo super sales :

Bessa R body - 350 - come free with Russian Jupiter 8.

Skopar 35mm 2.5 - 300$ if got people buy the body - condition 10.

Set only 650 which include

-Bessa R body
-Skopar 35mm 2.5 with box and manual
-Jupiter 8 50mm with leather lens case.
- Nikon everready case

Special offer : Buy the set u got one free gift ho ho ho ho

Special Zorki 5 modified by someone i dont know u dont know.
Refer to my thread : http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=236211
And the historical story behind it : http://www.cameraquest.com/fakerusk.htm

 

[alternatve]

It's settled then, I'll buy the Bessa R from you. As for the Skopar lens, I think I'll have to give it a miss even though it's such a good deal... I still need to get miscellaneous stuff like a dry box and basic cleaning equipment. I want my cameras to live in comfort... ^^

 

[CZJena]

It's settled then, I'll buy the Bessa R from you. As for the Skopar lens, I think I'll have to give it a miss even though it's such a good deal... I still need to get miscellaneous stuff like a dry box and basic cleaning equipment. I want my cameras to live in comfort... ^^

FYI jupiter lens don't work optimally (compatibility) with leica/canon/bessa type ... something inherently wrong to do with the mount register.

 

[alternatve]

Well, it was too good to be true... Is it a serious defect or just a minor one?

 

[The_Cheat]

FYI jupiter lens don't work optimally (compatibility) with leica/canon/bessa type ... something inherently wrong to do with the mount register.

Optimal is very subjective lor. It's not optimal to use CZ lenses for Canon SLR as well (via CY mount adapter), but lots of people are happily using them anyway.

Alternative, don't worry about this optimal thing. You can still take good picture with the jupitar lens, and more importantly, you can learn about exposure using it too. Jupitar lenses are pretty sharp too, so no worries.

For reading interest: Jupiter 8 vs Elmer 50/3.5

 

[alternatve]

It's settled then, I'll buy the Bessa R from you. As for the Skopar lens, I think I'll have to give it a miss even though it's such a good deal... I still need to get miscellaneous stuff like a dry box and basic cleaning equipment. I want my cameras to live in comfort... ^^

I must take back my words here. I am keen on purchasing the RF, but I let my keenness overtake logic. I will want to handle the camera and lens before I make a final decision. Sorry for the misunderstanding Bahibo...